Groover

Ok, I see how easy it is for this to get out of control. While looking for a parts donor for my Chestnut SubUrban in my other thread, I came across this Schwinn Speedster 3-speed, and just had to get it. $60. I really wanted the three speed SubUrban but haven't found one yet. I may eventually find a 3-speed hub to swap onto it. But now, while I'm working on fixing the FF or converting the SubUrban, I figured I could ride this and see if the three speed is really my dream. I will say this frame measures almost exactly the same as the SubUrban (even though this has 26 inch wheels) and weighs roughly the same at 42 lbs. But after a quick jaunt around a few blocks, it doesn't seem to ride the same. I know others here have said that, but I'm curious why there is much of a difference when the frame sizes and such are about the same.

Head On



Head on Drive Side

Drive Side

Head Badge (March 1974)

It's not in quite as good of shape as the SubUrban. This one has a little more rust (wheels and fenders) but the frame is really good. Has a local bike shop sticker from here in Indy (Macs - no longer here).

WEIGHTS (I'll add more as I do them)
Total Weight = 42 lbs
Front wheel with tire = 4.94 lbs
Front wheel w/o tire = 3.28 lbs
Rear wheel with tire = 7.39 lbs
Rear wheel w/o tire = 5.49 lbs

albrt 

My wife has a 3-speed Speedster and a 5-speed Suburban. She would agree with you that they ride very differently, but she likes the Speedster much better. The Suburban is a better bike in just about all respects, but I suspect I will be tasked with selling it soon.

Velo Mule

Nice find on that Schwinn Speedster three speed. It looks like it is in excellent condition. I like these 26" wheel Schwinns with the Sturmey-Archer three speed hubs. One of the reasons that I like them is that they are the American equivalent to the Raleigh Sports. I think the Raleigh rides slightly better, but the Schwinn's are close and as far as being able to last longer, the Schwinn's win that category.

The other category that they are better than the Raleigh's and English (and a few Dutch) three speeds is the crank. It is easier to service.

You will notice that on the top tube the pulley wheel bracket for the shifter cable is welded to the top tube. This is also good because it cannot shift. Although as any English three speed enthusiast would counter the clamp on pulleys don't shift either.

The Speedster, Collegiate and Racer have 26" x 1-3/8" tires. Slightly fatter than the Suburban, Varsity and Continental. The Speedster's have a more cushioned ride as a result.

One more note on those tires: They are not the same size as the English bikes. They are a Schwinn specific size. There is only Kenda selling a tire that fits now.

If I ever come across one of these Speedsters, Collegiate or Racer three speeds for the right money, I would buy Sun Ringle CR18 rims and relace the wheels to a more commonly available tire and also benefit from having lighter rims that can be slowed down when it is wet out. A retro-modded three speed would be great.

Groover

So you are saying you'd get a Sun Ringle CR18 rim and relace using the SA 3-speed hub? Can you use the same spokes from the Schwinn wheel(s) or do you need to get different spokes? Seems the spokes for the front and rear hubs on the Schwinn would be different lengths as the SA rear is larger than the front?

rudypyatt

Ah, the Speedster! Mine was a 1973 I believe. It had been abandoned on a rack in front of my building and I took it to my local shop for restoration. The front wheel was replaced with something aluminum; don’t know if it was a CR18. The rear was stock with the AW hub.

I came home one evening to find it had been crushed by (literally, according to witnesses) a Mack truck, probably the only thing that can kill a vintage Schwinn.

The remains of the Schwinn beneath the remains of the Trek.

ralphs

My first bike was a blue single-speed Speedster when I was about eight or nine in the late 60s. My father knew I was going to grow, so it was way too big for me. He made blocks for the pedals with 2x4s and covered them with an old inner tube from his motorcycle. He added a front brake and an analog speedometer (which I still have). It was so big I had to find something to help me get into the saddle (the rock wall next to our driveway was the usual starting point). I don't remember what happened to it.
I followed it with a Varsity, that eventually got stolen when my brother borrowed it.

Vintage Schwinn

In addition to the great information that VELO MULE (see post #3) provided:

The SUBURBAN has the tubular front fork.......same as the Continental has.........the SPEEDSTER/BREEZE/RACER/COLLEGIATE/VARSITY has the forged steel ashtabula blade front fork.

