AlgarveCycling

Your logic only kinda works if you ride slowly.

Anyway, reading this reminded me of a chap who used to join our circuit training back in the 90's. He used an MTB very similar to the one in your pic. Big, tall Dutch guy, strong as an ox. He'd cruise along with the groups, hanging in at 25mph. Then we'd attack, speed would go up to 30-37mph and he'd be dropped. We'd eventually lap him and he'd hang in again until the next acceleration. And so it would go.

Race? Yes, he entered quite a few of the low key sportive-type stuff. Got his Finisher Medals, happy chap. Never came close to being with the fast guys or girls though. If he had been on a road bike, he'd have done considerably better because he was fit and strong.

I race both road and MTB. There is an enormous difference between my Trek Madone SLR (8kg) road bike and my 29'er KTM Scarp Sonic XC MTB (9.2kg)

The difference in weight is only 1.2kg. Not huge, by any means. Running them both with a PSI suitable for road and restricting the Madone gearing to the MTB's top end, I'll still be a lot faster on the Trek. To tell anyone otherwise is just wrong. Unless you are a slower rider, where speed is low enough to not make much difference.

It's something you keep doing in your posts; attributing personal bias and ability and then generalising that your level or choice of equipment is applicable to all. It really isn't.

I'm not trying to belittle here either - I posted a 'like' on your posting in the racing threads after reading your TT experience recently. I thought you did really quite well on that bike, all things considered. You were definitely riding with a handicap on that machine; circa 1-3mph average on that course, I'm guessing. Look up those that finished with a 21/22mph average and you'll see where you might have finished with a faster bike - because the tools do help, despite your assertions to the contrary.

Your experience appears to be limited to those bikes you have posted up and for those two, yeah, I get it. They will slow you down and feel similar to a degree. I know, I borrowed a near 20yr old 10.5kg entry-level Bianchi in Belgium earlier this year and I was definitely slower on it than my own bikes on similar terrain. Noticeably. Heck, I was racing 9kg bikes in the 90's that felt faster than that Bianchi.

Mojo31

If you want to get faster, you just have to get aero. Do a search in "General Cycling" for "timtak." The dude has nailed it. If you emulate him you will get faster.

Follow beng1 for free booze.

SoSmellyAir

Second that. In fact, removing the skull and cross bones valve stem caps from both wheels on the silver bike alone would net a 0.2 mph gain.

terrymorse 

That Marin "mountain bike", with its rigid frame and fork, is essentially a road bike, but with fat tires and flat bars, so of course it's going to perform much as that low end yellow "road" bike does.

Modern mountain bikes have very little in common with that old Marin.

big john

I think you may just need to give it some more time. I've ridden with some strong guys switching from mtb to road. Road riding at speed is very different than riding trails.
It takes time to perfect your position and it takes time to learn how to go fast on the road and especially with a group.

There was an expert level mtb racer who did the shorter rides with the fast guys in my road club. He did pretty well but he was exceptional plus he had a super light XC bike.

beng1

Right, the person who started the thread, and I are both riding a road bike around 19-20mph average, that is slow, so I guess my logic is fine. No bike is going to get us up to the crazy speeds you are talking about between 25-40mph unless I can lose 20 or more years off my 60, or the guy who started the thread gets in good enough shape where he is averaging 23mph+ on the bikes he currently has. I am certainly not going to replace my $3 Huffy race bike with a $3000 to $10,000 TT bike so I can pick up 2mph and still be going slow. There are dozens of guys around my age I see riding in my area on many tens of thousands of dollars in bicycles and "kit" who can't average 20mph on a ride, and I am not going to be one of them, I will keep going slow for pocket-change, or keep training and pick up one or two mph for free and have fun while I am doing it.

big john

You averaged 19.5 on a 12 mile TT. While this is commendable it doesn't mean you average 20mph on a road ride. That would be more impressive.

How do you know the guys you see can't ride 20mph? You have to ride with someone for a while to see what they can and can't do.

And money? It always come back to money. I know you said you were poor but wouldn't you like to have a nice bike? Not because it would be faster, just to have it?
I'm not rich and live on social security, worked hard for 50 years. With bicycles I can have something nice for once. I'm not under any illusion that a pretty bike is going to make me fast but I enjoy having it. Actually I have 3 bikes now, down from 5.

beng1

So nobody is "impressive" unless they can average 20mph for some distance you decide on? How does that have any meaning to anyone but you? It doesn't.
I do not criticize people, I care about them. I care that they are being taken advantage of by being told they have to have certain things or spend a certain amount of money to enjoy cycling, which is not true at all. Nor is it true that anyone has to have newer or costly equipment to ride fast.
. I do know the capabilities of those who ride on the routes I ride on because I and they have been riding the same routes for years. Just like all the same cyclists in any region will all go to the same races year after year, decade after decade, and all know what the other riders will do.

