Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Cup & Cone to Sealed Bearings

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Cup & Cone to Sealed Bearings

Old 03-01-21, 12:35 PM
  #1  
Daytriker
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Vancouver Island, Western Canada
Posts: 34

Bikes: HP Velotechnik / Trident

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Cup & Cone to Sealed Bearings

I have a pair of brand new Weinmann 16 inch trailer wheels with cup & cone bearings. I would like to replace the cup & cones with sealed cartridge bearings & also be able to use the push button axle releases as found on many commercial trailers such as Burleys. I realize this is dependant on the availability of the correct size cartridge bearing to fit the hub but is this theoretically possible or do I need to rebuild the wheels with new hubs to accept the cartridge bearings? Also, if it is possible, would the new bearing replace the bearing cup or fit inside the cup? Thank you.
Daytriker is offline  
Old 03-01-21, 12:39 PM
  #2  
mack_turtle
n00b
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,397

Bikes: Surly Karate Monkey, Twin Six Standard Rando

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 428 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times in 273 Posts
are you a skilled machinist with access to equipment that can machine out the cones within tight enough tolerances to fit a cartridge bearing?

even if you do, it seems a bit silly. pack the bearings with good quality grease and set the pre-load carefully.
mack_turtle is offline  
Old 03-01-21, 12:43 PM
  #3  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,274

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6147 Post(s)
Liked 4,092 Times in 2,325 Posts
Originally Posted by Daytriker
I have a pair of brand new Weinmann 16 inch trailer wheels with cup & cone bearings. I would like to replace the cup & cones with sealed cartridge bearings & also be able to use the push button axle releases as found on many commercial trailers such as Burleys. I realize this is dependant on the availability of the correct size cartridge bearing to fit the hub but is this theoretically possible or do I need to rebuild the wheels with new hubs to accept the cartridge bearings? Also, if it is possible, would the new bearing replace the bearing cup or fit inside the cup? Thank you.
You will have to replace the hub. While you might be able to remove the cups from the hub, I doubt that the hub shell will be machined correctly for any commonly available cartridge bearing much less be able to press the bearing in. Replacing the hub will also mean replacing the spokes since hub flange dimensions aren’t standard.

It would be best to just use the wheel as is. Replacing the axle is fairly easy so converting to some kind of quick release is much less hassle than rebuilding the wheel.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!



cyccommute is offline  
Old 03-01-21, 01:03 PM
  #4  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times in 1,422 Posts
You can't just stick a sealed cartridge bearing in there. The cup and cone are part of the design.

If you want cartridge bearings you will need new hubs.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 03-01-21, 01:11 PM
  #5  
gsa103
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,401

Bikes: Bianchi Infinito (Celeste, of course)

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 754 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times in 77 Posts
Step 1: Sell your existing wheels.
Step 2: Buy the wheels you actually want.
Doing the conversion will involve new hubs, new spokes, and re-lacing the wheel. You might as well just buy new wheels and sell these since they're new.
gsa103 is offline  
Old 03-01-21, 02:05 PM
  #6  
RobertUI 
Monkey Boy
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Herndon, VA
Posts: 246

Bikes: '22 Surly Straggler, '15 Breezer Downtown EX, '19 Motobecane Record (fixie)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 53 Posts
FWIW, Those wheels look pretty new and in good serviceable condition. I may be alone here, but I for one still LOVE cup/cone bearings. They're incredibly easy to break down and clean, and super simple (and cheap) to service. In college (~1990) I rebuilt my hubs and bottom bracket after just about every heavy rainstorm. Unless there's a compelling need, I would just run those wheels, and service them until you have to replace them completely.
__________________
Artist | Musician | Bass Player
Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. (o.o)

Last edited by RobertUI; 03-01-21 at 02:05 PM. Reason: typo
RobertUI is offline  
Old 03-01-21, 02:46 PM
  #7  
Crankycrank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,649
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 835 Post(s)
Liked 1,053 Times in 739 Posts
I don't see much advantage of any kind with cartridge over cup and cone for trailer wheels. Yes you'll maybe get a little more mileage before needing service/replacement but hardly worth the trouble and expense of switching. No extra tools needed to switch out bearing balls.......if needed. Check the bearings every year, if the grease is still in place and not too dirty try it every 2 years then 3, etc.
Crankycrank is offline  
Old 03-01-21, 02:52 PM
  #8  
Bill Kapaun
Really Old Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 13,822

Bikes: 87 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1774 Post(s)
Liked 1,230 Times in 851 Posts
I'd keep the wheels.
Buy a tub of either synthetic or boat trailer bearing grease, if you ride "wet".
REPACK the hubs NOW. Clean out all the old "lube" to avoid any "possible" incompatibility issues with the new grease.
MANY factory hubs come with a minimal amount of grease and poor preload adjustment. Usually too tight.
Some appear to be a thin wax type lube that was sprayed on. Usually on the cheapest bikes.
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 03-02-21, 04:37 AM
  #9  
Geepig
Senior Member
 
Geepig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Eastern Poland
Posts: 743

Bikes: Romet Jubilat x 4, Wigry x 1, Turing x 1

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked 204 Times in 151 Posts
Assuming that one could find bearings that fitted and there was enough of a step on the inner cone or that the inner cone were removable, those bearings have to be suitable for axial and vertical loads - and not all are.

