Aardwolf

Hiya Folks,
I've been using a Crane bell for a while and it's great, but I have it mounted on the stem and it's the natural point to hold the bike
when I'm walking on a pavement etc. Predictably this tarnishes the brass bell dome quite quickly.

So I'm thinking how about a clear coat on the dome ? I've got some DecoArt DuraClear gloss varnish (polyurethane) that I've used
on most things. But I haven't tried clear coating brass before.

Anybody have a suggestion for what to use, or think this is a bad idea ?


Obligatory picture:

SJX426 

The bells get polished 2x/yr.
If the bell is not completely coated, then the interface or edge my allow for tarnish or corrosion to occur, especially under the washer of the nut.

P1050236 by Patrick Boulden, on Flickr

RustyJames 

I ain’t no musical wizard but I think if you coat the bell it will lose much of its glorious ring and sound a bit lifeless. Metal polish and wax.

Aardwolf

Yep, I am concerned about changing the glorious tone.
I'll try some Pledge then

Apparently polyurethane laquer is well known for sealing brass, but paint stripper will remove it.

RustyJames 

There are a few musicians lurking here so maybe they have some input. Do trumpets, saxes, etc have a coating?

Mr. 66

My Crane bell is fine without clear coat

Aardwolf

Nicely done, a quick search gives the following info on laquering Saxophones
https://sax.co.uk/blogs/news/does-it...part-2-lacquer

The part that I like isSo it looks like laquering a Crane Bell isn't going to affect the sound to a noticeable degree.

due ruote 

I believe they have a lacquer of some kind from the factory. Eventually that will wear down. I didn’t like the uneven spotty appearance that resulted, so I just went the opposite direction of the OP and stripped the lacquer. Now the brass naturally tarnishes evenly. I am fine with that; in fact I prefer it to the shiny look. Just another option.

madpogue 

Brass wind instruments don't ring. A closer analogy, anyway, would be to research coated / uncoated cymbals.

(Waiting to see how many posts until someone comes up with a clever "more cowbell" reference.....)

Aardwolf

More research, this time on cymbals:

From https://www.finishing.com/214/83p2.shtmlAnd that's from George Lawrence, drummer for Poco

So it looks like lacquering a bell shouldn't affect the sound too much.

himespau 

I have a copper crane bell that's going on my next bike build (saddle also has copper rails/rivets. I'm hoping that it will tarnish green with time. Probably some sort of coating (or low copper content) will prevent that from happening though.

Aardwolf

From Merriam-Webster
verdigris

noun
a green or greenish-blue poisonous pigment resulting from the action of acetic acid on copper and consisting of one or more basic copper acetates

So you should be able to create it youself, and sure enough there's instructions on the web:
https://www.frugalfamilytimes.com/20...-green-patina/

Obvously try it on something else first

himespau 

Thanks. I've read about using diluted white vinegar to green up copper bells, but am not sure if there is a coating on top. Your tarnishing experience says not (all my other Crane bells are annodized black).

Aardwolf

I seem to have found a solution, and I can't hear any difference in the bell tone.

I tried polyurethane varnish but it didn't want to stick to the brass.

Then I got some of this: Rustins Metal Lacquer
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/..._title_o00_s00

Two coats of that and a ride later:



You can see the hand muck on the surface, but it just wipes off - no need to polish it

Dylansbob 

I wanted a more patina'd bell for an equally scruffy looking bike, so I took the last one I bought apart and put the dome in one of the cat's litter boxes for a few days. After cleaning it, it looked "right" for the bike.

P!N20

Awesome. My daughter's bike has a Crane bell that doesn't stay shiny for long, good to know there's a solution!

Wondering how it goes on chrome?

Aardwolf

According to the product info it should work on chrome:

• Has excellent adhesion on chrome, brass, copper and silver.

On the bottle is says "not suitable for mild and stainless steel"

Aardwolf

Update: got a new Crane Suzu for my 'new' Holdsworth Cyclone.

I was struck by how long the sustain was, and fell in love with the sound again
More importantly it gave me a chance to compare a lacquered bell with a factory fresh one.
My lacquered bell definitely had less sustain, which sort of makes sense.

So I'm removing the lacquer and polishing back to clear brass, maybe I'll try some wax (or not).

unworthy1

as a cymbal player I accepted the "common knowledge" that you NEVER polished a good bronze cymbal (Zildjian A or K, Paiste, Sabian, Constantinople, etc.) and if you DID then you could expect jeers and a much lower sale price if you ever put that (vintage collectible cymbal) on the market.

But even tho many "quality" cymbals are made from billets of "bell-bronze alloy" they rely on the lathed-in ridges (well, most did until the kids decided "rude" un-lathed cymbals were cool) and therefore they don't produce those crashing/pinging/chipping "cymbal sounds" the same as a BELL makes a bell sound.

So it WAS permitted to clean the grime out of those concentric lines to let a really dirty cymbal "breathe" but polishing to make 'em shiny? Or spray them with ANY kind of clear coating?
NO!

wschruba

Worked with handbells for some time--only the "old" production lacquered the bells, as it was deemed that it was counter-productive to good sound. The outsides were, therefor, polished periodically (~1x/12-16 months). The ridged [lathe finished] insides were never touched for it would more greatly effect the tuning. Because the bells could only be effectively tuned a few times before cracking set in from use, the above rule was used. Clean, but not polish the insides.

I have owned several Suzu bells (brass only--I would kill for a bronze version). They are, indeed, lacquered from the factory--pure acetone easily flakes/removes it when applied with a cotton ball. I prefer the natural patina, and they can be returned to high-polish easily, once the lacquer is removed. As with bronze/copper, you can easily set in a uniform patina by wiping the surface with a mixture of salt water and vinegar. Make sure you neutralize/rinse it off when it hits what you want. I had a lovely Suzu that developed a webbed red patina all by itself, but it has since moved on to another owner.

Horns/etc definitely DO come in lacquered options, but it's usually done for student instruments as a means of prolonging the looks. For instruments such as those, good timbre is a secondary concern to durability.,

The Golden Boy 

miyata!!!

SuperLJ

Trumpet player here.

Brasswind instruments (trumpets, trombones, tubas, etc.), can be lacquered brass, raw brass, or plated (silver, gold, nickel) brass. For the record, saxophones are reed instruments, and not part of the brasswind family. Although brasswind instruments do resonate, the cymbal analogy is probably much better. BITD, nitrocellulose lacquer was used, and was not very durable. Modern instruments are clear coated with baked-on epoxy.

I doubt that clear coating a bicycle bell would deaden the sound enough that anyone would notice. I put a Velo-Orange brass bell on one of my bikes a couple of years ago. Pretty sure it’s clear-coated because it’s still as shiny as when it was new. VO bells are also a little larger than the Crane equivalents, and not embossed with any lettering, which I really like.

P!N20

FWIW Zildjian cymbals have a 'light polyurethane solution'.

Velocivixen

If you have to ask, the answer is don’t do it. All of my bells are Crane brass and it would be sad to alter their glorious sound.

unworthy1

Great video, thanks for sharing!
But I'd add that all MY Zildjians are either "plain A" or "K" and
AFAIK they never had any (PU, nitro-lac or whatever) coatings applied and if they did that dissipated pretty quickly attested to by the patina they developed.
Note that the examples featured in this vid are "A Custom" which look to have a "brilliant (polished) finish" which could be why Zildjian sprays them with the "light PU coating".
Or could be they do that now with everything they make for Quality Assurance.
But if I was buying say a brand new "K" I would not want ANY coatings on that, light or not!