msu2001la

Ultegra R8100 was released last August, so coming up on 1 year. Just scanning big bike brand websites, it looks like most now list carbon road bike models with Ultegra R8100 (Di2 only) and a few also have models with mechanical 11sp Ultegra R8000.

Does anyone know if manufacturers will continue selling new bikes with R8000 mechanical in the future alongside R8100? Or is the assumption that future "Ultegra" models will just be Di2 only R8100? From an OE spec perspective, is R8000 now redundant with R7000 105 filling that 11sp mechanical/hydro price point? I know Shimano will keep making R8000 for the foreseeable future, I guess I'm just wondering how much longer we will see it as a spec level on new bike builds.

Curious to hear thoughts.

Andy Somnifac 

Until there's no longer a mechanical option available to the companies to put on the bikes.
It's unlikely you would need to worry about parts for a long time. I'm still (mostly) on 10s stuff from SRAM and I have no problem keeping it running. Chains and cassettes are still easy enough to find and they're WAY older than R8000 stuff.

msu2001la

I'm not worried about replacement parts availability. I get that Shimano will keep making R8000 for a while and parts will be available for a long time.

I'm mostly just curious if manufacturers will still have bike builds with mechancial Ultegra, which on a carbon frame road bike seems to be roughly $3700-$4500 price range. The Di2 R8100 bikes all seem to be $5k+. 105 is also 11sp mechanical, so I'm wondering if bike manufactures will target that as the top-tier mechanical groupset, and everything above it is either AXS or Di2?

I can see some pushback from buyers looking at a $4000 bike and seeing that it comes with an "obsolete" 11sp Ultegra groupset. On the other hand, the "latest" 105 groupset is 11sp mechanical, which would be totally fine on a $2500-$3500 bike.

PeteHski

If Ultegra 8000 was obsolete, then so would 105 7000 as they are of the same generation. What would probably make Ultegra 8000 obsolete is a new Di2 version of 105, equivalent to SRAM Rival. Then I imagine mechanical gearing would simply disappear from all bikes with 105 or above groups. I'm just guessing, but it seems like the logical progression to me.

Troul 

i would expect the 11sp mech to go away in favor of 12sp mech. Same for e shifting.

oris

I think we all see the push to electronic shifting becoming the norm as is the ever increasing cost of bikes and parts.

IMO Ultegra R8000 11s still has it's place but should be in that $3500 mark. You're seeing SRAM Rival AXS in the $4000-$4500 range already; it's hard to overlook seeing pricing like this below. SRAM vs. Shimano aside, for $300 more, why would you want to pass wireless electronic shifting.

Iride01 

It'll eventually be a future lower tier group. Renamed with new part numbers and made with less expensive materials where possible and a little less precise tolerances so manufacturing costs won't be as high.

Troul 

Might just not be what a person wants.

aliasfox

Less expensive materials and lower tolerances - sounds like a new group to me.

Iride01 

Because it is a new group. As I said, Shimano moves those designs from DuraAce and Ultegra down to the lower tiers. Not all of them make it to the lower tiers like 105, Tiagra, Sora and others, but all of those tiers have elements of previous DuraAce and Ultegra groups.

I do expect 11 speed Ultegra to disappear though. And I don't expect 105 to stay 11 speed nor Tiagra to stay 10 speed. When who can say. Besides maybe Shimano.

Psimet2001 

Ugh - it's all a crap shoot right now. Sure Shimano listed the new groups last year but even up to today has not had very many groups available. Almost all of them are going into the OE channel as well. We got a nice letter from Shimano earlier this year saying that they haven't been able to meet any of their production estimates or goals, nothing has changed or improved and in fact they were experiencing shutdowns in Chinese facilities that were responsible for making the new Ultegra and DA products. That as a result they would continue to only supply the new group in "group" form for the majority of the product sent out and that groups would be going OEM.

They also mentioned that they wouldn't be able to meet any date they had listed on the wholesale side and that was going to be true for the foreseeable future.

All that said they still had no problem announcing a "new" version of GRX even though we still can't get basic GRX parts and haven't been able to since the start of the pandemic.

The problem is that marketing and product development seemingly run in a completely different universe than manufacturing and supply chain logistics. so.... mechanical R8000 Ultegra parts will be available for a while....if they can ever get them made and supplied in decent numbers.

Shimano will move all electronic and push all mechanical systems to the lower tier in perpetuity though. So you will be able to get some sort of replacement shift level that will work for quite a while down the road but eventually it will be some no series version of it.

maybe...if they can get those parts made.

