Putting leg down at light
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Putting leg down at light
I always put my right leg down when I stop. I am now noticing knee pain when walking up stairs after my bike ride. I think Im over extending my leg a bit when putting my foot down.. should I just use my other leg sometimes or stand off the saddle?
#2
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,811
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6100 Post(s)
Liked 4,732 Times
in
3,262 Posts
Maybe just lean the bike more so you don't have to keep your leg overextended at the stop. Or simply get off the saddle. However more often than not, I'll lean the bike and stand on my left foot at stops. Only when I expect it to be a stop for a long traffic light do I get off the saddle and use both feet.
But if your knee is bothering you, you need to do something. Don't just assume it's the leg down at stops. Might be several other things.
But if your knee is bothering you, you need to do something. Don't just assume it's the leg down at stops. Might be several other things.
#3
Full Member
Thread Starter
Maybe just lean the bike more so you don't have to keep your leg overextended at the stop. Or simply get off the saddle. However more often than not, I'll lean the bike and stand on my left foot at stops. Only when I expect it to be a stop for a long traffic light do I get off the saddle and use both feet.
But if your knee is bothering you, you need to do something. Don't just assume it's the leg down at stops. Might be several other things.
But if your knee is bothering you, you need to do something. Don't just assume it's the leg down at stops. Might be several other things.
#4
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,811
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6100 Post(s)
Liked 4,732 Times
in
3,262 Posts
With pain you sort of have to judge for yourself if it's something you can ride through while it takes care of itself or not. But if intense pain and especially if any swelling around the knee, then I would be taking a few days off the bike for it to get better.
If you can make adjustments that alleviate that pain, then I'd suppose it's okay. But if you are moving out of the proper fit position of things like saddle height, then you might eventually have some other issues. But temporarily for a week or so till your pain goes away might be okay.
Since this is a new to you bike, is the q-factor (distance between the crank arm planes) different from what you rode before. Or is the length of the cranks significantly different than the bike prior. As well, are you using cleats? If so, then possibly your cleat angles need to be adjusted so your knee joint moves without binding or twisting as your go from the bottom pedal stroke to the top pedal stroke.
If you can make adjustments that alleviate that pain, then I'd suppose it's okay. But if you are moving out of the proper fit position of things like saddle height, then you might eventually have some other issues. But temporarily for a week or so till your pain goes away might be okay.
Since this is a new to you bike, is the q-factor (distance between the crank arm planes) different from what you rode before. Or is the length of the cranks significantly different than the bike prior. As well, are you using cleats? If so, then possibly your cleat angles need to be adjusted so your knee joint moves without binding or twisting as your go from the bottom pedal stroke to the top pedal stroke.
#5
Full Member
Thread Starter
It feels great to ride with the same measured seat height as to my other bikes. Cranks are the same length. Just that stumble off the moving bike hurt me and its painful to climb on my singlespeed and walking up stairs. I am going to ride my e bike and use the motor as much as possible.
#6
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,501
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3873 Post(s)
Liked 1,920 Times
in
1,369 Posts
This seems to me to be a rehab issue. For every injury, there's a way to rehab it. The trick is to figure out what that is. My first instinct would be to try walking, just plain walking. We are built to walk. Try around the block, then gradually longer up to say 3 miles. Depending on the injury, this might be a little uncomfortable to start with, but might loosen up and feel fine after maybe 1/2 mile - or not. Sometimes I'll do deep unweighted squats to loosen up and strengthen knee tissues. Play around with various things.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
#7
Senior Member
Agree with Carbonfiberboy, except for the squats. I have to listen to my body, here. I do a deep squat when I get down to do a saddle measurement, with some discomfort upon standing back up. It's one of the ways I discover I may have an injury. It abates if I only do partial squats until the knee feels stronger, maybe ¼, then ½, then ¾. One of the therapies (according to Dr. Road Fan) is walking, and another is gentle pedaling at medium cadence and low effort, and I also try to think about linear/vertical knee tracking, all very gentle. Also necessary is no leg hyperextension or foot pressing the pedal at BDC - that means the saddle is too low. I think the benefit here is something related to knee self-lubrication.
The 2 and 3 mile walks also work and relax my hip ball joints.
The 2 and 3 mile walks also work and relax my hip ball joints.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked 221 Times
in
121 Posts
If your bike is properly fitted then you should not be able to reach the ground with either foot while still seated in the saddle. When seated in the saddle and the crank in the 6 o'clock position you should only have a very slight bend at the knee. Based on that, fully extending your leg when unclipped should not allow stable footing on the grounds while still in the saddle unless you are leaning the bike at an odd angle thus hyper-extending your leg.
Get your fit checked at a bike shop. My .02
Good luck!
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,486
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1080 Post(s)
Liked 681 Times
in
438 Posts
Correct. Putting your foot down while still in the saddle is not a thing. You shouldn't be able to do it, nor should it be attempted. The exceptions would be a "pedal forward" bicycle that's made for that, or I guess a recumbent. On a normal bike, if you're stopped, you are out of the saddle, period. If you can put your foot down while stopped, your saddle is too low and that alone can cause knee pain.
