Andrew Ritchie pattern tri-folders
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Andrew Ritchie pattern tri-folders
Back in March, in answer to the inquiry "why isn't the Brompton ever copied?", I pointed to the 3sixty, B-bike, Backer Gravity, Beiou, Burke 20, Camp Royal, Chedech, Cigna, Crosshead, Dahon Curl, Element Pikes, Flamingo, Fova, Groo M3, Iruka, Java, Jcat, Kreuz, La Bici, MIT, Neo, Pico, Sanye, South Point, United Trifold, Viking X and Week 8 folders - plus all those titanium jobs - that are based on or inspired by the Andrew Ritchie 'tri-fold' design.
I'm 16,000 km away from most of these and honestly don't know if they come out of five factories with different decals or 29 unique manufacturing operations. Are some of them double counted under brand & model name? Don't know. Anyway, I was surfing around over the weekend and found more Andrew Ritchie pattern folders labeled Aceoffix, Aleoca, Alps, Billiton, Crius, Mobot and Movebike.
At some point it might be easier to list SE Asian bicycle manufacturers that don't build an Andrew Ritchie pattern folder!
Anyway, Brompton's new lightweight model has a 4-speed freehub - Billiton has a 7-speed.
Mobot is offering from the factory a 3 cog X 3-speed Sturmey drivetrain.
United Trifold's top offering features a Shimano Alfine 11-speed hub gear and disc brakes.
Dahon is showing off an E-Curl with disc brakes - and what looks like some chunky, e-bike rated 305s.
"The best defense against copying is innovation.” Will Butler-Adams
I'm 16,000 km away from most of these and honestly don't know if they come out of five factories with different decals or 29 unique manufacturing operations. Are some of them double counted under brand & model name? Don't know. Anyway, I was surfing around over the weekend and found more Andrew Ritchie pattern folders labeled Aceoffix, Aleoca, Alps, Billiton, Crius, Mobot and Movebike.
At some point it might be easier to list SE Asian bicycle manufacturers that don't build an Andrew Ritchie pattern folder!
Anyway, Brompton's new lightweight model has a 4-speed freehub - Billiton has a 7-speed.
Mobot is offering from the factory a 3 cog X 3-speed Sturmey drivetrain.
United Trifold's top offering features a Shimano Alfine 11-speed hub gear and disc brakes.
Dahon is showing off an E-Curl with disc brakes - and what looks like some chunky, e-bike rated 305s.
"The best defense against copying is innovation.” Will Butler-Adams
Last edited by tcs; 12-13-21 at 09:36 AM.
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The question was rather: "Why aren't there legal and cheaper Brompton-like folders in the West — where, unlike Asia, just selling a copycat will land you in court and possibly in jail?"
The answer was: The market is too small to justify designing a frame that would be different enough to pass legal muster.
Too bad, because a lot of people could use a Brompton-like compact folder for the 2-3km they have beetwen their home/office and the nearest station but can't/aren't willing to spend the money required to buy a Brompton.
https://www.farrer.co.uk/news-and-in...-not-over-yet/
The answer was: The market is too small to justify designing a frame that would be different enough to pass legal muster.
Too bad, because a lot of people could use a Brompton-like compact folder for the 2-3km they have beetwen their home/office and the nearest station but can't/aren't willing to spend the money required to buy a Brompton.
https://www.farrer.co.uk/news-and-in...-not-over-yet/
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Does anyone make a 20" version and, without QR-disc brakes?
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https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-b...here-more.html
What March, 2021 thread were you thinking of?
Last edited by tcs; 12-13-21 at 12:29 PM.
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BTW, "The case will now return to the Belgian court for a judgment..." What ever happened with this?
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I didn't keep the URL.
Appparently, the legal procedure is still ongoing.
The Curl doesn't cut it:
Appparently, the legal procedure is still ongoing.
The Curl doesn't cut it:
- No carrier block in the front (backpack, yuck)
- Not much cheaper than a Brompton; €$500-800 is what those people are willing to spend, not more
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Dahon can't even make up its mind (4/7/8 gear hub).
