Originally Posted by wolfchild

You mean people who slave away at minimum wage jobs and struggle to survive and pay their bills and put enough food on their table ??.

Originally Posted by wolfchild

Here let me give you a simple interpretation of those pics: Public transit sucks in most third world countries, is dangerous, uncomfortable and just a huge PITA to use. Another thing to look out for is cultural trends of the countries. I don't know about Saudi Arabia but in some countries having a car is a status symbol which will get you more respect. In many countries car-free people are considered lower class citizens.

Originally Posted by RichSPK

We're way off-topic, but Saudi Arabia is not a third world country. It's the world's largest oil producer and exporter, and is pretty rich.

Originally Posted by wrldtraveller

well. all post are awesome on this thread. I had a japanese friend visit me one summer. He was surprised to see so few people riding their bikes or walking around. I was perplexed and asked him for more explanation. He explained that in Japan, many apartments tend to have first floor as retail/grocery. so many people choose to not have a car because they can just walk a couple blocks to buy groceries. Its different in North america, we tend to place homes far away from the retail places. For instance, Where I live, it is impractical for me to ride my bike to work because it would take me in excess of 3 hours one way. So i drive out of necessity. But my next goal is to earn enough money to live closer to my home. again, it all depend on how much you can afford to find a place closer to your work. For example, if you worked in downtown, and you wanted to have a home close by (walking distance or biking distance) most houses would be in the 3/4 million dollars or more. For me, thats too rich for my blood. So many people would prefer to live farther away because the prices of homes are cheaper. As to apartments, or condominums, the one closer to downtown are much higher, a small 1 bedroom condo would be in the stratosphere of 300,000 dollars or higher. Then again, it all comes to affordability. It is affordable to have a house/apartment that are farther from downtown core, and put up with driving a car, or put up with hours of transit trips. I usually use transit (light rail or bus) to commute to School as it is more practical to use Light rail transit. but for work, I drive because time wise, driving is shorter than light rail as well. it would take me 30 to 40 minutes driving time one way, using transit (light rail and bus) would take me a little more than 1 hour one way(barring any incidences such as break down).

P

Originally Posted by wolfchild

I know, you're right....And none of the business CEO's and businessman who own oil companies would ever consider going car-free and walk, use 50 year old minibuses or bicycles as their daily transportation.

Originally Posted by cooker

You must really hate your former self.

Originally Posted by sjanzeir

You're probably right. I thought that the pictures would speak a thousand words, but apparently they were the wrong words. The idea I was trying to bring across is that with these buses, combined with the heat and road conditions, it would be nearly impossible to get around and stay fresh and presentable. The decades-old problem with this country is that there never has been a proper, publicly funded, city-managed "public" transport system in the true sense of the word (i.e. as understood in the Western world.)

There were more than one attempt by Saptco and others to set up an urban system a few years back, but they just couldn't get it done right the first time; they just couldn't compete with the privately owned buses. The drivers of those buses charge passengers less than half what big-ticket corporations like Saptco would charge (why pay five riyals to get somewhere when you could pay two?)

The government has been trying for years to eliminate them, but there was no legal way to put them out of business (and they would just up and complain to the king or the region's prince every time the municipality or the traffic department fires a salvo.) The only move the government could make is to prevent them from replacing their old buses with new ones, so that's they they kept running those decades-old Toyota Coasters.

So, all of these factors, plus the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of low-wage foreign workers who depend on these buses to get around, the the fact that gas is comparatively cheap, and most everyone as their dog own cars, it's kind of hard to set up a public transport system and get enough people to use it to make it economically feasible for the city and the operators. They're building a subway system in Riyadh now, but whether or not it would be popular enough to cover its costs is anybody's guess at this point.

Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve

I guess those of us like myself who are carfree should be considered lucky. Thanks for sharing with us your story from halfway around the world.

However, none of us are doom to a car dependent life. Most of my family owns cars and they live not far from where I live. I have high standards and demand to live within walking distance of a lightrail line. However, I was carfree for years with one bus line. I moved five miles away and now have access to numerous bus and rail lines. It's all about choice.

1. I don't make a six figure salary
2. I don't live in a 400K condo or 1 million dollar home (although there are many close by)
3. I found that one can live very close to the well off with just a bicycle and transit
4. I never worked in a job that could not be reached by transit

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter

Just the other day.... I heard a woman make a comment about the cost of maintaining her car. Then added that she could never go back to not having a car.

The woman is about two years off drugs. Without going into details... after many years of drug addiction she got clean and now has a car... and as she put it... "a life". She said that before (meaning while doing drugs) her life was merely about getting (and then doing) drugs. Now without the self imposed confinement of her addiction she is free to go places and do things.