Another difference is that the "Lightweight" Schwinns in 26 x 1 3/8 (597mm) they feature LONGER REACH L.S. 2.8 weinmann sidepulls (also known as Weinmann 810)
The VARSITY & SUBURBAN both have the L.S. 2.4 weinmann sidepulls (also known as Weinmann 730) Schwinn started with their internal L.S. code stamp in 1969.
The VARSITY has the forged steel ashtabula blade front fork, while the SUBURBAN has the tubular front fork of the CONTINENTAL, though the SUBURBAN does share the same exact SIDE PULL brakes as the VARSITY, while the CONTINENTAL has CENTER PULL BRAKES.

Basically, other than having those great German made, Schwinn Approved BOW PEDALS and the Deluxe Mattress Seat with a bunch of horizontal springs that look like Fender Stratocaster tremelo springs, just below the padding.......if you look under these black deluxe matress seats that Schwinn employed on the SUBURBAN, you'll see those springs that I talked about. That Black deluxe matress seat is really heavy but it is really really comfortable. Those two-tone colored S seats that Schwinn employed on so many bikes from at least 1959 to at least the mid seventies is horrible, comparatively speaking in comfort compared to those Deluxe Matress Seats or that Rubberlike black Messinger T-85 spring seat that was original equipment on the 1971 and later COLLEGIATES.
People love the looks of the colorful two-tone S seat, but it is a butt killer for some people, as there is almost no padding and the cover-upholstery is useless except for durabilty. That is my opinion on the various Schwinn Approved seats that came on such bikes during the Sixties & Seventies. If your BEE-HIND doesn't mind the S seat , it adds visual pop to an otherwise nice looking Schwinn if the seat itself also looks almost new, or like it did when the bike was only six months old. Otherwise a battered and faded S seat with dingy and stained white portion, looks awful on an otherwise decent looking , nice Schwinn. Don't feel like that you must be a slave to keep the factory seat in place because it is period or year correct. That is just stupid. (Though 95% of the oil far arts on the C.A.B.E. would likely disagree as their thing is mostly putting them back together and displaying them, as actually, really riding them 15 to 25 miles in a single ride once, twice, or thrice a week sounds impossible to them. If you're gonna ride for two to two and a half hours, you need a seat that suits your FANNY. Even if it isn't an issue for you, trust me, your wife will want a comfortable seat to ride for two hours. Heck, just as I recommend with folks riding vintage bikes any distance, that you don't want to be riding any vintage multi-speed bike with SIMPLEX, HURET, or CAMPAGNOLO rear derailleurs. Just replace with MaedaSUN TOUR or SHIMANO. Place the removed original equipment simplex, huret, or campagnolo rear derailleur into a Zip-Lock baggie for safe museum piece storage, should you or the next owner wish to have a museum display bicycle rather than a ride anywhere with no worries, great riding bicycle. Remove the Original seat if it isn't Comfortable Enough for you or your wife. GET A SEAT FOR YOU THAT YOU LIKE, AND GET A SEAT FOR YOUR WIFE THAT SHE WANTS AND LOVES........................save the factory original seats if you ever want to turn the bike into a museum piece. Also, do not fall into the lunacy of some Cabers who cherish riding ORIGINAL TIRES or tires that are the same age & correct originally supplied equipment for that model bicycle. You recall the MICHELIN tire television ads from the Eighties to the Early Two thousands that said: "Because So Much Is Riding On Your Tires"....................................yeah thats right..................you are.............................human bones tend to break sometimes when the bicycle rider's body hits the asphalt/pavement. Ancient, same year tires as the bicycle is ok for an indoor Smithsonean exhibit but you are asking for trouble if you are riding ancient, decayed, hard rubber tires that should have been replaced twenty years ago.

These ELECTROFORGED frames are pretty much the same, other than the LONGER REACH BRAKE CALIPERS on the (597mm) Collegiates & variant 26 x 1 3/8 "lightweights"

you already know about the TUBULAR FRONT FORK vs the BLADE FRONT FORK

1966 marked the change to THICKER WALLED tube portion of the forks that reside inside the HEADTUBE....thus the change from 22.2mm stem diameter to 21.1mm stem diameter

1966 marked the change of the WOMEN's step-through model frames.........curved top bar rather than parallel like top bar in 1965 and earlier.

There are, I believe, a few minor differences and changes made, I think on certain Schwinn frames between the late forties and early sixties. I'm not totally sure but I am basing my guestimate on visual observations about fifty years ago of different year bikes, so my memory might be way off and totally wrong.

The Seventies saw the most broad offering of Women's sizes , typically (17) (19)(21) inch FRAMES, and the broadest offering of men's diamond frames too.

