Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

passing school buses

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

passing school buses

Old 03-24-22, 11:52 AM
  #26  
Bmach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked 263 Times in 161 Posts
mr-bill and livedarkloin will you both represent me for free if I get a ticket for passing a school bus? Seeing you are both lawyers and feel that it is legal to pass.
Bmach is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 12:12 PM
  #27  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,529
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2111 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Where did I say I was a lawyer?

But *YOU* don't have to be a lawyer. If you are passionate about this dire advocacy and safety issue, contact your state rep. You can create a bill "by request" to right this grave wrong that people on bicycles don't have to stop for school busses in our commonwealth.

Good luck!

(I reserve my energy for matters that, er, matter.)

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 12:23 PM
  #28  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,580

Bikes: Mike Melton custom, 1982 Stumpjumper, Alex Moulton AM, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i8, 2021 Motobecane Turino 1x12

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1646 Post(s)
Liked 1,785 Times in 1,041 Posts
I used to have a bus on my commute that picked up children with disabilities*. The driver - not being a jerk, just following protocol - would drive up and deploy the bus' Stop sign. They would then walk to the door of the home and help the mother get the child down the walk, and then deploy the bus' wheelchair lift. Then the driver would lift the child into the bus, position the child and secure the wheelchair in the bus. Then the driver would stow the wheelchair lift, close the door and pull away from the curb as they turned off and retracted the Stop sign.

Yeah, took several minutes.

I'd ride up, hop off the bike, walk past (legal here in Parts Unknown) and remount.


*I looked up acceptable wording on this.
tcs is offline  
Likes For tcs:
Old 03-24-22, 12:44 PM
  #29  
JanMM
rebmeM roineS
 
JanMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Metro Indy, IN
Posts: 16,217

Bikes: Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 225 Posts
Yep - always okay for a cyclist to transform into a pedestrian and do whatever the hell seems appropriate. By ‘always’ I mean almost always.
__________________
Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
JanMM is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 01:44 PM
  #30  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,497

Bikes: Sekine 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1477 Post(s)
Liked 637 Times in 436 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill
Where did I say I was a lawyer?

...

-mr. bill
Post #18 must have thrown us off.

Originally Posted by mr_bill
And from another lawyer, who practices law in Massachusetts, specializing in bike law:
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 01:54 PM
  #31  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by Bmach
mr-bill and livedarkloin will you both represent me for free if I get a ticket for passing a school bus? Seeing you are both lawyers and feel that it is legal to pass.

I don't "feel", I can read a MA statute.

And no, I'm not licensed in MA. It's illegal in the state I practice in.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 01:57 PM
  #32  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,529
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2111 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4
Post #18 must have thrown us off.
Sigh. I guess my reply was poorly drafted.

The other lawyer is Livedarklions. (I replied right after his post, because, well, history shows that pendants, even when given the correct answer, will often dismiss the answer unless it's from a lawyer from the state in question. For free of course.)

Another lawyer is Josh Zisson. (Who actually does gives free legal advice on bike law on the internut, on this very topic, and practices in Massachusetts. He also represents bicyclists in court proceedings, in Massachusetts. But, if you want him to represent you, it's not free. Because, well, that's the way real life works.)

All of this is moot, because Bmach isn't going to run a stop sign on a stopped school bus while riding a bicycle. Neither am I.

p.s. Josh used to post here. He stopped. Maybe because pendants?

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 02:33 PM
  #33  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,529
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2111 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
p.s. The phrase "well crafted FRAP" makes me laugh out loud. Yeah, I won't quit my day job. Oh wait....

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 03-24-22 at 06:22 PM.
mr_bill is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 02:45 PM
  #34  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill
Sigh. I guess my reply was poorly drafted.

The other lawyer is Livedarklions. (I replied right after his post, because, well, history shows that pendants, even when given the correct answer, will often dismiss the answer unless it's from a lawyer from the state in question. For free of course.)

Another lawyer is Josh Zisson. (Who actually does gives free legal advice on bike law on the internut, on this very topic, and practices in Massachusetts. He also represents bicyclists in court proceedings, in Massachusetts. But, if you want him to represent you, it's not free. Because, well, that's the way real life works.)

All of this is moot, because Bmach isn't going to run a stop sign on a stopped school bus while riding a bicycle. Neither am I.

p.s. Josh used to post here. He stopped. Maybe because pendants?