#10
Thread derailleur
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 590
Bikes: Merlin Extralight '94 & Cannondale Supersix '15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times
in
240 Posts
Correct. Putting your foot down while still in the saddle is not a thing. You shouldn't be able to do it, nor should it be attempted. The exceptions would be a "pedal forward" bicycle that's made for that, or I guess a recumbent. On a normal bike, if you're stopped, you are out of the saddle, period. If you can put your foot down while stopped, your saddle is too low and that alone can cause knee pain.
In my estimation, anyway, performing this alone would not create a knee problem. Sounds like it stems from something else.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,486
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1080 Post(s)
Liked 681 Times
in
438 Posts
The knee problem may indeed stem from something else, and just be revealing itself when he does what he's doing. That doesn't change that there's a right way and a wrong way to stop and start on a bicycle, and reaching down with your tippy-toe to stabilize yourself while stopped is not the right way. There are a lots of broken arms and collarbones, in people's own driveway. There are some excellent videos on Youtube on how to start, stop, dismount, and restart again. It's worth drilling. If you can't do a track stand, you better learn the right way to stop and restart.
Likes For Jeff Neese:
#12
Thread derailleur
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 590
Bikes: Merlin Extralight '94 & Cannondale Supersix '15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times
in
240 Posts
The knee problem may indeed stem from something else, and just be revealing itself when he does what he's doing. That doesn't change that there's a right way and a wrong way to stop and start on a bicycle, and reaching down with your tippy-toe to stabilize yourself while stopped is not the right way. There are a lots of broken arms and collarbones, in people's own driveway. There are some excellent videos on Youtube on how to start, stop, dismount, and restart again. It's worth drilling. If you can't do a track stand, you better learn the right way to stop and restart.
Tippy-toe might be an exaggeration. The inability to do this suggests one's saddle is too high.
Anyway, no need to admonish me. I typically trackstand at stops. Or lean over with the ball of my foot planted. Or entirely off my saddle.
For upwards of fifty years, I might add. So perhaps you can address your seat height issue or something else that causes you to klutz out.
Likes For roadcrankr:
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked 221 Times
in
121 Posts
Here is what I actually said:
extending your leg when unclipped should not allow stable footing on the grounds while still in the saddle unless you are leaning the bike at an odd angle thus hyper-extending your leg.
Now let me guess... Your tippy-toe nonsense qualifies as stable footing in your mind right?
#14
Thread derailleur
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 590
Bikes: Merlin Extralight '94 & Cannondale Supersix '15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times
in
240 Posts
Correct. Putting your foot down while still in the saddle is not a thing. You shouldn't be able to do it, nor should it be attempted. The exceptions would be a "pedal forward" bicycle that's made for that, or I guess a recumbent. On a normal bike, if you're stopped, you are out of the saddle, period. If you can put your foot down while stopped, your saddle is too low and that alone can cause knee pain.
I said nothing of the sort. Please stop making things up because your tippy-toe thing is absurd and a bad idea to pass along as advise to someone who is already experiencing issues...
Here is what I actually said:
Now let me guess... Your tippy-toe nonsense qualifies as stable footing in your mind right?
Here is what I actually said:
Now let me guess... Your tippy-toe nonsense qualifies as stable footing in your mind right?
The excerpt from your post, that Jeff Neese confirmed: "If your bike is properly fitted then you should not be able to reach the ground with either foot while still seated in the saddle." This advice suggests and infers the OP should raise his saddle height.
I never recommended anybody to perform this maneuver, but I have done it for fifty years without any issues.
Perhaps you should re-read your narrative in the morning with a clear mind.
Likes For roadcrankr:
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked 221 Times
in
121 Posts
Of course you can contort your body and lean the bike to make it happen. Just because you can does not mean you should. Nevermind someone who is already having issues.
If you want to balance on your tippy-toes then have at it I guess.. If your bike is properly fitted then you simply should not be able to get solid footing when seated in the saddle..
Argue onwards I guess, to the block list with you..
Likes For raqball:
#16
Thread derailleur
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 590
Bikes: Merlin Extralight '94 & Cannondale Supersix '15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times
in
240 Posts
My aim was less about giving advice and more about ensuring you did not raise your saddle too high.
A couple other posters accused me of giving faulty advice. Or "advise" as one said a couple times. LOL
Anyway, they got a little twisted and I certainly did not wish you to fall into that category.
Incidentally, during my ride today, I found myself unclipping from either pedal and getting both my toe and cleat to the pavement without incident. Been doing it far too long that it's become second nature. That move, alone, seems unlikely to hurt someone's knee, in my opinion, but you never know if that's the case 100% of the time. The only thought that came to mind involves a cleat binding tension set too high, like maybe unclipping once it torqued your knee oddly.
All in all, hope you manage to determine the source and heal quickly. Take care.
