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Best wheel option for old race frame?

Old 04-25-22, 06:58 PM
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Best wheel option for old race frame?

I have an old race frame, Reynolds 531 British made. Zero braze ons and made for 27” wheels. My goal is to see how light of a build I can do, just for fun. What’s my best option, 27” wheels or 700c with long reach brakes? Thanks
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Old 04-25-22, 07:07 PM
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Tubular wheelsets will result in your lightest option. Sounds like you're building it around a heavyish touring frameset.
So you're starting with a fairly severe handicap. I like the project - don't get me wrong - but it could get costly.
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Old 04-25-22, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by roadcrankr
Tubular wheelsets will result in your lightest option. Sounds like you're building it around a heavyish touring frameset.
So you're starting with a fairly severe handicap. I like the project - don't get me wrong - but it could get costly.

Its a race frame, very tight geometry with no braze ons or eyelets.
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Old 04-25-22, 07:11 PM
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Fixed gear with no brakes...or derailleurs.
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Old 04-25-22, 07:40 PM
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Not the best but if you want light a vintage set of Mavic CXP 10 clinchers are some of the lightest you can get with a set of these setup with light tires and single speed setup . I Have got my old Nishiki down to a lean 22-23lbs and it's a big bike with some dorkage and lower end frame set.
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...fdfe5&Enum=107


The 40+ year old lower end Nishiki still looks and rides great.
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Old 04-25-22, 08:00 PM
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sloar,
I can get you where it is pretty darned close to light weight with good handling. I currently have on hand a set of LP18 27" X1" rims and a set of 27X1 tires that should have it running true to original. These are NOS and 32* rims they just need the hubs to lace them up. Perhaps some Campy 32 record hubs? Got you covered there also. I would have to do some calculations and order some spokes but it would be worth the trip to Bloomington to get you set up. Smiles, MH (812-336-3283)
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Old 04-25-22, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sloar
Its a race frame, very tight geometry with no braze ons or eyelets.
For the life of me, I cannot think of a single race frame that came with 27" wheels.
Inquiring minds would dearly appreciate photos.
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Old 04-26-22, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by sloar
What’s my best option, 27” wheels or 700c with long reach brakes? Thanks
700c with long reach brakes for sure.
27" wheelsets that are light and good quality really arent common for a reason. And lightweight narrow 27" tires really arent common for a reason.

700c was the size for lightweight and quality wheelsets as well as lightweight and quality tires.

Also, the TRP957 brake has a reach of 57mm and weighs less than current generation Shimano 105 r7000 caliper brakes.
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Old 04-26-22, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
700c with long reach brakes for sure.
27" wheelsets that are light and good quality really arent common for a reason. And lightweight narrow 27" tires really arent common for a reason.

700c was the size for lightweight and quality wheelsets as well as lightweight and quality tires.

Also, the TRP957 brake has a reach of 57mm and weighs less than current generation Shimano 105 r7000 caliper brakes.
All of this
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Old 04-26-22, 08:08 AM
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You want to get a pair of tubular wheels. Any clincher rim is heavier because the arms that come up from the box section of the rim to hold the tire bead adds weight. And makes the tire less compliant - which translates into being less comfortable and more likely to get pinch flats. Before the later part of the 70's all good bikes used tubulars. 27" wheels/tires were big and heavy and clunky by comparison.

The lightest 700c clincher rims weighed over 400 grams each. Mavic came out with the 1st ones around 1976? There are many classic era tubular rims that weigh less than 300 grams each. If you bike is older than 1975, it would have come with tubular wheels.

The good news is that nice tubular wheels are inexpensive because the demand is for clinchers. Tubulars are like stick shift cars, they work great but people without any experience using them don't want them.
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Old 04-26-22, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by roadcrankr
For the life of me, I cannot think of a single race frame that came with 27" wheels.
Inquiring minds would dearly appreciate photos.
Just to provide a data point: my Zunow from the mid eighties came with 27 x 1 Araya rims. It has a full Dura Ace 7400 group. Haven't weighed it, but it's light and fast.

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Old 04-26-22, 09:35 AM
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I have some narrow Super Champion Gentleman rims 27", but they are still 430 grams.. light 27" tires? decades ago there were.
"Tight geometry" to me means that 700c will work, regular reach brakes?
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Old 04-26-22, 09:51 AM
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Question for Doug Fattic and cycling historians - weren't 27" tubular wheels and tires made for the British market in small amounts so those with 27" wheel frames could race and time trial? No, I am not suggesting setting up a bike now to do that. I'd be willing to own and ride a museum worthy frame, but not risk my life to museum worthy rubber (and finding 27" tubulars that old that are museum worthy - good luck!)
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Old 04-26-22, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by bargo68
Just to provide a data point: my Zunow from the mid eighties came with 27 x 1 Araya rims. It has a full Dura Ace 7400 group. Haven't weighed it, but it's light and fast.

interesting the brake blocks on those 7400 series calipers are all the way down...
would have to retrograde to EX or original DA to fit 700c
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Old 04-26-22, 10:25 AM
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If you want a lightweight bike, 700c is the way to go. Nobody makes lightweight 27" tires any more
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Old 04-26-22, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage
I have some narrow Super Champion Gentleman rims 27", but they are still 430 grams.. light 27" tires? decades ago there were.
"Tight geometry" to me means that 700c will work, regular reach brakes?

