Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Negative chain stretch?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Negative chain stretch?

Old 04-24-22, 07:23 PM
  #1  
qwaalodge
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Kingdom of Qwaa
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked 79 Times in 61 Posts
Negative chain stretch?

My current chain seems to maintaining a negative chain stretch of less than 1/16 inch. The chain is correctly tensioned by the rear derailleur (does not sag a bit) and I'm using Stanley branded rule. I even used no-brand made in China rule and gave me the same measurement.

I measured it upon installation from the box and did have negative stretch back then but now, over 1000 miles later, it still had negative stretch. In fact, the amount of stretch did not seem to change at all.

No chain skipping, no issues, no problems just thought it seems weird because the Parktool channel in YT did not mention anything of that sort.
qwaalodge is offline  
Old 04-24-22, 07:36 PM
  #2  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times in 1,422 Posts
The is why you don’t put chains in the dryer.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 04-24-22, 08:02 PM
  #3  
Chuck M 
Happy With My Bikes
 
Chuck M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2,185

Bikes: Hi-Ten bike boomers, a Trek Domane and some projects

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 867 Post(s)
Liked 2,277 Times in 1,099 Posts
Originally Posted by qwaalodge
I measured it upon installation from the box and did have negative stretch back then but now, over 1000 miles later, it still had negative stretch. In fact, the amount of stretch did not seem to change at all.
What is your chain cleaning lubrication schedule? You probably just aren't wearing it out as it is well lubricated.
__________________
"It is the unknown around the corner that turns my wheels." -- Heinz Stücke

Chuck M is offline  
Old 04-24-22, 08:28 PM
  #4  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,879

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3905 Post(s)
Liked 7,181 Times in 2,905 Posts
We're talking about shrinkage, right?
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 04-24-22, 08:38 PM
  #5  
qwaalodge
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Kingdom of Qwaa
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked 79 Times in 61 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
We're talking about shrinkage, right?
It already had negative stretch upon first installation.
qwaalodge is offline  
Old 04-24-22, 08:57 PM
  #6  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,764
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6881 Post(s)
Liked 10,871 Times in 4,636 Posts
Your posts have negative value, too. So, they have something in common with your chain.
Koyote is online now  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 04-24-22, 08:58 PM
  #7  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times in 1,422 Posts
Originally Posted by qwaalodge
It already had negative stretch upon first installation.
Then “negative stretch” just means “short”?

Maybe “negative long” would be a better term?
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:
Old 04-24-22, 09:07 PM
  #8  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,051
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,277 Times in 7,225 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
We're talking about shrinkage, right?
Like a frightened turtle.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 04-24-22, 09:07 PM
  #9  
Bryan C. 
nothing to see here
 
Bryan C.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Antioch, CA
Posts: 564
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Liked 145 Times in 78 Posts
A clear case of chain envy.
Bryan C. is offline  
Old 04-24-22, 09:14 PM
  #10  
badger1
Senior Member
 
badger1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 5,089
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1563 Post(s)
Liked 1,151 Times in 587 Posts
Spring is always a very strange season here on teh Biek Forms, but this spring has seemed especially odd here in 'General'. Strange threads popping up all over the place; one could be forgiven for thinking that we have been teleported to a

badger1 is online now  
Old 04-24-22, 09:20 PM
  #11  
qwaalodge
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Kingdom of Qwaa
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked 79 Times in 61 Posts
Originally Posted by Chuck M
What is your chain cleaning lubrication schedule? You probably just aren't wearing it out as it is well lubricated.
The last time I lubed the chain with motor oil was around 700 miles ago. Late December or January I think. I kept wiping the chain down (also including the jockey wheels, and chain ring) after every ride until 400 to 300 miles ago and then I stopped doing any maintenance to the chain, stopped wiping it down too except for periodic stretch measurement. The chain has gone through few rides in strong rain since the last lube job including 20 miles ride in very fine, very dry, very dusty/sandy gravel. I have full fenders on my bike and 1x drivetrain but the chain is fully exposed.

Currently, the chain looks out-of-the-box clean. But the chainring and cassette teeth are covered by very thin film of dry and very fine black soot. This soot has formed a hard and dry compacted layer at the chainring tooth in contact with the chain rollers. This soot is mostly absent on the chain, making the chain look clean. Only present in the contact surface between the inner and outer plates, hardly noticeable unless you take a very close look.
qwaalodge is offline  
Old 04-24-22, 09:32 PM
  #12  
qwaalodge
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Kingdom of Qwaa
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked 79 Times in 61 Posts
Originally Posted by Kapusta
Then “negative stretch” just means “short”?

