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Comparing Competitions (Raleigh)

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Comparing Competitions (Raleigh)

Old 11-22-10, 09:19 AM
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bumpalong
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Comparing Competitions (Raleigh)

I'm interested in perpectives about the relative advantages/desireability of the various versions of the Raleigh competition in the 70's and early 80's. Which do you think are the one(s) to really look out for? How does the Mark II compare to the GS? And what has the test of time told about how well the different original component sets hold up to use? Do you still ride yours built up period correct or have you modded it up? If so why?

All perspectives would be appreciated. The basis of the question is that I'm lined up to purchase a 73 MK II, and am wondering how it compares to earlier and later versions. Best I can offer for a pic is this link to the Sheldon Brown catalog scan - too big to post here directly (at least with my lacking skills it is...)

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroral...talog-1973.pdf
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Old 11-22-10, 09:51 AM
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I've never owned either, so...

The only thing I think somewhat desirable on the 73 is the Huret Jubilee deraillers; hopefully they're still there. I understand they were a little fragile. But its probably a fine basic bike if that's what you want. People I knew who had them in the day didn't find them especially "competitive": they were entry-level club racers.

I'd think the GS a better bike: the Nuovo Gran Sport components are functionally every bit as good as Nuovo Record; the frame may be a slightly better design too.
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Old 11-22-10, 10:02 AM
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i've never owned a MkI or MkII competition. i have a GS. from what i've read about the frame differences, the GS got a shorter wheelbase and more aggressive geometry (parallel 74 degrees). later GSs (80s?) were made in japan but with the same reynolds tubing and same geometry as the earlier english-made GSs. i chose to keep the original campy NGS group because it was all there and cleaned up very nicely (it was one of those bikes that had never been ridden, just left in a garage to oxidize!). it's also the only campy-equipped bike i've ever owned, so i know very little about the different campy groups. but i can say that functionally, the NGS group seems to work just fine; shifts are smooth, silent and intuitive.
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Old 11-22-10, 10:05 AM
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Not thinking about racing, I like the early 70's models the best. I think the mix of components were a lot more interesting than the Campy NGS stuff. I like the decals, sloping fork crown, capella lugs and long chainstays of the early 70s models best too.
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Old 11-22-10, 10:06 AM
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I'm pretty sure, generally, the older the bike, the more flash. More chrome, named dropouts, etc. At one point, they didn't even chrome the seat stays.

I like flash, so I ride an older one. My daughter rides in bad areas, so the painted seat stays work great for that.

I modernize the drive train for all ten speeds I build. I like shifting to be really, really, really smooth and I don't want to monkey with finicky 40-year old derailleurs. Everything else stays stock, or at least would be a contemporary upgrade (Mafacs.) But I just won't even touch an old derailleur. I change out both derailleurs, the crankset, and the freewheel.
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Old 11-22-10, 10:13 AM
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I have a '73 Mk II which came all original (except for brakes) but I was never pleased with the way it shifted with the Huret Jubilee. I switched it over to Campy NR which works a lot better. I'd say if you have one lined up, go for it!!



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Old 11-22-10, 10:18 AM
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Yes - to clarify, I am not by any means looking to this as a racer. I would plan on putting this to use as an occasional day tourer / leisure rider.

Thanks Anton - if mine ends up anywhere near as attractive and functional as yours I'll be very happy indeed.
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Old 11-22-10, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sciencemonster
I'm pretty sure, generally, the older the bike, the more flash. More chrome, named dropouts, etc. At one point, they didn't even chrome the seat stays.

I like flash, so I ride an older one. My daughter rides in bad areas, so the painted seat stays work great for that.

I modernize the drive train for all ten speeds I build. I like shifting to be really, really, really smooth and I don't want to monkey with finicky 40-year old derailleurs. Everything else stays stock, or at least would be a contemporary upgrade (Mafacs.) But I just won't even touch an old derailleur. I change out both derailleurs, the crankset, and the freewheel.
Just to clarify - would that be the younger (i.e. the more recent) the bike?
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Old 11-22-10, 10:27 AM
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I used to have a 1970 Comp. The Jubilee derailleur is a gem—the best-shifting non-index derailleur I ever used. The geometry is really stretched-out and laid-back by modern standards. The Weinmann centerpulls are a joke.
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Old 11-22-10, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by adamrice
The Weinmann centerpulls are a joke.
I respectfully disagree about the center-pulls. I have them on my Raleigh Gran Sport, which is very similar to the competition frame. I have the extremely long reach variety, adjusted very close to the rim with cool stop pads. They are very effective and I have never worried about stopping.
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Old 11-22-10, 10:34 AM
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Mine is an "81 GS assembled in Japan. The Lug work, paint and chrome is some of the best I've seen among the Ralieghs. Can't speak about the components cuz i built it up from an original frame, fork, stem and bars. I did use Campy GS brakes and headset. As for the ride: it's stiff and quick, I use it mostly for short fast rides, under 20 miles. It's not something I'd like to do a Century ride on.


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Old 11-22-10, 10:35 AM
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I've had a '71 and a couple of late 70s GS models. I prefer the earlier ones for their sport-touring geometry rather than the sportier geometry of the later ones, but those later ones did make for excellent 650B conversions.

In terms of component groups, Huret Jubilee is pretty stuff and has a reputation for fragility. I have it on one bike with no problems. Campy GS is very functional and seemingly durable, in my experience.

