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Slightly Marinated Moulton

Old 12-09-22, 08:28 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
...notice what could be a Brooks Professional on the one Dr. Moulton is pushing.
Dr. Moulton is the chap with the cap.
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Old 12-09-22, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
No need for springs in the saddle--- ---when there's full frame suspension!

Kurt, your Moulton needs to distance itself from the Huffy stigma and emulate the group ride photo in tcs post. I vote for GB drop bars, double cages with aluminum cork-topped bottles at the head tube, and notice what could be a Brooks Professional on the one Dr. Moulton is pushing. Classy and British through and through.
Agreed, that's why I like the idea of a B.72 despite being partial to the B.66 (and even selling off a B.72 earlier this year). No reason for a second bouncy device when the frame already is one.

Drop bars are for 531, Bob, and I've had my fill for now.

To be quite honest, the Moulton Mk.1's build construction is worthy of Huffy status and shouldn't have drop bars. If it's not stamped, it's bulge-formed on this thing, and where it's not bulge formed, it's crudely welded together (or brazed; not sure - it is messy enough to be ground-down stick welds. It is obvious it was built by BMC for Moulton and not a specialized bicycle manufacturer.

I'd probably be more satisfied with a Raleigh-built Mk.III for build quality, but I'm just not keen on the revised frame (or the fact that they raided the Twenty parts bin for everything when they built it).

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Old 12-09-22, 08:34 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
I vote for GB drop bars, double cages with aluminum cork-topped bottles at the head tube, and notice what could be a Brooks Professional...
Top factory spec F-frame Moulton S Safari

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Old 12-09-22, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
Otherwise, yours look pretty original. So many were subjected to Mods back in the day.
With exception to some obvious signs of use, someone did apparently try to take care of it.

Here's my favorite Moulton-themed image of pop culture. Peter Sellers and Goldie Hawn on the backlot of Shepperton Studios (trivia: The model-era of Thomas the Tank Engine was shot here for 25 years) while filming There's a Girl in My Soup. Moulton Super Deluxe Mk.II with a Dynohub.



Originally Posted by tcs
A gathering of Moulton enthusiasts...in Japan!
With a Defender 110 Heritage Edition no less.

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Old 12-09-22, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
Top factory spec F-frame Moulton S Safari
Do you have a closeup photo of those dropouts?

I'm also curious - does the RD require a lot of overshift with that length of chain between the upper jockey wheel and freewheel cogs?

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Old 12-09-22, 09:13 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by tcs
Top factory spec F-frame Moulton S Safari

I'm drooling over the "boot" and "bonnet" bags. I can make those.
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Old 12-09-22, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
I'm drooling over the "boot" and "bonnet" bags. I can make those.
Probably need a saddle bag too for the original toolkit

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Old 12-09-22, 01:10 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by cudak888
To be quite honest, the Moulton Mk.1's build construction is worthy of Huffy status and shouldn't have drop bars. If it's not stamped, it's bulge-formed on this thing, and where it's not bulge formed, it's crudely welded together (or brazed; not sure - it is messy enough to be ground-down stick welds. It is obvious it was built by BMC for Moulton and not a specialized bicycle manufacturer.
Quality is all over the place. The top models S Safari and S Speedsix were handbuilt in the stable block behind the Hall (Dr. Moulton's mansion) and were as finely crafted as anything being turned out of a contemporary small custom shop in the UK. Some of the subcontracted entry-level machines are cursed to this day by Moulton rebuilders* who have to grind, patch and rebraze the ~60-year-old machines to make them safe and reliable for a new generation of owners.

*Yes, that's a thing.
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Old 12-09-22, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs
Quality is all over the place. The top models S Safari and S Speedsix were handbuilt in the stable block behind the Hall (Dr. Moulton's mansion) and were as finely crafted as anything being turned out of a contemporary small custom shop in the UK. Some of the subcontracted entry-level machines are cursed to this day by Moulton rebuilders* who have to grind, patch and rebraze the ~60-year-old machines to make them safe and reliable for a new generation of owners.

