Eric F 

Been there.

rsbob 

Glad to see you have a sense of humor. Been there done that more times than I can count.

tFUnK

Since much of the thread has been on the academic side, let's consider an extreme example: on performance/function alone I think for non-TT riding, most folks would prefer a 1500g shallow box section wheelset over a 1900g disc (or very deep dish) wheelset. So interpolate this to a 1500g 34mm wheelset compared to a 1900g 50mm wheelset, and I think it tips in favor of the 1500g wheelset even more.

Jughed

I don't know. I am a larger rider - 195# with decent peak/acceleration power output. The extra few watts it takes to spool up heavier wheels may not have the same impact on me as it does on a light/smaller rider with a different power profile. The overall % in weight savings from my total system weight of say 220# - vs a system weight of 150#'s.

Weight is what it is for me - too much. A pound or two on a bike makes very little impact.

Aero is my enemy. I am not fat, but have a large frontal profile/wide shoulders. I don't know if the aero savings from better wheels even makes that much difference % wise.

Germany_chris

A month or so ago I took my for foray into modern carbon era with these.

https://www.elite-wheels.com/product...ramic-bearing/

I got the extra light version, aluminum cassette, and 32mm RH extra light tires, while riding season isn't really here yet I do notice a difference in perceived effort with those wheels. I was expecting them to be a bit flexy and hard to control but the carbon spokes (I think) stiffen them up and while my wheels steered me once it's not happened again.

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Trakhak

From Sheldon Brown's site:

Wheel Stiffness Test

Among the various points discussed on that page:

"Some believe that a wheel built with tighter spokes is stiffer. It is not. Wheel stiffness does not vary significantly with spoke tension unless a spoke becomes totally slack. "

seypat

Me too. Shiny beats dull black every day of the week.

GhostRider62

I have a 55mm wheelset that weighs 1375 grams and even my cheapest deep carbon wheels are just over 1700.

I would don't ride box section aluminum rims because the aerodynamics suck and they tend not to hold trueness anywhere as good as a carbon rim.

The weight penalty going from 35mm to 50mm is nowhere near 400 grams, check your assumption

tomato coupe

Your "interpolation" escapes me. Your first choice is most certainly made for reasons other than weight, while your second choice is almost purely based on weight.

PeteHski

I agree that you will gain more from the aero, but I wouldn't buy any wheelset with 17 mm internal rims today. I would focus on tyre choice in the 28-30 mm wide range and get wheels with 20+ wide internal rims to match. Whether they are 35 or 50 mm deep is not that critical really.

terrymorse 

Follow up questions:
Why avoid rims with 17mm internal width?
Does that 17mm width limit your ability to mount different tire sizes?
Does the wider rim provide certain advantages?

Light Bicycle posts this rim width guide:



Source: lightbicycle.com

The center "sweet spot" tire size range for a 17-19 mm rim is 28-33 mm.

Jughed

The 17mm wheels are sold... so not a concern anymore.

I've actually been teetering on spending the money on a bike fit instead. I think my biggest problem is position and lack of being aero. I am wasting a bunch of power on pushing air - fixing this could be a macro gain, vs spending $$$ on marginal gains.

Eric F 

Until the wind starts blowing sideways - lol. The wheels on my #1 road bike are 35mm(ish) front and 45mm(ish) rear. They do pretty well in crosswinds. My 50mm wheels, however, not so much. The front end gets yanked around pretty severely. In non-crosswind conditions, however, the difference doesn't seem like much, if anything.

Years ago, I borrowed a friend's set of Mavic Cosmic Carbone wheels - an early deep-section carbon/aluminum structure. They were heavy, and a bit sluggish to accelerate . However, once spinning fast, the flywheel effect was dramatic, and it felt like they were pulling you along.

PeteHski

I think that info is outdated. I have a pair of Giant carbon SLR rims that are 17 mm internal and indeed I can fit 32 mm tubeless tyres. But the profile looks like a mushroom and they squirm more than I would like at lower pressure. It works but is not ideal. Aero is going to suffer as well with the mushroom profile.

I also have a pair of DT Swiss wheels with 22 mm internal width, fitted with 30 mm tyres and they are a much better match. There's no way I would buy narrow rims at this point unless I was still running narrow tyres.

I'm not suggesting it's a huge deal, but it doesn't make sense to buy a new set of narrow rims if you intend to be riding 28mm+ tyres.

PeteHski

Good point. I only have first hand experience of up to 35 mm wheels. I've ridden these in very windy conditions and they were fine.

Eric F 

Newer rim profiles might fare better (just guessing). My 50mm wheels are older Shimano C50s.

Maelochs

I read somewhere (too uninterested to look it up) that one of the biggest aero losses with wheels/tires were the vortices generated by the air hitting a wide tire and then sucking into the lower-pressure area of the narrow rim, and that while ogive rim section might be optimal, even a box-section rim was good if the tire and rim were the same width, and no amount of "aero" depth wade up for fat tires on skinny rims .... in short, match mounted tire width the rim width for a smooth transition if you wanted to gain any aero benefit from rim shape.

That is possibly part of the wider rim cross-sections (inner and outer widths) we have been seeing in the past several years---mushroom tires on skinny wheels suck, literally.

Eric F 

I have read this same thing from multiple sources.

tFUnK

Not disputing what you're saying here. But we're specifically comparing a 34mm wheel with modern aero profile against a 50mm wheel with traditional aero profile, with a 400g difference. I guess what I'm saying is I don't think the 50mm wheel gives you more aero, certainly not enough to outweigh (no pun intended) the 400g difference. If you stop and go a lot or like to chase moves, the 200g per wheel difference is noticeable on accelerations.

tFUnK

Those numbers were taken from OP.

rsbob 

Found this article rather interesting: https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/w...tweight-wheels

PeteHski

I just take the middle ground with 35 mm 1477g aero wheels (DT Swiss ERC 1400). 22mm internal width (perfect profile for 28-30 mm tyres) and unaffected by crosswinds. Most of my local routes have lots of short, steep punchy climbs and my key annual events involve 4000m+ climbing, so I'm happy with this compromise. My one major flat event ends up in a large peloton, so I don't see much point in deeper section rims there either. Might save several seconds per hour if I got dropped!

seypat

OP is a larger rider looking for aero advice and nobody mentions the aero gut? The forum is slipping.

CrowSeph

i had 50mm wheels for 1390g and they were awsome.
Now i have 35mm for 1600g (disks) and they are awsome.

i think your best choice will be the Hunt since they are light and 35mm is fair enought for all round type of riding and the SIDEWIND will not make you fly.
Also you can think abouth use both combination, the front wheel with a light setup and a lower profile and the back more aero and a bit heavier... but you must buy different wheel or start assembly by yourself.

Jughed

It works on big ships. A beachball under my jersey = 1.5 kph at 350w, per GCN.