I think if you go look up the RACER and SPEEDSTER models in the waterford site's hosting of the old Schwinn catalogs, I think that you will find that circa around 1971-1972 that the RACER and the SPEEDSTER were the exact same bicycles with minor differences in fenders in paint color vs fenders in chrome.
To access the waterford site links to the schwinn catalogs which are organized by decade:
GOOGLE: 1971 - 1980 Schwinn Catalogs
GOOGLE: 1961 - 1970 Schwinn Catalogs
GOOGLE: 1951 - 1960 Schwinn Catalogs
.........when you see the waterford LINK for whichever ten year collection that you want to look at..
Wasn't the SPEEDSTER nameplate introduced as a version of a cantilever middleweight model around 1961? Then wasn't the first "lightweight" SPEEDSTER nameplate that then new CAMELBACK(humpback) men's frame 26 x 1 3/8 "lightweight" around 1963, but other than that similar to the Traveler & Racer........then when the Traveler nameplate was discontinued in mid-Sixties..............the SPEEDSTER became what was the Traveler...................the Women's base model Traveler had already changed names to the CO-ED for two years, and then when the CO-ED / TRAVELER names were discontinued, they were re-named the BREEZE ..........................................something like that, I might have it wrong but if you go look year to year, you'll see what Schwinn did with the names........................ Didn't the Racer get discontinued in the early seventies and the SPEEDSTER name lived on.
......................**** You know that SEVENTIES era Schwinn SPEEDSTER chainguard decal with the big block capital letter style is one of Schwinn's coolest looking chainguard decals in my opinion. A few friends' bikes and my wife's bikes have this SPEEDSTER chainguard decal, though the bikes are suburbans + collegiates, etc. You can also use two Schwinn SPEEDSTER chainguard decals to great effect as downtube frame decals on a custom bike. I rode such a custom decal, custom painted custom bike in two different sprint tri-athlons.........the bike that I rode had two repro black Schwinn SPEEDSTER chainguard decals on the downtubes, and was painted all yellow......closest that I could get to the old KOOL LEMON color,........the bike's original head badging was replaced by a $10 replica 3D decal of the iconic white oval Schwinn in black letters , headbadge..........Some cat that specializes in reproduction automotive decals and such, whipped up the decal for the headbadge.

Velo Mule

If it were my bike, Yes. I'd ride it for a while if the tires were good enough. But, I would be planning on SunRingle CR18 with stainless steel spokes. So, I would be starting fresh with new shinny spokes. If the bike was ridable, that would allow the new rims to come in so that I can get a good measure on effective rim diameter of the new rims and then find the spoke length.

One of my problems is spending way more time and money that a bike might be worth. To me, I like these old bikes, so spending money on them is worth in my mind. I do all the work my self and that is both therapeutic and helps to cut down on costs. But that is how I run my crazy obsession. The garage is for bikes.

There are some good tires for 26" x 1-3/8" rims. Schwalbe makes a variety of styles. But some members haven't liked some of them. I'm not sure which ones they were not impressed with. I would love to have a 26" X 1-3/8" thread like we do for 27" tires. Or even better, make a separate category for vintage internally geared hub bikes with a sticky for 26" x 1-3/8" tires.

My wife's bike has Schwalbe Delta Cruiser tires in creme without the puncture resistance. They seem nice but she doesn't ride it often now.

SirMike1983 

The Speedster three speed is a solid, mid-level utility bike. They're a cut above the basic single speed coaster diamond frame bikes and department store bikes, though not as deluxe as some of the road bikes. They're heavy but quite durable. They can benefit from a larger rear cog, say going from the 18 up to a 20 or 22. The alloy brakes and levers aren't bad, and they can do a pretty good job for old brakes with a set of Kool Stop pads. The black mattress saddle is OK. A nice leather saddle will be more comfortable, but that mattress is serviceable and water resistant. The design is of British lineage, but Schwinn adapted many elements to American types of parts and style preferences. Thankfully these can still be found at yard and garage sales for very good prices. You got lucky as well in that you have a "tall" frame model that is good for an adult male rider.

The welded frames and flat blade forks give a particular feel to the ride, which some people like and some don't. They have a heavier and more solid (some would argue "dead") feel compared to a Raleigh Sports of the same size and vintage. It's a preference thing. I think one can enjoy both.

Schwinn stuck to a somewhat archaic tire size with a bead seat diameter of 597mm. Kenda makes tires in this size now. They're not bad, but certainly not a premium tire either. I run my old Schwinn 3 speeds with stock steel wheels, and they ride just fine. You have a keeper there. Frankly, the condition looks pretty good to me. There's a little rust, but it will clean up.

smontanaro 

Sorta like this? (CR-18 ISO 590 rims, Panaracer Col de la Vie tires, S-Z XRD3 drum brake three speed hub rear, MAFAC Racer front, three-piece crank adapter and a Sugino crank of some type) It still weighs a ton, but slightly less than it did when I got it. It was my around town bike for several years, but a Dawes Galaxy has recently taken over that role.