I tried 700c with regular calipers and they were too short. That’s why I’m asking for opinions, looks like 700’s with long reach calipers are my best choice.
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Old 04-26-22, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by bargo68
Just to provide a data point: my Zunow from the mid eighties came with 27 x 1 Araya rims. It has a full Dura Ace 7400 group. Haven't weighed it, but it's light and fast.
That's one absolutely sweet bike! Still, the OP's strategy involves making the lightest bike possible.
Your Panaracer 27" tires weigh 320 grams each. Adding a tube and rimstrip put another 100 grams on there.
The lightest rims (27" vs 700c/tubular) increase the differential more. We're talking a rotating weight of 200 grams more for each wheel.
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Old 04-26-22, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sloar
I tried 700c with regular calipers and they were too short. That’s why I’m asking for opinions, looks like 700’s with long reach calipers are my best choice.
OK, but many today call what were "regular" reach, long reach now.
Myself, being hyper concerned by aesthetics, get a different frame set.
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Old 04-26-22, 11:12 AM
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It’s a very cool Knight frame. I definitely want to keep it and build it up. I guess what I used were more of a short reach caliper.
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Old 04-26-22, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Question for Doug Fattic and cycling historians - weren't 27" tubular wheels and tires made for the British market in small amounts so those with 27" wheel frames could race and time trial? No, I am not suggesting setting up a bike now to do that. I'd be willing to own and ride a museum worthy frame, but not risk my life to museum worthy rubber (and finding 27" tubulars that old that are museum worthy - good luck!)
If they made an equivalent tubular size to a 27 X 1 1/4" tire, I never heard of them. British time trailing was a popular sport and cyclists would ride to the start of a race with their "training wheels" and then put on their lighter more fragile racing wheels for the time trial. I've always assumed those training wheels were tubular with just heavier rims and tires. Otherwise you would have to move the brake blocks. British cyclists tended to be poor so they had to take care of their good wheels. I'm not saying larger tubulars didn't exist, I just never heard of them.

I started riding tubulars in 1966/67. We even toured on them until the late 70's when lightweight 700C clinchers with Mavic rims and Michelin tires becomes available. 27 X 1 1/4" tires were heavy by comparison. I don't remember any light ones before the mid 70's but that doesn't mean they didn't exist.

When I went to the XB3 bicycle factory in Kharkov (a major Ukrainian city few people ever heard of until recently) in 2000. I was surprised they designated their tubular racing bike as having 27" wheels. Yes written just like that - 27".
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Old 04-26-22, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sloar
I have an old race frame, Reynolds 531 British made. Zero braze ons and made for 27” wheels. My goal is to see how light of a build I can do, just for fun. What’s my best option, 27” wheels or 700c with long reach brakes? Thanks
How old is your bike? BITD (think sixties and seventies) in Britain "racing bikes" came with 27 x 1 1/4, but bikes that were actually raced used "sprints and tubs" from The Continent, which were 700C. The introduction of lightweight Mavic rims and Michelin's Elan high-pressure clinchers, in '75 or so, made it possible to ride to the race on your clinchers and then replace them with your racing wheels without having to adjust the brake reach.

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Old 04-26-22, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Question for Doug Fattic and cycling historians - weren't 27" tubular wheels and tires made for the British market in small amounts so those with 27" wheel frames could race and time trial? No, I am not suggesting setting up a bike now to do that. I'd be willing to own and ride a museum worthy frame, but not risk my life to museum worthy rubber (and finding 27" tubulars that old that are museum worthy - good luck!)
I thought "27-inch" was just what they called regular-sized tubulars in the UK.
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Old 04-26-22, 12:06 PM
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my vote is for tubular.... think something like mavic gel 330 if you are not to heavy (i have set best ride ever even with just ok tubies...but I am too heavy for them....PM if interested)
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Old 04-29-22, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
I thought "27-inch" was just what they called regular-sized tubulars in the UK.
They also call them "sprints." But for sure some people called tubular wheels 27” wheels/tires. The original spec sheet and receipt for my 1954 Drysdale, written out and signed by Alvin himself, specified 27" Vianzone (sic!) rims... meaning tubulars.
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Old 04-30-22, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
How old is your bike? BITD (think sixties and seventies) in Britain "racing bikes" came with 27 x 1 1/4, but bikes that were actually raced used "sprints and tubs" from The Continent, which were 700C. The introduction of lightweight Mavic rims and Michelin's Elan high-pressure clinchers, in '75 or so, made it possible to ride to the race on your clinchers and then replace them with your racing wheels without having to adjust the brake reach.

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