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They could start by making it half the price of a Brompton. Then some people who find the Brompton useful but too expensive might take a look (if they can actually find it in a store; Dahon is very badly distributed in Europe.)
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Even though I live nearer to the source of these bikes and have easy access to them from the local market, I really can't be bothered to buy into the hype of owning one.
A bi-fold really does the same thing getting from A-B via multi-modal transport.
The ease of pushing after fold is really over rated as the Bi-fold pushes even easier (and even my 8 and 10yr old sons do it by themselves )
I don't even buy into the front carrier block "advantage", since many bi-fold model have them too (esp the 20" models) and I don't even know what the B owners carry in them since its really a 10-40km ride on park connectors here. They don't need to carry work materials, cargo, tools, food, etc... so what we have here are B-riders with fancy front bags just for the sake of it (and looking the part).
So nothing really lost for people in EU or US with access to these B-copies, just get a decent bi-fold and enjoy riding.
A bi-fold really does the same thing getting from A-B via multi-modal transport.
The ease of pushing after fold is really over rated as the Bi-fold pushes even easier (and even my 8 and 10yr old sons do it by themselves )
I don't even buy into the front carrier block "advantage", since many bi-fold model have them too (esp the 20" models) and I don't even know what the B owners carry in them since its really a 10-40km ride on park connectors here. They don't need to carry work materials, cargo, tools, food, etc... so what we have here are B-riders with fancy front bags just for the sake of it (and looking the part).
So nothing really lost for people in EU or US with access to these B-copies, just get a decent bi-fold and enjoy riding.
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So nearly all bikes in the world add the weight to the bars/stem. The weight adds inertia to the steering axis, slowing down the handling, and counteracting the accentuated wheel flop.
Winfried is perhaps a lost cause, but everybody else go look at touring bikes: the front dunnage is attached to the bars and forks - like the Curl.
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Yep. Even going back to the days of the Puch Pic-Nic and Raleigh Twenty, on through the Bickerton to the Dahon and it's many, many, many copies, the bifold seem to be the optimum design compromise for most of the world's folding bicycle riders.
That said, I still find the Asian explosion of Andrew Ritchie pattern folder models notable.
That said, I still find the Asian explosion of Andrew Ritchie pattern folder models notable.
#13
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#14
Schwinnasaur
Even though I live nearer to the source of these bikes and have easy access to them from the local market, I really can't be bothered to buy into the hype of owning one.
A bi-fold really does the same thing getting from A-B via multi-modal transport.
The ease of pushing after fold is really over rated as the Bi-fold pushes even easier (and even my 8 and 10yr old sons do it by themselves )
I don't even buy into the front carrier block "advantage", since many bi-fold model have them too (esp the 20" models) and I don't even know what the B owners carry in them since its really a 10-40km ride on park connectors here. They don't need to carry work materials, cargo, tools, food, etc... so what we have here are B-riders with fancy front bags just for the sake of it (and looking the part).
So nothing really lost for people in EU or US with access to these B-copies, just get a decent bi-fold and enjoy riding.
A bi-fold really does the same thing getting from A-B via multi-modal transport.
The ease of pushing after fold is really over rated as the Bi-fold pushes even easier (and even my 8 and 10yr old sons do it by themselves )
I don't even buy into the front carrier block "advantage", since many bi-fold model have them too (esp the 20" models) and I don't even know what the B owners carry in them since its really a 10-40km ride on park connectors here. They don't need to carry work materials, cargo, tools, food, etc... so what we have here are B-riders with fancy front bags just for the sake of it (and looking the part).
So nothing really lost for people in EU or US with access to these B-copies, just get a decent bi-fold and enjoy riding.
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Of course adding weight to the front of a bike affects steering. The steering head of bicycles is angled, so when the bars are turned the front end drops - this is known by the inelegant name of 'wheel flop'. Adding weight has the effect of speeding up the handling by accentuating wheel flop.