The most popular section of this forum is the one for vintage bicycles, so those who think new is "nice" are the minority, not the people who like old equipment. Riding a heavy old ten-speed around the region and in local timed events does some good, it shows people they don't have to have new things or spend a lot of money to participate, and that is being a lot more constructive in society than telling people they have to participate in a rat-race of consumerism or materialism to enjoy cycling.

eduskator

Either OP has a crazy W/KG ratio or he does flat-like-a-pancake rides. Still, 23-24 on the flat is very good.

burnthesheep

Fishermen and cyclists both embellish to their advantage.

Period.

It takes probably 260+ to do 24 mph pan flat alone on a road bike. If thats their z2 I smell BS. As that puts your hour power in the 370’s. A person with an hour power in the 370’s doesnt have to ask questions like this.

Especially given if you ride safely your stops and restarts will kill that avg.

MrLuke

Can be that he has 340w ftp or around maybe add to this tail wind and is real. I saw his last ride with 4 other cyclist group 37.4km/h on 120km round elevation 349m, but hart rate killing avg 121bpm. He is training maybe 8-10years and old cyclist 51y.old.

big john

[QUOTE=beng1;22587851]So nobody is "impressive" unless they can average 20mph for some distance you decide on? How does that have any meaning to anyone but you? /QUOTE]
You read that wrong. I was pointing out the difference between riding a TT and a road ride. You said you average 20 mph on a ride.

You've mentioned many times on these pages your disdain for spending money on ANYTHING. WE all don't feel that way, not even all the people on C&V. Some of the C&V people spend money on their bikes. You obviously don't have to buy a new bike to have a nice bike, or to go fast. I've never had a lot of money to throw around. I live in a rental in L.A. so a lot of my cash goes there. I drive an old p.o.s. car and have no expensive habits. My newest road bike was purchased used 10 years ago.

I've put about 50K miles on it and climbed around 3 million feet.

Mojo31

Color me impressed!

That's the first picture I've seen of your bike. Like!

big john

Really? I thought you had seen it before. It looks a little different now, parts have been changed. Gonna go ride it now.

terrymorse 

That seems (to me) to be a good power estimate for 24 mph.

I did a flat-to-rolling time trial on a road bike once, with an average speed of ~24mph. I didn't have a power meter. The guy who started 1 minute behind me caught me near the finish. He said his power meter averaged ~300 watts.

t2p

agree - MTB and road very different

Mojo31

Just pics of you on it, but not a nice profile like that.

Reflector Guy

If I averaged 23-24 MPH for any kind of distance I'd probably average 12-13 on the way back, because it almost certainly would be uphill and into the wind.

cyclezen

You know... liking and enjoying cycling, however you find a way to do it, is a good thing. And some of your thoughts are certainly 'right on'.
But it's the way you present it. You obviously have a hard on for others who have spent more for their bikes. I can only imagine that holds in every aspect of what others do/have. So if someone has a more expensive home, they're *******s, to you.
But bringing it back to cycling. Yes, there are those who might feel 'superior', because of their equipment. Painting everyone, who owns a nicer bike than you (which is obviously not difficult), with the same 'brush', is totally wrong. Not because we should all be 'PC' - it's just wrong! The vast majority of riders are pretty good, nice, well considered people.
If whenever you ride by someone with a new bike, and feel they are jerks, money-wasters, over-entitled, or any other negative thing - just from what and how they choose to ride - IT"S YOU who have the problem...
SUPPORTING the idea that any bike is a good bike - is admirable - but also detracted from by denigrating what others choose to ride and how they choose to ride.
choosing to denigrate others for their choices, just reflects right back on you
... just saying...
Ride On
Yuri

AlgarveCycling

That doesn't sound unreasonable. 120km and 349m is almost flat. 4 riders, all on the strong side of things, yeah, 37.4km/h is very do-able, weather-conditions permitting for a 51yr old relatively fit cyclist. At 121bpm he isn't going full gas either and he could have done a lot of drafting.

I do over 30km/h average over 150km and 1500m solo on a training ride that isn't full gas and I'm a little older. With friends, faster. The truly fast elites will be much faster.

Watts alone mean nothing. Similarly ftp. They are just part of the puzzle and part of the math. W/kg is the number you want but not everyone will reveal both their watts and weight.