If I really loved those rims then I would consider investigating the possibilities, or finding another pair of hubs. For small wheels the hubs are often pretty standard in size because you are up against the limits of having to fit it between an axle and set of spokes. All my 24" wheels share the same length spokes, no matter whether they are for front, fixed, derailleur or coaster brake hubs, in steel or aluminium rims - and your hubs look pretty much the same size.
Geepig is offline  
Old 03-07-21, 08:31 PM
  #10  
Daytriker
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Vancouver Island, Western Canada
Posts: 34

Bikes: HP Velotechnik / Trident

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by mack_turtle
are you a skilled machinist with access to equipment that can machine out the cones within tight enough tolerances to fit a cartridge bearing?

even if you do, it seems a bit silly. pack the bearings with good quality grease and set the pre-load carefully.
Many years ago you used to be able to pop out the cups in wheel bearings. I am not sure with current hub designs if this is still possible.
The idea might seem silly to you but there is a good reason for wanting the change. The standard axle diameter on these is 3/8" & the diameter
on the push button axles in 1/2. " It is next to impossible to find a 3/8" diameter push button release so the next logical step is to find bearings that would take the 1/2" axle. As for selling these & buying new wheels that's a nice thought but Burley wants $65. each U.S. plus shipping, cdn. $ exchange & duty & taxes across the border. A little more than buying 2 bearings & axles if I can just replace them. There are videos on Youtube of people doing it but I suspect they are not a similar hub design.

Last edited by Daytriker; 03-07-21 at 10:25 PM.
Daytriker is offline  
Old 03-07-21, 08:41 PM
  #11  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 17,999

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Mongoose Tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder, Stewart 650B ATB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4171 Post(s)
Liked 3,791 Times in 2,270 Posts
I look at this from the trailer's view. What hub attachment design is the current trailer using. I note that there's no mention of what kind of trailer is involved. How the trailer holds the hubs will drive what hubs are applicable. Otherwise I like the other answers, once the method of trailer/wheel mounting is filtered for.

Some trailers have wheel upgrade options. If your trailer does I strongly suggest you consider them first. If you're making your own trailer then see post #2 Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
Andrew R Stewart is online now  
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
Old 03-07-21, 08:43 PM
  #12  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,767

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1958 Post(s)
Liked 2,932 Times in 1,489 Posts
Originally Posted by Daytriker
Many years ago you used to be able to pop out the cones in wheel bearings. I am not sure with current hub designs if this is still possible.
The idea might seem silly to you but there is a good reason for wanting the change. The standard axle diameter on these is 3/8" & the diameter
on the push button axles in 1/2. " It is next to impossible to find a 3/8" diameter push button release so the next logical step is to find bearings that would take the 1/2" axle. As for selling these & buying new wheels that's a nice thought but Burley wants $65. each U.S. plus shipping, cdn. $ exchange & duty & taxes across the border. A little more than buying 2 bearings & axles if I can just replace them. There are videos on Youtube of people doing it but I suspect they are not a similar hub design.
It's not the cones you'd be removing, it's the cups.
cxwrench is offline  
Old 03-07-21, 10:26 PM
  #13  
Daytriker
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Vancouver Island, Western Canada
Posts: 34

Bikes: HP Velotechnik / Trident

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thank you, Corrected.
Daytriker is offline  
Old 03-08-21, 12:31 AM
  #14  
Geepig
Senior Member
 
Geepig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Eastern Poland
Posts: 743

Bikes: Romet Jubilat x 4, Wigry x 1, Turing x 1

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked 204 Times in 151 Posts
Originally Posted by Daytriker
The standard axle diameter on these is 3/8" & the diameter
on the push button axles in 1/2. " It is next to impossible to find a 3/8" diameter push button release so the next logical step is to find bearings that would take the 1/2" axle.
Do you means something like these, as used for wheelchairs?
Geepig is offline  
Old 03-08-21, 11:02 AM
  #15  
Daytriker
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Vancouver Island, Western Canada
Posts: 34

Bikes: HP Velotechnik / Trident

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Yes. Exactly but hard to find in 3/8" diameter, so need to change the cups or what I am trying to do & use cartridge bearings for 1/2" diamter axles.
Daytriker is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.