#17
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,501
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3873 Post(s)
Liked 1,920 Times
in
1,369 Posts
The answer of course is "stand off the saddle." It's possible that not everyone understood what you meant by that.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
Likes For Carbonfiberboy:
#18
Full Member
Thread Starter
As long as your heel is on the pedal at the 6 oclock position and your leg is straight you are at the right seat height. My feet are big enough that I can touch the ground on the saddle.
Likes For Wallonthefloor:
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,340
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2429 Post(s)
Liked 2,889 Times
in
1,646 Posts
Fixed to include a proviso that has been lost in the mists of time. That sizing method was current in the days when bike racers wore shoes with thin leather soles that lacked heels. Thus, many people who apply that method while wearing thicker-heeled shoes are likely riding around with saddles that are set too high. If you look at some videos of racers in action, you'll see that the bend in their knees at the bottom of the pedal stroke is considerably greater than is the case with many casual and sport riders.
#20
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,275
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1428 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times
in
353 Posts
If you’re comfortably sitting at a light with your butt on the saddle and your foot on the ground, on a standard geometry road bike, without leaning the bike way over, it’s highly likely your seat is too low.
The fact that the OP’s standard practice is to put a foot down at a light, while seated, and he’s experiencing knee pain suggests a reasonable probability that his seat height is off.
it’s not uncommon for less experienced or knowledgeable cyclists to adjust their seat height precisely for the purpose of putting a foot on the ground while seated, as opposed to for the proper leg extension while pedaling.
If I were the OP, I would check my seat height, or have it checked by someone who knows bike fit.
The fact that the OP’s standard practice is to put a foot down at a light, while seated, and he’s experiencing knee pain suggests a reasonable probability that his seat height is off.
it’s not uncommon for less experienced or knowledgeable cyclists to adjust their seat height precisely for the purpose of putting a foot on the ground while seated, as opposed to for the proper leg extension while pedaling.
If I were the OP, I would check my seat height, or have it checked by someone who knows bike fit.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#21
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,811
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6100 Post(s)
Liked 4,732 Times
in
3,262 Posts
The OP didn't say that they had both feet firmly planted on the ground. It might be that they just have the very tips of the toe of their shoes touching the ground.
If the OP is on a bike that has a very slack seat tube angle or has a seat post with an obscene amount of setback, then it's possible their saddle can be at the correct height and their feet touch the ground firmly while in the saddle.
Most of our saddle height and other aphorisms revolve around a road bike geometry. So I wouldn't quite think it necessarily good to use them for other types of bikes such as cruisers with very slack geometry or saddles with large amounts of setback.
If the OP is on a bike that has a very slack seat tube angle or has a seat post with an obscene amount of setback, then it's possible their saddle can be at the correct height and their feet touch the ground firmly while in the saddle.
Most of our saddle height and other aphorisms revolve around a road bike geometry. So I wouldn't quite think it necessarily good to use them for other types of bikes such as cruisers with very slack geometry or saddles with large amounts of setback.
Last edited by Iride01; 09-27-22 at 09:29 AM.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,830
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4745 Post(s)
Liked 3,861 Times
in
2,510 Posts
Even if we stick to just pure road bikes, seat height vs the ground can vary quite a bit with the exact same leg extension. BB heights vary. I've had bikes with BBs from 10-3/8" off the ground to a full 11". Pedals and their spindle centerline to top of platform vary quite a bit. So does stack height of cleats if used. Shoe sole design.
I have a bike now with a very low BB (old Raleigh Competition that I would NEVER make a fix gear!) A joy to ride in the city because stops are so easy. I also modified those shoes with additional sole around the cleats for good walking and no marring of expensive floors. My custom road fix gear and a mid '80s Miyata race bike; both with ~10 7/8" BBs and ridden with race-style shoes and cleats. Get reminded every time I ride them that at slow speeds and lights, the seat is a long ways up.
I ride all those bikes with the same crank lengths and knee bend. First stop when moving to one of my high BB bikes is a re-calibration.
I have a bike now with a very low BB (old Raleigh Competition that I would NEVER make a fix gear!) A joy to ride in the city because stops are so easy. I also modified those shoes with additional sole around the cleats for good walking and no marring of expensive floors. My custom road fix gear and a mid '80s Miyata race bike; both with ~10 7/8" BBs and ridden with race-style shoes and cleats. Get reminded every time I ride them that at slow speeds and lights, the seat is a long ways up.
I ride all those bikes with the same crank lengths and knee bend. First stop when moving to one of my high BB bikes is a re-calibration.
Likes For 79pmooney:
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 4,370
Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 508 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times
in
331 Posts
Maybe your saddle is too high or maybe you should just slip off the saddle while waiting for the light to change. It's just weird that standing on an extended leg is causing knee pain.
#24
Full Member
Thread Starter
I am no longer experiencing knee pain. It was not from the seat height as I had mentioned above I had twisted my knee falling from an improperly shifting bike. It has since gotten better from riding with my e bike singlespeed and taking a few days off.
Likes For Wallonthefloor: