jdawginsc 

Any of you who ARE in fact women, or who have women as riding partners/life partners, who ride a variety of bike types, I am looking to try to see what sort of size frame I could use to create a hybrid style bike using an older sport/road frame. I have an "ISO" in the sales section, but I have a few bikes in size 52/52cm and wondering if they would work for someone 5'5" to 5'7". I am also building a Ross Centaur into a flat bar (55.5-56 cm) for a young lady 5'9" with long inseam.

Any help or participation would be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you so much. All would be made into a straight bar conversion.

The possibles:
1986 Schwinn Voyager 52 cm (the English racing green one)...would have to touch this one up, but could be a nice commuter/gravel for one of them.
1987 mint green Cannondale (Team Comp was the model I think) 51cm
1980s Enik Tange 5 sport-road bike - 52cm
1980s Ross Centaur (the pink and grey white version)

thook

sizing has not anything to do with gender, though. it's all about proportion.... same as a male. i'm 5'6, but have long legs for my height (82.5cm pbh). i can comfortably ride up between a 22" to 23" frame with flat or cruiser bars utitlzing stem length to mitigate the fitting. i'd find a 52cm frame to be way too small with any type of bar, though. of course, it's all relative to person's comfort level. some people just don't like the feeling of a bigger frame. someone of 5'5 might find a 52cm frame just right.

jdawginsc 

Comfort and sizing is also a mental thing...that is what I was really asking...straight top tubes often are annoying/intimidating to some. My sister cannot ride a man's bike for several reasons, no matter the sizing and geometry. My ex would not as well. So while I largely agree about gender neutrality and sizing, there is another aspect that I am trying to get views and experiences with the straight tops.

On the other hand, thank you for the size reporting...That is very helpful!

merziac

Yep, comfort level can be the main thing. My sons girlfriend has long legs and complained about not getting any power sitting down, raised her seat and she became unsteady and overcautious, wobbly, etc on the Univega Uno Alpina step through I redid for her.

I put some narrower bars on it to bring her in closer so we'll see.

jdawginsc 

Maybe also a slightly longer reach stem to stretch her out a bit might help her be a bit more stable?

cyccommute 

I’d say that a 52cm is probably a bit too big for someone that tall. My daughter is 5’6” and rides a 49cm Fuji Touring bike with flat bars that fits her very well. She’s ridden it a lot since we bought it in 2002.

merziac

She's convinced herself everything is too far away, a shorter stem may need to go on to help convince her we're going the wrong way. Waiting for better weather to get after it some more.

thook

well, you're question seemed largely centered around sizing vs type of top tube. a 56cm step through will fit the same as a horizontal top tubed frame....given all other geometrical aspects are the same, of course. my wife doesn't like horizontal top tubes, either. her mixte and (step through) mountain bike both have 22" effective top tubes at 5'5. and, both with upright bars. she doesn't like drop bars at all

wrk101

I tried with zero success to get my wife to raise her saddle. Then we went on a group ride, and another gal told my wife: “you really need to raise that saddle”. “Really, I never knew that….”

bamboobike4

I’m 5’6” and ride a 54cm.

My S/O is 5’3” and rides 47cm Trek WSD Domane, but a 51cm Specialized Amira. Her Merckx is a 48cm, as far as classic. Her mixte is a 50cm, upright bars.

Proportion is #1, and individual frames seem to vary with women.

As far as comfort, most women riders I’ve built for are particular about saddle comfort, and tend to listen to each other more than someone who is willing to sit on their balls all day. As such, I buy her saddle model whenever I see one.

Going upright on a bike is out of my experience zone.

The fit software is pretty good these days, but our local fitter says the uprights are the biggest challenge.

Vintage Schwinn

Other than the perception of riding anything but an "accepted-quality" diamond frame, and the stigma associated with deviating from the "norm" of the clique, probably the most practical & legitimate grievance against owning/riding a step-through or mixte bicycle is that they do not mount easily on to most automobile bike carrier racks.
Sure, there is a fine, external bar-thingamajib adapter bar for transport carrier use that does work great, but those are entirely unnecessary with normal diamond frames.

Bicycles are mechanical objects and they have no clue as to what gender that they are supposedly designed for. Size dimensions of the frame will largely determine the size range of the prospective riders, given that some accomodations can be attained by raising/lowering the seat post and perhaps the stem, and the useful amount of such adjustment seems to be more when the frame geometry is more relaxed (e.g., Seat Tube & Head Tube Angles ..).

