The Infamous Round Up or Round Down
01-26-22, 11:09 PM
#1
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The Infamous Round Up or Round Down
So, calculated spokes, and of course they couldn't be dead nuts on for length. DT and Sapim are all even mm sizes, the one online company that does odd mm sizes looks dodgy
Front 276.83
Rear 275.63
Rear 273.79
I really don't want spoke ends poking up Rounding down on the rear is >1.5mm to the next even size.
UP or DOWN!? I say down, as I should still have enough engagement
Front 276.83
Rear 275.63
Rear 273.79
I really don't want spoke ends poking up Rounding down on the rear is >1.5mm to the next even size.
UP or DOWN!? I say down, as I should still have enough engagement
01-26-22, 11:44 PM
#2
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Proper butted or CX-Ray style? If so, they'll stretch a bit, depending on spoke count
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01-27-22, 05:54 AM
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01-27-22, 07:46 AM
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So, calculated spokes, and of course they couldn't be dead nuts on for length. DT and Sapim are all even mm sizes, the one online company that does odd mm sizes looks dodgy
Front 276.83
Rear 275.63
Rear 273.79
I really don't want spoke ends poking up Rounding down on the rear is >1.5mm to the next even size.
UP or DOWN!? I say down, as I should still have enough engagement
Front 276.83
Rear 275.63
Rear 273.79
I really don't want spoke ends poking up Rounding down on the rear is >1.5mm to the next even size.
UP or DOWN!? I say down, as I should still have enough engagement
01-27-22, 09:05 AM
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Assuming a hollow box section (double walled) rim I would go up. If a "U" (single wall) rim I would go down. Andy
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01-27-22, 10:10 AM
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Does spoke nipple length come into play? For example, could you use the rounded-down spoke length with a longer nipple? I've seen DT nipples with 12 and 16mm lengths. Of course this assumes the effective length of the threads iscorrespondingly longer.
(BTW, theoretically, you only need 3 engaged threads to develop the full strength of a threaded fastener.)
(BTW, theoretically, you only need 3 engaged threads to develop the full strength of a threaded fastener.)
Last edited by MudPie; 01-27-22 at 10:15 AM.
01-27-22, 10:57 AM
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01-27-22, 11:16 AM
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I got odd size sapim spokes from these guys if it is any help https://www.wheelbuildingparts.com/
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(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
01-27-22, 11:51 AM
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I got odd size sapim spokes from these guys if it is any help https://www.wheelbuildingparts.com/
01-27-22, 12:11 PM
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Community reputation seems like a good guide for spoke suppliers.
For example I heard about this place called "Yojimbo's Garage" which sounded rather sketchy, but after some research turned out to be quite well regarded among wheel builders. Emailed them and Marcus was more than happy to cut me spokes at an odd number of millimetres. Spokes that incidentally had to be made from unusually long blanks.
Someone listed a Phil Wood spoke machine on Craigslist near me... so tempted, though honestly I can't begin to justify it - though if I won the lottery I'd definitely get one for fun.
And yes, I'd agree with others than if you're building a double wall rim, the spoke end projecting isn't itself a problem, though bottoming out on the spoke threads is - if you go long, you'll have less range to tighten them, since the machine usually only makes 10mm of thread, so if there's 9mm of thread in the nipple by the time you're sticking out 1mm you're stuck (though I guess if you had to you could rig up something with a stop to cut 1mm of thread out of the wrench end - just beware a common drillbit will likely grab in brass, so you want something more like a broken spoke ground into a "D" reamer). In the other direction, having the spoke end short of the nipple shoulder is best avoided since that leads to nipple failure.
For example I heard about this place called "Yojimbo's Garage" which sounded rather sketchy, but after some research turned out to be quite well regarded among wheel builders. Emailed them and Marcus was more than happy to cut me spokes at an odd number of millimetres. Spokes that incidentally had to be made from unusually long blanks.
Someone listed a Phil Wood spoke machine on Craigslist near me... so tempted, though honestly I can't begin to justify it - though if I won the lottery I'd definitely get one for fun.
And yes, I'd agree with others than if you're building a double wall rim, the spoke end projecting isn't itself a problem, though bottoming out on the spoke threads is - if you go long, you'll have less range to tighten them, since the machine usually only makes 10mm of thread, so if there's 9mm of thread in the nipple by the time you're sticking out 1mm you're stuck (though I guess if you had to you could rig up something with a stop to cut 1mm of thread out of the wrench end - just beware a common drillbit will likely grab in brass, so you want something more like a broken spoke ground into a "D" reamer). In the other direction, having the spoke end short of the nipple shoulder is best avoided since that leads to nipple failure.
Last edited by UniChris; 01-27-22 at 12:15 PM.
01-27-22, 12:40 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
Community reputation seems like a good guide for spoke suppliers.
For example I heard about this place called "Yojimbo's Garage" which sounded rather sketchy, but after some research turned out to be quite well regarded among wheel builders. Emailed them and Marcus was more than happy to cut me spokes at an odd number of millimetres. Spokes that incidentally had to be made from unusually long blanks.