So nearly all bikes in the world add the weight to the bars/stem. The weight adds inertia to the steering axis, slowing down the handling, and counteracting the accentuated wheel flop.
Winfried is perhaps a lost cause, but everybody else go look at touring bikes: the front dunnage is attached to the bars and forks - like the Curl.
So nearly all bikes in the world add the weight to the bars/stem. The weight adds inertia to the steering axis, slowing down the handling, and counteracting the accentuated wheel flop.
Winfried is perhaps a lost cause, but everybody else go look at touring bikes: the front dunnage is attached to the bars and forks - like the Curl.
The comparison with a touring bike with big wheels isn't valid because on such bikes its possible to have rear big rear pannier and the front bag is only for lightweight small objects.
On most folding bikes with small wheels, its not possible to use rear pannier because they will be hit by the heels when pedaling so with he Brompton the front bag is the main bag and is often heavily loaded (the BIrdy folding rear rack is an exception).
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If the luggage-truss (or whatever Brompton calls their system) was better than a fork-supported rack, then specialty loaded-touring bicycles would be using them. I use a fork-supported rack on my 20" bi-folder, instead of a luggage-truss, for several reasons. The rack has a much higher weight-capacity. The rack keeps the weight lower. The rack doesn't preclude the use of drop-handlebars.
As for rear-panniers working with a folding bicycle, some people have had success with this, some haven't. There are a couple of anecdotes of the former, posted in another thread.
As for rear-panniers working with a folding bicycle, some people have had success with this, some haven't. There are a couple of anecdotes of the former, posted in another thread.
#17
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Even though I previously expressed interest, regarding tri-fold bicycles, in this thread, I really am not interested, for the same reasons that Pinholecam cited. For me, a properly-equipped (CrMo f/f with drop-bars) 20" bi-folder is better than any tri-folder.
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Like the very popular Tern GSD, several Riese & Müller bikes, several Moulton bikes, the latest Moustache cargo, several Yuba cargo bikes... impossible to list them all.
#19
Schwinnasaur
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There are many touring and cargo bikes that have a rack (or have mounting points for an optional rack) mounted on the front of their frame!
Like the very popular Tern GSD, several Riese & Müller bikes, several Moulton bikes, the latest Moustache cargo, several Yuba cargo bikes... impossible to list them all.
Like the very popular Tern GSD, several Riese & Müller bikes, several Moulton bikes, the latest Moustache cargo, several Yuba cargo bikes... impossible to list them all.
#21
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Huh? You are omitting the first part of my sentence, the part which qualifies it as my own preference, and then trying to question me about a notion which I never made.
#22
Schwinnasaur
I did not quote the part about front rack placement, but that stikes me wrong as well. For front carry, support from the frame works better for smaller wheel bikes (16 and 20 inch). It should go without saying that I am posting my opinions.
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Most Moulton bikes have frame mounting points for a front rack.
Moulton has two types of front rack, one for a bag:
And one for front pannier:
Moulton has two types of front rack, one for a bag:
And one for front pannier:
Last edited by Jipe; 12-23-21 at 11:27 PM.
#25
Schwinnasaur
No, I would call that a bi-fold with an extra hinge. The ideal would be not having a hinge in the main beam or triangle (if there is one). If you look at the bicycle as a structure, the wheels are its supports. The bi-fold is like a beam spanning wheel to wheel with a hinge in the middle. Structurally, that is the worst spot. For cost of production and practicality, it may be the best spot. Can you overcome that shortcoming? Yes. The only folder I had that was a bi-fold that was stiff was the Raleigh 20. it was way heavy, had a huge fold, and it had an antique threading system. I had had two Dahons. Both were relatively cheap and both way too flexy. I had two Moultons. I liked them, but they are not folders. On balance, I do like front wheel shocks (just my opinion but too much compromise). My current 20" bike is a Xootr Swift. I love the ride, but the fold is huge. That is its only downside. Later this year I will try another folder, maybe a bi-fold.