*Yes, that's a thing.
Got any closeups of the joints on your Safari? Really curious now - makes me want to dig up an S-spec F-frame with an IGH. Took me long enough to dig this one up though, so I think I'll be placated for the meantime

I'm not surprised the subcontracts are a mess. The dropouts on my Huffy Mk.1 are brazed only on the bottom and the inside - the top is a void on both sides. Intentional. Swingarm tube mount is only welded halfway around too; just a mess all around and definitely worthy - if not below - Huffy status.

-Kurt
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Old 04-10-23, 08:01 PM
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I finally found a moment to tinker with this thing again and pull the FW for inspection. Just like the AG from the '57 Triumph, everything looks pretty new in here, and without any condensation rust either.



In the mineral spirit soup, along with the chain:



Went to the LBS and found one - one - new 3-speed replacement cable for Sturmey-Archer in the depths of the drawers, and it was just long enough to suit. Still have to get another for the '57 Triumph.

I noticed five or six of the Shimano 333 type cables languishing with it in the same drawer. Given the staying power of these Sturmey hubs, those cables will probably languish some more.

This was just before I soldered the brass sleeve onto the end. Worked a treat; I used liquid solder to get it started, then flowed a bit of silver solder into the tail end of the cable right up to the point it bubbled a bit at the other end. It's a strong bond and the adjuster doesn't bind on it. Cable housing is new too.



I took the final product out for a wet, nighttime spin around the block. No more hub engagement issues; the FW works just as good as the one in my '51.



The shifter cleaned up nice and shifts snappy. It's ever so slightly crunchy to the touch of the lever, so I'll probably hit it with some WD40 to get whatever junk is in there out, followed by a nice glob of 00 grease slathered in there.



The beast. No, not the Mustang, the Moulton. Only one has the 4-speed.

It rode well and has that nice, tight "new" feeling after what I've done to it. There's no mistaking the fact that it feels quite strange to ride though; it is not confidence-inspiring, which - strange as it sounds - might be influenced by the rack that doesn't steer with the front wheel, but appears to extend ahead of it when you're in the saddle. Be that as it may, I did enjoy it for the short time I took it out.



I made an exception on this bike and spun the saddle clamp rearwards this time to shorten up the effective top tube. I'm glad I did, as it helped overcome the stretched-out feel as before.

That's not to say the riding position is perfect, as it's still pretty aggressive for what this bike is supposed to be. Even the tilt on the mattress saddle betrays the slightly hunched over, MTB-like riding position, which I've never been keen on. However, it does suggest that a road bike saddle with a raised cantle plate - in other words, a B.17 - might be a good fit.



Another look at the finished cable. It's in first in the picture. Fourth is extremely slack, but it seems to like it, so who am I to argue with the great gods of IGH?



-Kurt
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Old 04-10-23, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
This is a '65 (FW is January 1965), US-spec model, one of the 5,000 (claimed production #, no idea where that number comes from and whether it's true or not) imported between '64-'65 and sold by Huffy here in the States. There's a small oval "Huffy" sticker that disgraces the seattube.
-Kurt
Ahh! It makes so much more sense now! We are both a part of the Huffy brotherhood!


It is a secretive, secluded society that few discuss publicly. Kinda like AA
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Old 04-10-23, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AdventureManCO
Ahh! It makes so much more sense now! We are both a part of the Huffy brotherhood!

It is a secretive, secluded society that few discuss publicly. Kinda like AA

-Kurt
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Old 04-11-23, 06:52 AM
  #38  
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Kurt, I mounted a similar front rack on my folding Dahon and experienced the same emotional response. Whoa! Something is not right! The rack points in one direction while the bike turns in another. It is very disconcerting at first.

How did the suspension system work?

My AM hub shift cable also has a great deal of slack in high. But if I try to adjust it out, shifting to neutral and low becomes lousy.

I'm really digging your Moulton. A Brooks B17 will be a great addition.
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Old 04-11-23, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Kurt, I mounted a similar front rack on my folding Dahon and experienced the same emotional response. Whoa! Something is not right! The rack points in one direction while the bike turns in another. It is very disconcerting at first.

How did the suspension system work?

My AM hub shift cable also has a great deal of slack in high. But if I try to adjust it out, shifting to neutral and low becomes lousy.

I'm really digging your Moulton. A Brooks B17 will be a great addition.
I'll have to pull the rack on the Moulton and try without it sometime, just as a test.