-mr. bill
Just for the record, I never disagreed with your reading of the law. I wasn't aware of that exception, and I almost cracked up when I saw the text of the statute.

I think we reached consensus on drafting nightmare that works ok, and that neither of us intended to pass the stopped school bus anyway. I like the get off the bike and walk it suggestion and am amused that it never occurred to me being as constitutionally adverse to walking my bike as I am..
livedarklions is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 02:55 PM
  #35  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,529
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2111 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Just for the record, I never disagreed with your reading of the law. I wasn't aware of that exception, and I almost cracked up when I saw the text of the statute.

I think we reached consensus on drafting nightmare that works ok, and that neither of us intended to pass the stopped school bus anyway. I like the get off the bike and walk it suggestion and am amused that it never occurred to me being as constitutionally adverse to walking my bike as I am..
Yeah, for the record. There are requirements for PRACTICING law. I don't meet them. Mere mortals such as me can read a law and CORRECTLY understand what it means. (But, pendants.) Mere mortals can also change law.

(In fairness, mere mortals can also misread law. See, oh, no, won't go there, P&R exile comment.)

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 07:03 PM
  #36  
_ForceD_
Sr Member on Sr bikes
 
_ForceD_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rhode Island (sometimes in SE Florida)
Posts: 2,306

Bikes: Several...from old junk to new all-carbon.

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked 762 Times in 409 Posts
This discussion got me thinking about bikes stopping, or not stopping for school busses with their stop sign deployed in states that have the “Idaho Stop Law.” The Idaho version of the law doesn’t mention school busses with stop signs deployed. But does say it should be safely done.

https://legislature.idaho.gov/statut...h7/sect49-720/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop

Some say the stop sign was never intended for bicycles

https://www.vox.com/2014/5/9/5691098...signs-and-ride



Dan
_ForceD_ is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 09:44 PM
  #37  
caloso
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times in 1,417 Posts
Pendants?
caloso is offline  
Old 03-25-22, 08:40 AM
  #38  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by caloso
Pendants?

If I have to be something that goes around a neck, I'd rather be an albatross.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 03-25-22, 08:43 AM
  #39  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill
Yeah, for the record. There are requirements for PRACTICING law.

-mr. bill
For the record, I never thought you were an attorney. That was the other guys.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 04-09-22, 03:48 PM
  #40  
homeless in ca.
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 41 Posts
I treat stop signs like yield signs, red lights like stop signs, and school buses with the same courtesy I expect drivers to show me and my kid.
homeless in ca. is offline  
Old 04-09-22, 05:35 PM
  #41  
hotbike
Senior Member
 
hotbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 3,749

Bikes: a lowrider BMX, a mountain bike, a faired recumbent, and a loaded touring bike

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 74 Posts
I’ve been informed that bicycles are exempt from having to stop for a stopped school bus, but I haven’t seen it in print.
hotbike is offline  
Old 04-09-22, 07:15 PM
  #42  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by hotbike
I’ve been informed that bicycles are exempt from having to stop for a stopped school bus, but I haven’t seen it in print.

Varies by state. I checked the NY statutes and I think you are correct in NY. Per NY law, a bicycle is not a vehicle, and the no passing law applies to drivers of vehicles.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 04-10-22, 05:49 AM
  #43  
work4bike
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,926
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3743 Post(s)
Liked 1,018 Times in 768 Posts
I would think that there should at least be a law requiring cyclists to slow way down when passing buses...seeing as how many pedestrians have been hit by speeding cyclists on MUPs and in crosswalks. Maybe one day I'll get around to checking my own state law on this topic, I do know the laws, in general, but never remember seeing anything about stopping for school buses. I always stop, so whatever the law says I know I'm not outside the law.
work4bike is online now  
Old 04-10-22, 06:24 AM
  #44  
work4bike
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,926
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3743 Post(s)
Liked 1,018 Times in 768 Posts
Originally Posted by work4bike
I would think that there should at least be a law requiring cyclists to slow way down when passing buses...seeing as how many pedestrians have been hit by speeding cyclists on MUPs and in crosswalks. Maybe one day I'll get around to checking my own state law on this topic, I do know the laws, in general, but never remember seeing anything about stopping for school buses. I always stop, so whatever the law says I know I'm not outside the law.
Of course this post bugged me, so I re-read my state laws concerning cyclists, to see if they say anything about bikes approaching school buses and there is no Special Regulations, that specifically address that particular scenario. However, they do open with this statement.