Other factors that tend to sway "the wannabee serious cyclist" away from step-through and mixte configurations is the perceived excess weight. The "wannabee serious cyclist" wishes to dress and outfit like they possibly were a physically fit capable "serious cyclist" but in reality all that separates them from other outta shape and overweight Americans riding a bicycle is the more expensive brand bike specific clothing and upscale bicycle purchased from their LBS.

For a certain specific population that sees themselves as only buying and riding the best that there is at present, those folks will never accept anything that they deem as 2nd rate, even if those folks themselves are in third-rate, fourth-rate, or fifth-rate physical shape & physical fitness that does not really allow them to use this high quality machinery in any manner that would be significantly different from any typical old bike or cheap Wallyworld beach cruiser with seven gears. My point is that your potential group of buyers for your rehabbed/resto-modded women's frame offerings (step-throughs & mixtes) will already be significantly limited. The only way to overcome that is by possibly educating such a potential prospect to the benefits of such a bicycle, however, I do not believe that approach would be fruitful. I do think that, it basically is what it is, and those that already would consider such a womens bike, do so happily, and are cognizant that such bikes are inexpensive (priced less) than compareable diamond frame offerings, so I don't believe that you have any price elasticity when trying to re-sell a step through or mixte and I believe that your margins will continue to be better when selling standard diamond frames, because this is what people seem to demand the most. You can't really fight that trend. Perhaps, you can sometimes find mixte and step-though bikes for so low that you can make a fair amount re-selling them, but standard diamond frames likely will continue to be your best bet in the resale and flippin marketplace. Now, if you're simply building and adapting old bicycles simply for your own use and your family's enjoyment without any concern for strict resale value, then no worries, don't worry and be happy & have fun creating and riding your great cool creations. Many times, the bikes that you spend time customizing are the bicycles that you will enjoy the most. No need to view things strictly like an accountant, unless you are in it to then flip sell it.

jdawginsc 

Welp, good news is the mint Cannondale was completely mis-remembered and is 47/48cm! Options!

Doug Fattic 

I'm a custom frame builder that is having trouble trying to make any of your suggestions fit any of my knowledge. That prevents me from making any recommendations. Primarily you establish the height of the saddle first. Once that is established, the handlebar position needs to be at least as high and probably higher than the saddle. To get those handlebars up there requires a much bigger frame than what you are suggesting.

Most women - particularly those with modest cycling ambitions - like handlebars up high. Having lower handlebars (defined as lower than the saddle) is not comfortable for them and as a result they will not want to continue riding. Full stop.

Most American hybrid kind of bicycles are equipped with MTB style of flat bars. This is not because they work the best but because of American culture. What works better is sweptback bars with a bit of rise. These are the handlebars that came on old English 3 speeds.

My wife is 5' 5"+ and I've made for her 3 custom bicycles. A traditional road frame with drop bars, I converted her touring frame into a kind of hybrid with flat MTB style of handlebars and I made her a full custom MUT riding bike with sweptback bars. She like riding that one a lot more than the hybrid (although she likes them all). She is a good, fit rider and enjoys cycling.

I'll post a picture of her custom bike with sweptback bars (called "north road") so you can get an idea of the handlebar to seat relationship. If I was finding bicycles for a couple of women wanting to get into bicycling, a bike like my wife's is what I would do.

jdawginsc 

Thanks Doug! By any chance do you know what the seat tube and top tube measures on that blue custom beauty? Just to get a sense.

Are those 650b or standard 700c wheels?

Dave

Doug Fattic 

The slope on her top tube is 3º. The C to C size is 53 and it would be 54.5 if it was a level TT. Her saddle height is 70.5 from the enter of the BB to the top of the saddle along the center of the seat tube. The top to the top tube lug is extended another 15 to 20 mm. Her effective top tube length is 57. Her tires are 650B X 42.

My companion bike has a seat tube length of 55 again with a slope that would made it a 58 if the top tube were level. I'm 5' 8" with a saddle height of 73.5. My effective top tube length is also 58. The top tube lug is extended as well. The angles on both bikes is 71º. The more upright a person sits, the more setback the saddle needs to be. My tires are 700 X 38. I made this frame in one of my framebuilding classes as an example to my students what to do.