Someone listed a Phil Wood spoke machine on Craigslist near me... so tempted, though honestly I can't begin to justify it - though if I won the lottery I'd definitely get one for fun.
And yes, I'd agree with others than if you're building a double wall rim, the spoke end projecting isn't itself a problem, though bottoming out on the spoke threads is - if you go long, you'll have less range to tighten them, since the machine usually only makes 10mm of thread, so if there's 9mm of thread in the nipple by the time you're sticking out 1mm you're stuck (though I guess if you had to you could rig up something with a stop to cut 1mm of thread out of the wrench end - just beware a common drillbit will likely grab in brass, so you want something more like a broken spoke ground into a "D" reamer). In the other direction, having the spoke end short of the nipple shoulder is best avoided since that leads to nipple failure.
For example I heard about this place called "Yojimbo's Garage" which sounded rather sketchy, but after some research turned out to be quite well regarded among wheel builders. Emailed them and Marcus was more than happy to cut me spokes at an odd number of millimetres. Spokes that incidentally had to be made from unusually long blanks.
Someone listed a Phil Wood spoke machine on Craigslist near me... so tempted, though honestly I can't begin to justify it - though if I won the lottery I'd definitely get one for fun.
And yes, I'd agree with others than if you're building a double wall rim, the spoke end projecting isn't itself a problem, though bottoming out on the spoke threads is - if you go long, you'll have less range to tighten them, since the machine usually only makes 10mm of thread, so if there's 9mm of thread in the nipple by the time you're sticking out 1mm you're stuck (though I guess if you had to you could rig up something with a stop to cut 1mm of thread out of the wrench end - just beware a common drillbit will likely grab in brass, so you want something more like a broken spoke ground into a "D" reamer). In the other direction, having the spoke end short of the nipple shoulder is best avoided since that leads to nipple failure.
01-27-22, 05:40 PM
#12
Senior Member
Spoke Nipple Washers
Spoke Nipple Washers can eat up some spoke length if they're a little too long, I don't think longer nipples will help.
01-27-22, 06:45 PM
#13
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Yes. Many times, and they are legit, and super fast in the shipping department. I just received an order from them and built up the American Classic hubs I bought a few years ago, on special.
Last edited by LAJ; 01-27-22 at 07:01 PM.
01-27-22, 08:06 PM
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Thanks! So many web sites died over the last two years, some quickly, some slowly and taking people's money with them. Word of mouth counts for a lot, thanks for the post.
01-27-22, 08:36 PM
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WTF. You are in a bike mecca. Go to Rat City bikes in south Seattle, they are IGH specialists too. They will cut them while you wait. Even I have been there in person. They also have 2.3/ 2.0 spokes that are a good idea at least on the drive side, if you aren't building a weight weenie.
For sure, always round up. It is twice as strong if the spoke goes to the top of the nipple.
I built 2 wheels lately. It indicated 259.2, so I got 260 and it was still short. I then was building another wheel the same and went 261. I used 12 mm DT locking nipples, that have longer flats for the wrench. 10 mm is dumbly short IMO.
Threads are all 3/8"/ 9.5 mm.
For sure, always round up. It is twice as strong if the spoke goes to the top of the nipple.
I built 2 wheels lately. It indicated 259.2, so I got 260 and it was still short. I then was building another wheel the same and went 261. I used 12 mm DT locking nipples, that have longer flats for the wrench. 10 mm is dumbly short IMO.
Threads are all 3/8"/ 9.5 mm.
Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 01-27-22 at 08:44 PM.
01-27-22, 09:18 PM
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Does spoke nipple length come into play? For example, could you use the rounded-down spoke length with a longer nipple? I've seen DT nipples with 12 and 16mm lengths. Of course this assumes the effective length of the threads iscorrespondingly longer.
(BTW, theoretically, you only need 3 engaged threads to develop the full strength of a threaded fastener.)
(BTW, theoretically, you only need 3 engaged threads to develop the full strength of a threaded fastener.)
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01-28-22, 12:35 AM
#17
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WTF. You are in a bike mecca. Go to Rat City bikes in south Seattle, they are IGH specialists too. They will cut them while you wait. Even I have been there in person. They also have 2.3/ 2.0 spokes that are a good idea at least on the drive side, if you aren't building a weight weenie.
For sure, always round up. It is twice as strong if the spoke goes to the top of the nipple.
I built 2 wheels lately. It indicated 259.2, so I got 260 and it was still short. I then was building another wheel the same and went 261. I used 12 mm DT locking nipples, that have longer flats for the wrench. 10 mm is dumbly short IMO.
Threads are all 3/8"/ 9.5 mm.
For sure, always round up. It is twice as strong if the spoke goes to the top of the nipple.
I built 2 wheels lately. It indicated 259.2, so I got 260 and it was still short. I then was building another wheel the same and went 261. I used 12 mm DT locking nipples, that have longer flats for the wrench. 10 mm is dumbly short IMO.
Threads are all 3/8"/ 9.5 mm.
