StupidlyBrave 

I don't have a problem with that, but can it wait? I'm pretty sure that I want to do a few more refinements.

You might be better off locating the author that inspired much of this and use their source. It's been discussed in a few forums that I'm aware of in the context of enthusiast volunteerism. That's how I became aware of it.

sprintr

+1e6

StupidlyBrave 

I don't want to alienate anyone. I'd like to improve the discourse here. This topic is only a small part of the problem that gives this forum it's poor reputation.

Thanks for that, I think I will.

Then you should pay close attention to the very last section.

StupidlyBrave 

I don't think you do get it. You appear to have some latent hostility about the original source that you've mixed with some latent hostility here. I doubt that I have the skills or patience to convince you otherwise.

<shrugs>

StupidlyBrave 

Good alternative points, this is a discussion forum and not a Wiki. Yet it is not unheard of to see nearly identical questions on the same page of the current forum. Why can't this be avoided? Which one has the useful dialog?

The mod team will often attempt to merge threads like that. I think it is a very time consuming chore to do that in a way that has the cohesiveness and flow to make useful dialog.


Another good point. But what is wrong with the initial post referencing this discussion? It illustrates that the person had done some research into the problem and might make a good segue into further dialog.

An alternative would be to "bump" the thread and ask the question in an attempt to tailor the thread in a way that would lead to the desired answer. I personally wouldn't do that to an ancient thread because many of the initial responders are no longer part of the community and people will simply gloss over it.

Lazyrider

No offense, but I think this thread and the "rules" put forth are ridiculous as they only serve to appease the few who seem too "cool or advanced" to be bothered with any questions or topics they seem simple or trite.

I still don't get why people respond to posts that apparently "annoy" them with "use the search". Why put forth the effort not only to read the thread but to respond with a snide comment? Just ignore it and the post will go away or turn into something productive for the OP.

I see it as some sort of "territorial pi$$ing" where certain people try to bully and intimidate new people. They tried that crap with me and I didn't take to well to it and therefore I don't have a good rapport with a select few around here. This is not the dynamic on other forums. I am all for busting chops with those you are friendly with and that understand the ribbing, but some people are driven away and this topic has come up numerous times in past.

Tulex

So what are you going to do, bump this every day so that newbies see it? Make it a sticky? Who reads stickies?

I simply don't get who is twisting anyone's arm and making them read posts that bug them. If no one replies, it disappears quickly. If people do reply, if it's with an answer or a link to an answer, everyone is happy, and again, it will disappear.

Some of you really need to get over yourselves.

coasting 

lazy, i hate to say it, but i totally agree with you on this point. i wouldn't want this to become a reference library. it is for discussion and there is precious little about the basics of bicycling (usually the noob questions) that hasn't been asked before. if noobs can't start discussions about basics, we'll be left with veterans who just want to talk about the latest developments and any community that does not draw in new blood will wither and die. the veterans will thin out as people drift away and no one will replace them.

as for the anti ball busting or "bullying" that is such a bee in your bonnet, i will continue to say how dumb your position is.

Lazyrider

There is a difference between busting chops and making people feel stupid. I know there are certain people who look for humorous attention and are fine with it and it is funny. I am referring to the snide and rude comments that drive people away that if they weren't trolling, they didn't deserve those kind of response.

Superweirdash

I don't get why everyone assumes this is only for the sake of forum regulars. If a new member has a question, chances are they will find a better, more complete answer by searching, as those who know the answers won't want to repeat themselves over and over. As well, if they ask a question according to the guidelines, they're likely to get a better response.

They're only rules if the moderators enforced them. Otherwise they're just helpful suggestions.

StupidlyBrave 

LR, your comments are more useful than you intend.

After reading your first reply to this thread, I did some thinking about your viewpoint. I believe you are (or were) career military, correct? Someone with this background might interpret my original post as "RULES".

I prefer to think of them as "Best demonstrated practices". That was my intent in presenting this, anyway. I have made an attempt to alter the language and refine the original post in an attempt to remedy this misunderstanding. I would appreciate it if you could re-read them in the spirit in which it was intended and let me know if you think there is too much rigidity there.

x136 

I've done some cleaning in this thread. Let's keep it civil, hmm?

mackiej

You should be able to ask any question you want. New members should not be scared away.

'Whats the point of discussion when it's all available on the net or the library', 'whats the point of trying to interact or discuss your hobby with others, - when the informations already been discussed', seems to be the message here.

Total elitist pants.

Annoyed Newbie.

eric01

I like this one. Its a pet peeve of mine to see someone post an "urgent" message, then 15 minutes later reply to himself with a "what? no one knows?"

banerjek

You might add a couple things:

1) Be brief. No one wants to read a post that goes on forever, even if it contains useful info.

2) Be flexible. Remember that there is significant diversity in the group, so it's delusional to think that everyone will want to communicate the way you do.

Though the last two things don't really fit into the spirit of the post, so they can probably be left out...

Tulex

Why isn't this foo? My "how not to read a thread" was moved to foo, and this thread is no more about riding a bike than mine was.

kila kila kila

No matter how clueless or annoying a noob might be, they all pale in comparison to the self-appointed hall monitor.

Thanks for the pointers, you nerds.

Tulex

Noobs rule.

coasting 

moving to foo is a promotion

genie

Ask whatever you choose to ask, answer whatever you choose to answer, read whatever you choose to read.

And let others do the same.

botto 

because, unlike yours, this is not a parody thread.

Tulex

Actually, I think my thread makes this thread obsolete.

chipcom 

Sorry bud, but I gotta give you lots of credit for taking some initiative here.

Concerning some of the naysayers...most of what SB posted are really basic principals of internet discussion groups, forums, chat, BBs and newsgroups that have been around for years...dissing them just makes you look like the noob to the net that you probably are, rather than the tough old salt you are trying to pass yourself off as. Congrats on outing yourselves.

Tulex

Chipcom, you are correct, as I glossed over the part that matters the first time I read it.

How to answer questions in a helpful way

• Be gentle. Problem-related stress can make people seem rude or stupid even when they're not.
• Reply to a first offender off-line. There is no need of public humiliation for someone who may have made an honest mistake. A real newbie may not know how to search archives or where the FAQ is stored or posted.
• If you don't know for sure, say so! A wrong but authoritative-sounding answer is worse than none at all. Don't point anyone down a wrong path simply because it's fun to sound like an expert. Be humble and honest; set a good example for both the querent and your peers.
• If you can't help, don't hinder. Don't jokingly suggest things that could injure or destroy because the poor sap might interpret these as instructions.
• Ask probing questions to elicit more details. Try to turn the bad question into a good one; remember we were all newbies once.
• While muttering "use the search feature" is sometimes justified when replying to someone who is just a lazy slob, a well constructed link is better.
• Your credibility should be important to you. Volunteer an answer if you have one, but don't be afraid to acknowledge a better answer that might appear as part of the thread dialog.
• Answering one good question is like feeding a hungry person one meal, but teaching them research skills by example is showing them how to grow food for a lifetime.

mattm

this thread has zero to do with road cycling, yet i enjoy that some take it sooo seriously. as if Road Cycling is Serious Biz..

the people (kid?) that wrote those guidelines still live in their mom's basement. i'll say it again 'cause it's true. i'm guessing their stepdad came down with some guidelines for them (no more combat boots on the carpet, damn! no trench coats in the house? dang it), so they in turn had to lay down the law on teh netz.

have fun beating on the "n00bs".