I was able to find my wife's upright position on a fitting bike (seen behind my Messenger bike) using the saddle and handlebars I chose for her bicycle. I used the fixture on the wall to convert her position into a frame design. I brazed them together with the torch on the pegboard.

merziac

Its just like management, you have get them to think it was their idea or they found the person, place or thing on their own.

Doug Fattic 

I'm not sure I made it clear with the examples of our 2 bikes (for simple recreational riding) that the importance of frame size is directly related to correctly positioning the stem. The frame needs to be big enough so that the head tube is long enough so that the chosen stem can be raised high enough to position the handlebars where they need to be in relation to where the saddle needs to be. In other words, if a frame is too small, the handlebars will be too low and a female or older male rider will not be comfortable. Of course some kind of stems can raise the handlebars higher. The problem is that the result might look really stupid. This is why when some smaller frames were considered as options, I wasn't sure they would work well. Most women that are not competitive or performance oriented want whatever kind of handlebar they are using to be at a minimum as high as their saddle. This relates to taking pressure off of the sensitive areas of their crotch.

Bigger frames with longer head tubes makes higher handlebar positioning easier. However the frame can't be so big it can't be straddled comfortably. My easy guide to frame size is to get the biggest frame one can comfortably stand over without discomfort. Most frame size guides deal with cycling efficiency related to performance probably sacrificing comfort. I'm under the impression that the purpose of the bicycles being considered is for comfortable rather than performance riding.

zandoval 

I think as long as you don't start with a bike that is too tall you are going to be alright. There are so many affordable Seat Tubes, Seats, Stems, Bars and Levers out there that can accommodate a workable geometry. Years ago we did not have as much to choose from.

A friend of mine bought a really good for the price bike online. She could not get used to riding it even though we keep setting it up different for her. Then at a group ride she tried another woman's bike and found it comfortable. Of course her husband and I Jumped on that bike and took measurements to the millimeter. We then set up the same bike we had been adjusting with new narrow drop bars, a wider seat, lifted the seat a few millimeters, put on a shorter stem, and a Bammm! Success! And the most important thing to know is that really we did not change anything more than a few centimeters at the most!

As for frames am a big fan of the Mixti. Not because it took off as a woman's bike in the 70's but because it is a strong solid proven design.

thook

i think rivendell has a sizing chart for their bikes. they used to, anyway. i always thought grant petersen has a very solid foundation for getting a comfortable match to a person height. some people go smaller with drop bars, but like mr. fattic the idea is go big as you can. having said that, a couple of cm's can make a big difference in getting someone the right fit. one could use rivendell's chart as a good starting point and play around from there. just some thoughts....

jdawginsc 

Absolutely. Mostly it is trying to use what I have on hand to bring some biking to a few young teachers from an old guy teacher!

Kat12

Personally, I prefer a "men's styled" bike. Ask me when I'm older and maybe can't get my leg over the bar, but for most of my life I've preferred it both aesthetically, and find that style easier to carry (basically I hoist it by the top bar up to my shoulder, vs. having to do the awkward "grab the seat post with one hand and the handlebar post with the other and try to keep it from slipping, and in this odd 'bicep curl' fashion hold it up high enough to go up and down the stairs" thing).

Not, of course, that what I or anyone else here prefers will have any bearing on what the particular women who you have in mind will prefer, but if you needed anecdotes from women who are fine with/like/prefer the straight top tube vs a step-through design... yes, we're out here.

If we're going to talk saddles... I worship at the feet of cutouts and feel they're at least worth a try for women.

jdawginsc 

I have the saddles set. They will be getting Terrys I think (with the cut-outs...Liberator). Can I ask you what your height and seat-tube size in road bikes are? Thank YOU in advance and for your thoughts!

Dave

Kat12

Probably I'm not a good person to ask about it-- I bought the road bike for cheap on Craigslist, hopped on and rode it down the street, said "eh, it fits well enough." I've not ridden it long/far enough yet to know if I have issues (still need to really get it set up on the trainer; I'll probably have a thread about that soon enough). Also, my height is a fluke, as I'm very long-waisted but short-legged (think "petite" size for trousers, and sometimes a "tall" size for tops), so I'm likely not proportioned like most other people my height.

jdawginsc 

Me neither!