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Indexed vs Friction Shifters

Old 06-06-23, 11:16 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
They are still obsolete.
You might want to check the definition of that before you continue to misuse it.

I don't know about steam engines, but there are millions of downtube shifters still being used here on Earth. And I think you can still buy new ones.
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Old 06-06-23, 12:47 PM
  #102  
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Obsolete
youtube.com/watch?v=zVXE30tGOsE
youtube.com/watch?v=4iOoiEbtf2w
I'm fine with that!
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Old 06-06-23, 01:16 PM
  #103  
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e

Originally Posted by SurferRosa
You might want to check the definition of that before you continue to misuse it.

I don't know about steam engines, but there are millions of downtube shifters still being used here on Earth. And I think you can still buy new ones.
Friction DT shifters are very much obsolete in general use. Just because you still find them in use on vintage bikes doesn't make them current. Neither does a niche market for new ones. You guys crack me up. Why does it bother you that they are obsolete anyway? I thought that was the whole point of C&V.
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Old 06-06-23, 01:29 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
They are still obsolete, just like steam engines. A nostalgic throwback to a past era with no relevance to anyone beginning their cycling journey in 2023 unless they specifically want a C&V bike pre mid 80s. Or perhaps someone bodging up a Frankendrivetrain of incompatible parts.
Jenson carries a current Shimano DT shifter. Microshift offers one and Velo Orange carries two Dia Comps. Rivendale carries a new power ratchet with what sounds like much finer ratcheting making useful for beyond 7-speed;

Sounds to me like they are less obsolete than gas stoves. My 2008 custom has Superbe DT friction. (Builder put threaded stops on the headtube that will stay as decorations or perhaps I can find another use. (Hold small flowers?)
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Old 06-06-23, 01:38 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Friction DT shifters are very much obsolete in general use.
Again, you might want to familiarize yourself with the real definition of that word before you continue to misuse it.

You also might want to check the popularity of the C&V subforum and the continued use of vintage bikes throughout the world. C&V continues to be one of the most popular sites on BF.
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Old 06-06-23, 01:42 PM
  #106  
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Old 06-06-23, 02:07 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
They are still obsolete, just like steam engines. A nostalgic throwback to a past era with no relevance to anyone beginning their cycling journey in 2023 unless they specifically want a C&V bike pre mid 80s. Or perhaps someone bodging up a Frankendrivetrain of incompatible parts.
Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Again, you might want to familiarize yourself with the real definition of that word before you continue to misuse it.

You also might want to check the popularity of the C&V subforum and the continued use of vintage bikes throughout the world. C&V continues to be one of the most popular sites on BF.
Well I did make that qualification in my original statement and I am quite aware of the popularity of C&V on this forum!
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Old 06-07-23, 01:43 AM
  #108  
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I can go out today and buy a brand new typewriter either manual or electric and buy ribbons for both however that doesn't mean that typewriters are not obsolete.

Friction shifters and typewriters can be handy in certain cases but that doesn't mean they're not obsolete.

Last edited by Germany_chris; 06-07-23 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 06-07-23, 02:51 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris
I can go out today and by a brand new typewriter either manual or electric and by ribbons for both however that doesn't mean that typewriters are not obsolete.

Friction shifters and typewriters can be handy in certain cases but that doesn't mean they are not obsolete.
Glad that someone gets this! If you go to your LBS and look at all the new bikes on sale, how many of them are going to feature DT friction shifters? None whatsoever. How many decades would you have to go back to start seeing new bikes with DT friction shifters? Even my mid-80s road bike had indexed DT shifters (Shimano 105) and they were definitely a marked improvement over friction shifting.

Friction DT shifters are obsolete as far as new bikes are concerned and have been for at least 30 years. But this seems to be a concern for some of the C&V guys on this thread. If they were still in mainstream use on modern bikes, along with all the other obsolete C&V gear, then C&V wouldn't really have any relevance. They would then just be old bikes with nothing to differentiate them from modern bikes.
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Old 06-07-23, 03:01 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Jenson carries a current Shimano DT shifter. Microshift offers one and Velo Orange carries two Dia Comps. Rivendale carries a new power ratchet with what sounds like much finer ratcheting making useful for beyond 7-speed;

Sounds to me like they are less obsolete than gas stoves. My 2008 custom has Superbe DT friction. (Builder put threaded stops on the headtube that will stay as decorations or perhaps I can find another use. (Hold small flowers?)
It is still obsolete technology, regardless. There is nearly always a niche market for obsolete technology.
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Old 06-07-23, 09:11 AM
  #111  
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Who uses typewriters still? Maybe a few folks to write personal letters.