That tells me that I am required to stop for school buses; however, I could pass at a very slow speed, based on the very last part of that sentence. Clearly, if I walked my bike I'd be in compliance with the law, but if I rode past, then you're getting into interpretation. I choose to stop and wait.


P.S. In Florida we cyclists are considered a vehicle if operating on the roadways, but not if we're operating on the sidewalk.


Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

316.2065 Bicycle regulations.—
(1) Every person propelling a vehicle by human power has all of the rights and all of the duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under this chapter, except as to special regulations in this chapter, and except as to provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application.

Last edited by work4bike; 04-10-22 at 06:30 AM.
work4bike is online now  
Old 04-11-22, 08:24 AM
  #45  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by work4bike
Of course this post bugged me, so I re-read my state laws concerning cyclists, to see if they say anything about bikes approaching school buses and there is no Special Regulations, that specifically address that particular scenario. However, they do open with this statement.

That tells me that I am required to stop for school buses; however, I could pass at a very slow speed, based on the very last part of that sentence. Clearly, if I walked my bike I'd be in compliance with the law, but if I rode past, then you're getting into interpretation. I choose to stop and wait.


P.S. In Florida we cyclists are considered a vehicle if operating on the roadways, but not if we're operating on the sidewalk.


Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

The Florida stop for the bus statute applies to "vehicles", so yes you are obligated to stop for the bus if you're on a bike in the street. I guess you could legally pass on the sidewalk.

My state defines bicycles as vehicles and prohibits vehicles from sidewalks.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 04-11-22, 09:07 AM
  #46  
work4bike
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,926
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3743 Post(s)
Liked 1,018 Times in 768 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
The Florida stop for the bus statute applies to "vehicles", so yes you are obligated to stop for the bus if you're on a bike in the street. I guess you could legally pass on the sidewalk.

My state defines bicycles as vehicles and prohibits vehicles from sidewalks.
Yes, no state law against riding a bike on the sidewalk in Florida; however, Florida cities can have an ordinance against cycling on the sidewalk.

Curious, does your state allow kids of a certain age to ride on the sidewalk?

This is kind of an interesting quick look at various state laws concerning bikes on sidewalks....but I don't know how up to date it is

https://bikefinest.com/is-it-illegal...and%20Maryland.



.
work4bike is online now  
Old 04-13-22, 08:07 AM
  #47  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by hotbike

Canadian school bus with two meter arm

Saw this today, a stop 🛑 sign on a two meter arm.
Great... but would not have stopped that pass on the RIGHT. That was just insane.

That young female driver should be not only fined but be required to attend some mandatory driver training... which apparently she either never got or forgot too quickly.
genec is offline  
Old 04-13-22, 08:11 AM
  #48  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
As a cyclist... I would stop for the stopped school bus, if for no other reason than to set an example for all the kids that may be watching from the bus.

Of course the flip side is that as a cyclist, and observer of traffic... I try to avoid routes that have school buses.
genec is offline  
Old 04-13-22, 11:06 AM
  #49  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,568 Times in 973 Posts
As a bike, yeah, I'd stop for sure! Or car.

The thing is, the penalties are still so light people don't seem to care. I commute past a middle school. There's a crossing guard and a 25mph school zone speed limit. I have seen parents headed to carpool at THAT school with their kids fly through the school zone at easily 50mph. When you don't GAF about the children at your own school versus any speeding/fine. The fine isn't steep enough.

I love how NYC got so fed up with joyriding 4-wheelers and dirtbikes they started crushing them on the spot, but it's OK to speed thru a school zone or past a stopped school bus and risk murdering children. Not speaking of NYC there for the school zone, just presenting a more "rapid and extreme" penalty.

The penalties have to get steeper. I'd say passing a stopped bus or speeding in a school zone, first offense.........weekender in the country jail and lose license for a month. That'll make it stop.
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 04-13-22, 12:04 PM
  #50  
work4bike
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,926
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3743 Post(s)
Liked 1,018 Times in 768 Posts
I have two school zones I pass every day in the morning with lights flashing that signal to slow down from 45-mph to 20-mph. I always take the lane, since I can maintain the speed limit, and if I see a car, in my mirror, going at a speed fast enough to pass me at a significant rate, I take that lane, just to piss him off.

It's the little things that make life worth living...


work4bike is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.