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Old 11-22-10, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bumpalong
Just to clarify - would that be the younger (i.e. the more recent) the bike?
My 69 has chromed Nervex(?) lugs and Campy dropouts. After that, they went progressively cheaper over the years. I think they positioned the Comp as the low end fancy bike, under the International and Pro. It was always full 531 double butted, though, so it was always a top of the line frame. It's the components and details what became more workingman. Makes an excellent candidate for upgrading since you don't have to waste a bunch of time stripping all that Campy stuff off (GS excepted.) I replaced everything I replaced with Campy, though, because, as I said, I don't like messing with shifting and I like flash. I've still got downtube shifters on mine. I use it for touring - I can ride on that thing all day long, it's so comfy.
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Old 11-22-10, 10:43 AM
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I have a '75 or '76 Mark II, which I prefer to the later GS for its more relaxed geometry, (to me) more classic style, and Huret Jubilee components. I bought it as a close equivalent to a Raleigh Super Tourer (I think these two models shared the same frame, although the Super Tourer was equipped with Weinmann Symmetric brakes rather than center pulls), and have equipped it as a quasi-Super Tourer with Nitto Albatross bars, early Suntour Thumb shifters, and early Dia-Compe mountain brake levers.
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Old 11-22-10, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by lanciat
I have a '75 or '76 Mark II, which I prefer to the later GS for its more relaxed geometry, (to me) more classic style, and Huret Jubilee components. I bought it as a close equivalent to a Raleigh Super Tourer (I think these two models shared the same frame, although the Super Tourer was equipped with Weinmann Symmetric brakes rather than center pulls), and have equipped it as a quasi-Super Tourer with Nitto Albatross bars, early Suntour Thumb shifters, and early Dia-Compe mountain brake levers.
That's interesting in that I'm thinking of converting my '74 Super Tourer into more of a Competition!

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Old 11-22-10, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottryder
I have a '73 Mk II which came all original (except for brakes) but I was never pleased with the way it shifted with the Huret Jubilee. I switched it over to Campy NR which works a lot better. I'd say if you have one lined up, go for it!!



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How did you mount a Campy rear derailer on a Huret hanger? The stop is in the wrong place. Do you have an adapter?
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Old 11-22-10, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
How did you mount a Campy rear derailer on a Huret hanger? The stop is in the wrong place. Do you have an adapter?
No adapter, it mounted like any other RD. Yea, I've read that it shouldn't work but ... Remember, this is one weird Competition with it's side pull brake calipers and absence of the rear brake cable stop.

I really wish I knew the answer ...


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Old 11-22-10, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by adamrice
I used to have a 1970 Comp. The Jubilee derailleur is a gem—the best-shifting non-index derailleur I ever used. The geometry is really stretched-out and laid-back by modern standards. The Weinmann centerpulls are a joke.
I don't like Weinmann centerpulls, either. They always felt too spongy, too springy for my tastes. Often, I could not get the pivot points properly adjusted because of the crappy plastic bushings/bearings they used. It was either too loose (with poor braking) or too tight (and the arms would bind). I am always very surprised at the loyal following they have here on Bike Forums but I still wouldn't have them on my bike.

The Jubilee is probably my all time favorite derailleur design. I've never owned one or even used one but for sheer looks, they cannot be beat.
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Old 11-22-10, 01:54 PM
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If I were after a Raleigh Competition, I'd hold out until I could get one with a full sloping fork crown and the Jubilee rear derailleur. Absent both of those, I'm not interested.

Honestly speaking, if I were in the market for a Raleigh road bike, it's have to be a Professional with full sloping fork crown and fast back seat stays. It's have to be in the silver/mink color scheme, too. They come with a full Nuovo Record gruppo, so you have a very good set up - even the brakes are top quality. .
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Old 11-22-10, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
How did you mount a Campy rear derailer on a Huret hanger? The stop is in the wrong place. Do you have an adapter?
I take a brass washer, saw some notches in it, bend in one to hit the stop on the hanger, then leave the other one flat to catch the Campy derailleur. Seems to work.

I didn't know there were adapters. Anyone have a pic?
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Old 12-03-10, 11:04 PM
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I've got a 73 Comp coming in the mail. It's just a frame/fork/headset and front and rear Huret derailleurs but everything else I didn't really want. It'll be a quasi Huret/Campy GS build as I have GS parts from the Gran Course I traded for it. I would of liked the Gran Course but it was nearly 10cm's too big. I'm excited but is there a write up on switching recessed nut style calipers on the GS calipers to something that'll work with the Comp?
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Old 12-04-10, 12:43 AM
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What is it about the Competition that I love so much? I know I love the looks of the Huret Jubilee rear derailleur but it isn't that, or atleast not just that. Is it the full-sloping fork crown? Perhaps it's the graceful swoop in the fork blades. Is it the classic black color?

Perhaps what I like about it is that it is everything I ever wanted my Grand Prix to be but it never was.
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Old 12-21-10, 11:02 AM
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I'd vote for the Competition Mark II. The sport touing geometry is every bit as nice to ride as an International and I like the looks of a Jubilee better than the Campagnolo. I have a 1978 Competition GS but I wouldn't want to ride it for a long distance and it isn't competitive to new steel so it is back hanging as a frame. As for center pulls I think they were the best brakes available until the double action side pulls came along. If you aren't getting enough stopping power just use shorter straddle cables.
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Old 12-21-10, 11:08 AM
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The '73 featured Capella lugs and the beautiful sloping crown fork. The Huret droputs are the downside, in my opinion.
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Old 12-21-10, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Scottryder
I have a '73 Mk II which came all original (except for brakes) but I was never pleased with the way it shifted with the Huret Jubilee. I switched it over to Campy NR which works a lot better. I'd say if you have one lined up, go for it!!



Scott
OOO! Love it. The exact bike I had, bought new. I put Nuovo Record brakes on mine too. Kick myself every time I see one, wishing I'd kept it.
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