Racing Dan

It appears from the website R8000 is obsolete. However Shimano needs some product to fill the giant gap between R7000 and R8100.

datlas 

New bikes? I am thinking only another year or so. I am suspecting that 105 will be upgraded next year to 12 speed and that will be the "performance" level mechanical shifting groupset. The Ultegra and Dura-Ace level bikes will be 12 speed Di2.

malcala622

I just sold a complete R8000 groupset since I still have it on my Bianchi Intenso. I wanted DA9100 on my build.

I dont think R8000 will fully become obsolete just more difficult to obtain. It seems as though quantity released isnt the same as previous series.

I'm excited about riding DA9100 though.

msu2001la

Agreed. Yes, I was thinking new bike builds specifically. If there's a 12sp and/or Di2 version of 105 next year, I can't imagine any bike manufacturers would still spec 11sp Ultegra R8000, even if Shimano continues to offer it as a new groupset.

11sp Ultegra is probably my favorite groupset of all time, so this bums me out a bit. Di2 is cool and all, but the price jump is pretty big. 105 is fine too, and I'm sure the next gen 105 will be awesome, but mechanical Ultegra always seemed like the sweet spot for me.

I also love my 11sp mechanical GRX800 groupset and have a feeling days are numbered on that one for similar reasons. Not that anyone can buy GRX anything at the moment...

datlas 

I feel the same way, I just upgraded my Habanero from Ultegra 6700 to Ultegra R8000 and am very pleased. I am stuck with rim brakes for the duration so I accept that this may be the pinnacle of mechanical shifting and rim brakes. I do expect that parts will be around for quite some time, so not terribly worried about obsolescence.

PeteHski

105 R7000 is so close to Ultegra R8000 in performance that I don't really care. A few grams in weight and a more prestigious badge is all I see between them. For me 105 R7000 was my final fling with mechanical group sets. It works great, but I prefer electronic shifting now I've been spoilt by it.

Next gen 105 surely has to be 12-speed Di2, even though Shimano appear reluctant to admit it. They can't just ignore SRAM Rival and hope people will choose a new mechanical 105 over it. It's not going to happen IMO.

Darth Lefty 

Betcha that gap will be filled with 105 di2

Racing Dan

That would be nice, however i cant see mech 105 going anywhere on account of price. On the mtb side of things shimao has 12s mechanical all the from XTR to deore level. Id say we are likely to see 105, ultegra and possibly DA in a 12s mechanical configuration. But Im just guessing of course. Me, Im still on my trusty Tiagra 4700 with hydro brakes. Its great and im not going anywhere. I even hope it stays 10s to combat price hikes and maintain compatibility.

PeteHski

There's nothing to stop them retaining mechanical 11-speed 105 in the hierarchy alongside a brand new 12-speed Di2 105. The latter would simply fill the gap left open if mechanical Ultegra was discontinued. What I can't imagine is them retaining 11-speed mechanical Ultegra alongside 12-speed Di2 105.

So my prediction for their near future group hierarchy is:-

11-speed 105 R7000
12-speed 105 Di2
12-speed Ultegra Di2
12-speed DA Di2

The question mark for me is whether or not they offer 12-speed mechanical at all? I don't personally see much incentive for them on the road groups. I think it's a bit different on the mtb side given that it's nearly all 1x where 12-speed mechanical makes more sense on lower tier groups.

datlas 

Bigger question (and sorry for the hijack) but which of the above will still support rim brakes? I think mechanical shifting may outlive rim brake support, but it's not 100% clear just yet. I do believe they are still supporting them now, but next update I am thinking not.

Darth Lefty 

They don't though. M9050 is gone and M8050 is dying on the vine while 9100 and 8100 don't have Di2 versions. And that's all there was. SRAM is eating their lunch again.

With the idea of a "budget version" di2, I was remembering Athena

Edit - I somehow misread Racing Dan's post and my reply is refuting what it's agreeing with. Duh. Not deleting it since it got quoted

datlas 

I had no idea how much I need her.

Racing Dan

I honestly believe rim brakes will go the way of the dodo, soon. - as a general rule. Of course, rim brake bikes and components will remain in the market forever, to cater for an ever diminishing custom market. Im sure you can still get a centre pull or cantilever bike too, if you so wish. But no Deore or XT with anything but hydro brakes. - For good reason.

ZHVelo

I can't believe there is a 105 bike for $3'200. I bought my first road bike for EUR 1'100 with 105.