I myself often use a bicycle to replace automobile transportation. And when using the car I often consolidate trips... say wait till Wednesday and take care of several tasks in one trip... driving less miles and using less fuel. But I have a very full, rich life. I don't think driving more would in my case make life fuller (but I have to wonder).

Do others [say]... give up golfing because they would have to drive to the course. Or pass up concerts because of transportation hassles. Or not attend a new store grand opening... even though it sounded like fun... but wasn't a needed activity. Does being car free sometimes turn into a form of self-flagellation.

Originally Posted by Ekdog

Help me out here: what is the connection between car-free living and drug addition?

Originally Posted by wolfchild

If a person is car-free for ideological reasons then there a lot of similarities between the two: They will both limit the persons employment opportunities, they will both limit travel opportunities and you're basically stuck in your neighbourhood, they will both limit enjoyment of life, they will both prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential, they will both prevent the person from advancing and making progress in life. Ideologies can be as harmful as addictions...

Originally Posted by wolfchild

If a person is car-free for ideological reasons then there a lot of similarities between the two: They will both limit the persons employment opportunities, they will both limit travel opportunities and you're basically stuck in your neighbourhood, they will both limit enjoyment of life, they will both prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential, they will both prevent the person from advancing and making progress in life. Ideologies can be as harmful as addictions...

Originally Posted by Ekdog

Many of the car-free who post here are content with our lives, more so than we were when we relied on cars. We earn enough and don't want for more. You've failed at this. You were unable to thrive car-free and have found it necessary to revert to car ownership because you feel a need to acquire more consumer goods. Some might say that you are the one who suffers from an addiction.

Originally Posted by Walter S

I agree. But wolfchild can't just be a lover of cars and leave it at that. He needs to continue to spout absolute declarations that car free life sucks for everybody and that car free people inflict this pain on themselves to prove something. I find that pretty insulting.

I'm just fine with him not wanting to be car free. It's not for everybody. No questions asked. But don't keep on day after day insulting me and questioning my integrity.

Originally Posted by wolfchild

I know, you're right....And none of the business CEO's and businessman who own oil companies would ever consider going car-free and walk, use 50 year old minibuses or bicycles as their daily transportation.

Originally Posted by Roody

Please take the title of this thread literally. Tell us HOW you do it. How have you have adjusted your habits or developed new skills in order to be carfree, or at least less dependent on cars?

If you read this forum, I assume you have an interest in being less car-dependent. Pass along some of what you've learned to help others who share your interest in being carfree or less car-dependent,

(Obviously you don't have to be carfree to participate--just less dependent on cars than you once were.)

Originally Posted by Walter S

The world around me got bigger when I became car free. I got to know all kinds of neat places around me. You could say the I did that because I was "limited". I choose to think I had my eyes opened.

Originally Posted by Walter S

I don't have a goal of traveling as far as possible just for the sake of it.

Originally Posted by cooker

Well, you certainly aren't Captain Cook:

“I had the ambition to not only go farther than man had gone before, but to go as far as it was possible to go.”

Originally Posted by wolfchild

If a person is car-free for ideological reasons... limit the persons employment opportunities... limit travel opportunities... basically stuck in your neighbourhood... limit enjoyment of life... prevent the person from living their life to it's fullest potential... prevent the person from advancing and making progress in life...

Originally Posted by Roody

Please take the title of this thread literally. Tell us HOW you do it. How have you have adjusted your habits or developed new skills in order to be carfree, or at least less dependent on cars?

If you read this forum, I assume you have an interest in being less car-dependent. Pass along some of what you've learned to help others who share your interest in being carfree or less car-dependent,

(Obviously you don't have to be carfree to participate--just less dependent on cars than you once were.)

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter

Just the other day.... I heard a woman make a comment about the cost of maintaining her car. Then added that she could never go back to not having a car.

The woman is about two years off drugs. Without going into details... after many years of drug addiction she got clean and now has a car... and as she put it... "a life". She said that before (meaning while doing drugs) her life was merely about getting (and then doing) drugs. Now without the self imposed confinement of her addiction she is free to go places and do things.

Originally Posted by Ekdog

Help me out here: what is the connection between car-free living and drug addiction?

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter

Do others [say]... give up golfing because they would have to drive to the course. Or pass up concerts because of transportation hassles. Or not attend a new store grand opening... even though it sounded like fun... but wasn't a needed activity. Does being car free sometimes turn into a form of self-flagellation.