The suspension system is OK. I experienced more bouncing than I had initially remembered during last night's nighttime shakedown, but the reduction in visual stimuli might have had an effect on that. I tried to be careful with the cadence, but the rebound seemed harder to keep in check.

What surprises me is that this FW seems to want more slack than the one in my '51 Sports (which has a '56 [IIRC] FG in it). I haven't been bold enough to try taking out any of the slack yet, though at some point there may be diminishing returns with a difficult-to-engage 1st gear.

I don't recall if you've ever had an FW, Bob, but first on these hubs are fairly well known for requiring a bit of extra finger effort. The hub on my '51 ('56) is no exception when being pulled into first, but the Moulton's FW seems surprisingly complacent with its current adjustment. Granted, it could be that the '56 hub was rebuilt or substituted with a '52 or earlier spring pack (or complete internal mechanism) which is said to have stiffer springs per the Sturmey-Archer Heritage FW parts list (https://www.sturmey-archerheritage.co...s/pic-63.1.jpg), but whatever the case, the Moulton hub is happy when slacky.

Either that, or that oh-so-nice 00 grease just has everything working hunky-dory in there. This is the first time I've rebuilt an FW with 00 grease, so that might have something to do with it - which reminds me that I have two other FWs waiting in the wings to be put in something (note for anyone considering it: No, an FW does not fit in an SRF-3 shell).

I did make a bit of progress on the Moulton today: I took some hammers and framebuilding tools out and beat the rear rack silly. It's now straight(ish) again. I also opened up the holes where the rack had split apart, cleaned up some 1/8" rod, and bent two rods each to help jig up the broken section back onto the rack. A bit of brazing ought to get it back together as intended.

-Kurt
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Old 04-12-23, 07:10 AM
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Kurt, age is starting to catch up to you! Recall that you built my wheels for my pre-WWII Schwinn New World, and we used a FW and a SA high-flange front.



Eventually I ditched the crazy bars for normal ones, added fenders, and changed out the saddle to a Brooks with coil springs. My FW shifting is not bad, but like your experience with your '51, it is stiff and requires some effort.
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Old 04-12-23, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Kurt, age is starting to catch up to you! Recall that you built my wheels for my pre-WWII Schwinn New World, and we used a FW and a SA high-flange front.

Eventually I ditched the crazy bars for normal ones, added fenders, and changed out the saddle to a Brooks with coil springs. My FW shifting is not bad, but like your experience with your '51, it is stiff and requires some effort.
I completely forgot about that. Speaking of which, that reminds me - I need to get one of those truing stand centering tools; the old Park is finally out of alignment.

Pics of the current build?

-Kurt
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Old 04-12-23, 07:40 PM
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Too late for pictures, but I managed to straighten the bent kickstand and polish it up. The rubber foot had to be glued in place due to age, so I'm keeping it off the sidestand for one additional night.

Can't wait for this thing to stand on its own for once.

-Kurt
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Old 04-14-23, 03:05 PM
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Surprise, actual daytime photos of this thing, on its kickstand for the first time.







Two minutes after these pictures, an immense thunderstorm started. Someone doesn't want the Moulton to see the light of day.

The rear rack is currently mocked up for the necessary repairs with some rods inside to keep it aligned and act as the bit that will connect the wrecked tubes back together. Might happen this weekend, but it might not too.





-Kurt
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Old 04-17-23, 10:57 AM
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Believe it or not, this pain-making machine has an enigmatic draw to it that I can't explain. I've taken it for more shakedowns than I thought I would, whether it's been to examine the recent re-radiusing of an intersection, or delivering an eBay sale (which is strangely satisfying to do on this particular bike).





That said, I also managed to find out that the grease in the front hub has since left the building; last afternoon it started making its discontent known. I've since taken it apart. Bearing raceways are still happy, so the repack should be without issue.

Side note: Am I the only one who sees the center of a Moulton F-frame in the quarterized Union Jack that makes up the Negus-era British Airways tail livery?



-Kurt
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Old 04-17-23, 01:50 PM
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Ya know, Kurt, a Moulton would make a great little "shop bike" for the flight attendants on a 747.
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Old 04-17-23, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Ya know, Kurt, a Moulton would make a great little "shop bike" for the flight attendants on a 747.
It would. But I don't have a 747.