Down tube shifters are used by millions of people.



See that last word, "used"?

If you're going to say down tube shifters are "obsolete," I guess gas engines are also obsolete.

In the same vein, I suppose bikes without batteries are also "obsolete."

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Old 06-07-23, 09:47 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Who uses typewriters still? Maybe a few folks to write personal letters.

Down tube shifters are used by millions of people.



See that last word, "used"?

If you're going to say down tube shifters are "obsolete," I guess gas engines are also obsolete.

In the same vein, I suppose bikes without batteries are also "obsolete."

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Do you know of any new bikes featuring DT friction shifters?

I made it very clear that DT shifters have their place in C&V, but they are obsolete on current bikes. But Im sure you can come up with some niche retro-build that still has them. Or can you?
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Old 06-07-23, 09:54 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Do you know of any new bikes featuring DT friction shifters?

I made it very clear that DT shifters have their place in C&V, but they are obsolete on current bikes. But Im sure you can come up with some niche retro-build that still has them. Or can you?
Bianchi L'Eroica

State Bicycle 4130 Road

Now I'm curious to see where the goal post gets moved to.

Last edited by smd4; 06-07-23 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 06-07-23, 10:22 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Bianchi L'Eroica

State Bicycle 4130 Road

Now I'm curious to see where the goal post gets moved to.
You have just moved the goalposts of what would be considered by most to be a new bike. This is literally a retro-replica of an obsolete bike.
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Old 06-07-23, 10:23 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
You have just moved the goalposts of what would be considered by most to be a new bike. This is literally a retro-replica of an obsolete bike.
"Those aren't new bikes. Even though, technically, they are brand-spankin' new. But they aren't made of CF. So really they're old bikes."

Gotcha. Thanks.

And you even asked, albeit sarcastically, to see a "niche retro-build."

Last edited by smd4; 06-07-23 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 06-07-23, 10:25 AM
  #116  
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A very fair amount of Soma bike frames are sold with down tube shifter boss', too.


Just because Trek, Special*ed, and Giant have abandoned something doesn't mean that it isn't available in the market anymore.

I have showed this picture before. I purposefully have not installed the optional IRD through-axle flat mount dropouts or through axle flat mount fork due to parts supply on hand for the build. I am glad such "obsolete" options were available.

This is a 100% 2022/2023 bicycle:

Soma Buena Vista by Richard Mozzarella, on Flickr

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Old 06-07-23, 10:28 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by base2
A very fair amount of Soma bike frames are sold with down tube shifter boss', too.
Exactly. Lots of bikes, including many "modern" steel frames, like the SuperCorsa, are built to accept downtube shifters, so people can install newly made (but, ahem, obsolete) DT shifters on the bikes they build from the frames up. Which many of us do, instead of buying pre-built production bikes.

Oh, right. But steel is "obsolete."
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Old 06-07-23, 10:37 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
I made it very clear ... they are obsolete on current bikes.
Now you're qualifying it. Well done.

And yeah, I could "come up with" examples of dt shifters on new frame builds if you need additional help.
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Old 06-07-23, 10:39 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by base2
This is a 100% 2022/2023 bicycle:

You sure that's not obsolete? 'Cause it looks old.
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Old 06-07-23, 10:48 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by smd4
You sure that's not obsolete? 'Cause it looks old.
It's "old" in appearance by design. Your comment is perfect, actually. Everything on it is new, produced either this year or last. Ie: Produced new and in current use. Therefore not obsolete as Pete is wrongly doubling down on the wrong definition of "obsolete." Sure, there are newer shifters & newer brake/axle standards available. But that by no means implies that any part of this bike fits the definition of obsolete as provided.
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Old 06-07-23, 10:49 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by base2
It's "old" in appearance by design. Your comment is perfect, actually. Everything on it is new, produced either this year or last. Ie: Produced new and in current use. Therefore not obsolete as Pete is wrongly doubling down on the wrong definition of "obsolete." Sure, there are newer shifters & newer brake/axle standards available. But that by no means implies that any part of this bike fits the definition of obsolete as provided.
I like it!
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Old 06-07-23, 10:54 AM
  #122  
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Old 06-07-23, 10:57 AM
  #123  
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DT shifters are definitely not obsolete---merely obsolescent, in the sense of "falling out of general use."
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Old 06-07-23, 10:58 AM
  #124  
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Old 06-07-23, 11:46 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Bianchi L'Eroica

State Bicycle 4130 Road

Now I'm curious to see where the goal post gets moved to.
You can also buy a brand new 1929 Blower Bentley - or you could a few years back - but that doesn't mean its technology isn't obsolete, as defined below (b).


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