My watts are pretty low compared to some but I'm 1.68m and 64kg. When I'm doing 250W, larger guys are doing 300W, for example. When I hold a sprint at 1000W for 10s, larger guys are holding 1200W and more impressive-sounding numbers. Compare our W/kg though and then we can see much closer stats. Even then, that's not the whole story. I'm physically more aero than many larger guys so can need fewer watts to match them even in W/kg terms in some conditions. I benefit more from drafting behind larger guys. Conversely, larger guys can have advantages in other conditions. There are lots of variables to consider.

big john

Yes, 121bpm is just loafing along for some. And 51 is definitely not old. I know of at least 2 cat 1 racers over 50.

noimagination

1-2 mph is "very little" if you're driving a car, or a motorcycle, and all it takes to increase your speed by that amount is to move your foot a fraction of an inch (or twist the throttle a degree or so). On a bike, 1-2 mph is a big difference. If you don't believe me, try this: go on a 2 hour ride at your normal pace. Note your average speed. Then, next ride, increase your speed by 1 mph. Then, the ride after that, increase your speed by 2 mph. Assuming that you succeed (I'm pretty damn sure I couldn't succeed), THEN come back and tell us that a speed increase of 1-2 mph is "very little".

beng1

My message is that you don't have to buy new or expensive equipment to enjoy cycling or go fast, or new or expensive anything to enjoy life, and I back it up with my actions and examples. I put that out there on the chance it gives someone an option which is not presented in any of the marketing done by bicycle shops or manufacturers of bicycles and cycling equipment. The message is what makes cycling enjoyable, or what makes a cycle fast in a race is the person doing it, not new or expensive or trendy or fashionable equipment. If you interpret that as personally attacking people it is just your personal bias or insecurities.

Mojo31

Who in their right mind would spend money on advertising that promotes buying old stuff that the advertiser doesn't sell or make money off of? Of course big bike is advertising their current products. Why would they advertise a 1984 Schwinn Varsity?

If you don't like the adds, fast forward thru them. That's one of the beauties of the newer TV systems. Of course, if you have a 19" CRT you are out of luck.

cyclezen

If you love cycling, then relate the 'love', not the 'hate'.
it's ok to contend a point - like you make the point that money, or a more expensive machine doesn't necessarily improve one's riding. Ok to make that contention and give your reasons WITHOUT DENIGRATING others who might make other choices... Some rides don;t ride for 'performance', but yet enjoy their very fine, very new, sometimes expensive bike. That's OK also.
MOCKING is the SAME as HATE , and so here's another contentious quote from you:

Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
Equipment does not matter as long as you have fun, and equipment does not make much of a difference in speed compared to training and your aero body position. I ride, train and race a 35-pound Huffy road-bike, but since I weigh 200 pounds, it is a small percentage of the total bike/rider weight. If you are a small person riding in a hilly area, then I can see taking some trouble to acquire a light bike, but for a heavy rider, or for Anyone riding in an area without serious hills, having a light bike might give you a feeling you enjoy but it will not make you faster as much as it will make you poorer in the wallet.
A few days ago I happen to be riding on the same route a local "cycling club" was riding. From the bikes these guys were on, and the outfits they were wearing, you would think you were watching a pro road-race. There was about 20 of them I caught up to right at the base of a very long and steep hill, and I could not believe how I blew by all of these guys and got to the top of the hill quite a ways ahead of them. I would have had to have a 50-pound or more weight pack on my back to go as slow as they were. One of them had a titanium Merckx I noticed, and the rest of the bikes and gear were similar. What a colossal waste of money for those guys. I paid $3 for my Huffy, and I was wearing cut-off jeans and a white cotton T-shirt. A 29-pound E-bike ??? That sounds like it was a small fortune too.

Maybe you don;t realize it, that's why I'm bringing to your attention, how this is read by many others. This is mocking, and as noted by others, maybe the guys you mock were not considering their ride was a race against you. Maybe they didn;t care. Maybe you shouldn;t 'care' why anyone else is out to ride, or how fast or slow they go, or any other comparison.
Riding is all about YOU, and it's all about each of us in our own way. Don;t make that your expectations and their expectations are the same. If it's a race, call it a 'race', agree upon the 'race', then go at it. OR get a CYcling USA license, show up at a sanctioned race, and give it your shot.
Otherwise, don;t come here with you MUP exploits to justify your view points. It mocks you more than what you intend towards others.
Love the way you ride, show that Love. 'Forget/Don't' do the denigrating of the way others choose to ride a bike. It will serve your points better.
There are always strong ways to make a point, mock and denigrate are not effective.
We're all human, and humans make mistakes. I am guilty. But what takes us to 'higher ground' is admitting our errors and working on doing it better, next time.
Ride on - However you might wish
Yuri