-Kurt
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Old 04-22-23, 10:42 PM
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I didn't let up riding this thing last weekend, until the sound of mechanical discontent started coming from the front end. It didn't take long to discover that a few of the front wheel bearings had decided to join the choir invisible.

Also, I found this. That's not a happy cone.




Luckily, we're in the Internet Age, meaning we have the benefit of "obscure crap on eBay." $18 later (a bit much, IMO, but what can you do?) put a pair of direct replacements in my hand. Both are identical for the RH side - fixed cone with no wrench flats. Only needed one, but seller was selling two as a pair.

I do wish I had put blue Loctite on this one just for ease of adjusting the whole mess afterwards, but I managed to get it happy.



In more visually interesting news, I decided to try an alternate type of OA bath: The soaked wet towel method. I read a thread or two that alluded to this being possible, but couldn't find anything definite or photos to show the results.

Well, I'm pleased to say it worked:




This is after two hours (nearly to the minute) of soaking. The paper towels had been triple folded and were previously dunked in a very concentrated bath of OA I mixed up in a small plastic container. I did the same with baking soda to neutralize the frame, then wiped it down with WD40 to help displace the water.

Full disclosure, these photos are after I dried the area, polished it with Meguiars #7 and sealed it with a wax, but this is essentially identical to how it looked after I wiped down the area following the baking soda neutralization.





Obviously it isn't perfect; there's still spiderwebbing - but it's a heck of a lot better, and I'll take patina every day over outright eradication of the original finish. Cheaper too

This should bode well for the removal of the remaining surface rust.

-Kurt
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Old 04-22-23, 11:26 PM
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Since we are both fixing up white Huffys, I have a special obligation to make sure your project is successful. Just holler if you need anything (except a sanity check, can't help you with that)
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Old 04-23-23, 08:51 PM
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Lots of progress today. Let me break the linearity of today's story and lead with some actual pictures of the OA towel soak method.







This was done about three hours ago, using the same tray of OA from yesterday. Had to add a bit of extra water, that's it. The rear fender towels were almost dried out in two hours, unlike the rest; thought that was a bit odd.

Now, before I show you the end result, let's back up to this afternoon at Mike Terraferma's shop, where the split rear rack was brazed back together. But first, some dent repairs:







And another dent repair:



Fixing the fubar'ed center joint:



More pictures in the next post.

Originally Posted by AdventureManCO
Since we are both fixing up white Huffys, I have a special obligation to make sure your project is successful. Just holler if you need anything (except a sanity check, can't help you with that)
No worries, keep praying to the patron saint of cheap Ohio labor and cheaper construction methods and we should be fine. Honestly, this Moulton might as well be crying out "I'm all right jack!" on behalf of the striking staff of the British Motor Corporation right along with your fine American brick-a...brick.

P.S.: I could use all the Campagnolo. Well, you did ask...

-Kurt
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Old 04-23-23, 09:03 PM
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The big bit: Getting the torn, curved joints filled again. It was harder than it sounds, given the amount of splaying at the ends of these tubes. But it's back together.



First pass. Not the final.



I don't know how long ago it broke, but the efforts of the person who made sure the broken part of the rack never left the bike were not in vain; they're back together again.

Meanwhile, we also tried torching off the blades on a wrecked Raleigh DL-1 fork. I thought the nails were no longer holding anything together, but we couldn't seem to get it to budge despite sufficiently melting the brass.



While completely irrelevant, somewhere in between all of this, I blew Mike's personal road frame apart in preparation for it's new 12 speed group. Yesterday we pulled the dead-stuck carbon fiber seatpost out of it using the inverted vise method.



This thing has one of the most fantastic Gary Cole paint jobs in existence on it.



But we're not here to discuss quality Raleigh products (now there's an oxymoron), or fabulous fillet-brazed masterpieces, we're here to comment on crappy Moulton F-frames. Here's the result of the first test pass with some basic finishing work on it.



Now that I've made you wade through a fair amount of non-Moulton content, here's what you've been waiting for - the results of the OA bath.

Well, thanks to forum picture count limitations...see next post...
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