Maybe “negative long” would be a better term?
"Short" can also mean less # of links so I have to say "stretch"
qwaalodge is offline  
Old 04-24-22, 09:36 PM
  #13  
qwaalodge
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Kingdom of Qwaa
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked 79 Times in 61 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
Like a frightened turtle.
Have you updated your Iggy list yet?
qwaalodge is offline  
Old 04-24-22, 10:08 PM
  #14  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,768

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1935 Post(s)
Liked 2,148 Times in 1,312 Posts
I’ve often wondered if backpedaling counteracts the typical stretch/wear that occurs during normal riding.

Can enough backpedaling return a chain to its original state?

Personally I doubt it does so maybe that just means I’m backpeddling.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Likes For 70sSanO:
Old 04-25-22, 04:40 AM
  #15  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Paul Barnard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,843

Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2131 Post(s)
Liked 1,639 Times in 822 Posts
Negative stretch almost always results from a combination on non-synthetic motor oil and too much coasting. I forget which book I read that in. That is often accompanied by an insufficient amount of guadpower.
Paul Barnard is offline  
Likes For Paul Barnard:
Old 04-25-22, 04:55 AM
  #16  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Obviously, nanobots are adding metal to the chain.

You're measuring wrong. No one here is going to figure out how and it's not causing any problems, so let it go.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 04-25-22, 05:25 AM
  #17  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,051
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,277 Times in 7,225 Posts
Originally Posted by qwaalodge
Have you updated your Iggy list yet?
Yes. You and your sock(s) are now on it.
indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 04-25-22, 05:53 AM
  #18  
DaveSSS 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,212

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 554 Times in 443 Posts
Sounds like a case of improper measurement. Chains are made accurately enough that you should never be able to see any length difference over 12 inches, with a new chain. Place one end of the rule on the edge of a pin. The pin at the other end should be completely covered when new. After some use, the covered pin exposure increases. I have a full length measurement setup that can show small differences over 54-55 inches. Campy chains are extremely consistent. The new sram axs chains, not as consistent. I've used a Campy chain for 6,000 miles and measured very little elongation over the full length, but the roller wear was huge and the side clearances were twice that of a new chain. When a second chain was installed on the cassette, there was new-chain skip. Don't rely only on checks of elongation. Some sram axs users are reporting similar extremely low elongation, but those users will get new-chain skip too. I alternate the use of 4 chains and will never get new-chain skip.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 04-25-22, 06:25 AM
  #19  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times in 1,422 Posts
Its shrinkflation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkflation
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:
Old 04-25-22, 07:25 AM
  #20  
spelger
Senior Member
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 2,274

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1122 Post(s)
Liked 1,170 Times in 682 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
We're talking about shrinkage, right?
so don't use it it the pool?
spelger is offline  
Old 04-25-22, 08:00 AM
  #21  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,497

Bikes: Sekine 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1477 Post(s)
Liked 637 Times in 436 Posts
Just as confusing as negative deceleration.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 04-25-22, 08:15 AM
  #22  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,764
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6881 Post(s)
Liked 10,871 Times in 4,636 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
Like a frightened turtle.
Originally Posted by spelger
so don't use it it the pool?
Koyote is online now  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 04-25-22, 08:20 AM
  #23  
Mojo31
-------
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Tejas
Posts: 12,619
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9522 Post(s)
Liked 6,266 Times in 3,454 Posts
Originally Posted by 70sSanO
I’ve often wondered if backpedaling counteracts the typical stretch/wear that occurs during normal riding.

Can enough backpedaling return a chain to its original state?

Personally I doubt it does so maybe that just means I’m backpeddling.

John
It seemed to work for Ferris Bueller.

Until it didn't.
Mojo31 is offline  
Likes For Mojo31:
Old 04-25-22, 09:32 AM
  #24  
qwaalodge
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Kingdom of Qwaa
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked 79 Times in 61 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Obviously, nanobots are adding metal to the chain.

You're measuring wrong. No one here is going to figure out how and it's not causing any problems, so let it go.
I did the same as the video below. I see if I can take a snapshot in a day or two. You'll be impressed with the chain's condition.

qwaalodge is offline  
Old 04-25-22, 09:44 AM
  #25  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,240
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4221 Post(s)
Liked 1,321 Times in 916 Posts
Originally Posted by qwaalodge
I did the same as the video below. I see if I can take a snapshot in a day or two. You'll be impressed with the chain's condition.
What chain? What bike?

The tolerances of the standard manufacturers are such that what you are claiming seems "far fetched".
njkayaker is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.