Here's a "before" picture.

smontanaro 

Not a problem for me, but then I also like Brooks saddles before break-in. Actually, in many respects I like the two-tone saddle on my Speedster better than the B-72 on my Dawes.

The longest one-way ride I can recall on my Speedster was a commute to work, probably about 12-14 miles one way.

Sierra

I had a '74 Opaque Red 23" frame Speedster like the OP's.
It, and $250 got me this '65 P13.
I was very happy to make that deal!

As it came to me.


After I finished it.

Reynolds 531 

I always loved the 17 inch frame Speedster. aka "Camelback"

Velo Mule

Yes, that is just what I would like with the only exception of retaining the one piece crank. I actually wasn't thinking of a drum brake on the back but I can see the advantage to it. I could also see why you would go with the three piece crank.

Are those Stainless steel fender on the speedster. I have head that Schwinn made them but, I thought all the fenders that I have seen have been chrome plated.

I think the Raleigh and their English variants ride better than the Schwinn 26" wheeled bike because of the tubular fork on the English bikes being more compliant. Whether that is actually true or if it is all in my head is debatable. The Ashtabula fork just seems stiffer, but it could have been the, at least, 40 year old Schwinn tires that caused that stiffer ride. Perhaps the Panasport tires being more compliant would smooth out the ride more.

smontanaro 

Nope, chrome plated steel. They need a soak in wood bleach. (Actually, the entire bike could probably use that at this point.)

Groover

Ok, I got the new Kenda's on the Speedster last night. Had to use the soap trick to get them to seat properly, and steel wooled much of the brightwork. She looks pretty sweet now. Just took her out for a lengthy urban ride and I must say, I've changed my mind about the ride (from my original post above). It's exceptional. With the new tires it rides very nicely. And as I had hoped/suspected, the three speed is the hub for me. No looking down to see what gear your in. And the entire time I really only used 1 & 2. Occasionally popped up to 3 to see what it was like. If I had a long stretch of country road with a breeze at my back, I could see using 3 but 95% of the time, for my urban riding it's 1 & 2. Love the positron Sturmey Archer shifter. No muss, no fuss. I also think after riding this one more, the 26 inch wheel is a better fit for me. Even though both frames measure out almost identical (or maybe they are identical). The seat tube on both measures 24 inches from center of the crank to the top of the clamp. Does that make them both 24 inch Schwinns? But the speedster has a 32 inch stand over and the SubUrban is more like 33.5.Small difference, but it means I get almost my entire foot on the ground at a stop. And the 26 inch wheels feel way more maneuverable in tight quarters/urban environment. I just feel more assured weaving in and out and stopping and starting. Going to keep riding them both for a while, but before I outfit for groceries, I may wait a bit as I think the racks for the SubUrban may be a little too big for the Speedster? Seems the SubUrbans use that one above that attaches to the seat post and most of the 26 inch bikes use the one that attaches to the wheel stays. I want it to look proportionally correct and level.

Anyway, I fixed the SubUrban shift cable in the other post so I'm off to ride it a while and see how I feel about it.

Vintage Schwinn

Groover: Search around for a tubular front fork from a 24inch frame CONTINENTAL or from a 24inch frame SUBURBAN .......you will then have a 597 SUBURBAN three spd.

You may have to paint RED whatever Donor tubular fork that you do find........REMEMBER you're gonna need the biggie with about 8 inches to fit the 24 inch frame's headtube. The ones that you find from 22 inch frames WILL NOT FIT (they will be too short) (obviously anything from 22, 21, 20, 19 WILL BE WAY TOO SHORT)
............You NEED a DONOR tubular fork for a 24 inch frame!

My suggestion would be to try and find a RED one, but did Suburbans come in a red color other than that wine red of '70 & '71......so maybe the CONTINENTAL was available in that color red for at least one year during the bike boom. Check the old Schwinn catalogs.
Your best bet in finding one is to mention it here on bikeforums that you're looking for RED tubular fork from an early 24 inch frame seventies CONTI or SURB.
Somebody has one laying about in their garage junk pile. Ebay, you'll pay too much for the tubular front fork, but it might be easy to find one (not red) for a 24 inch Suburban or Continental. Somebody here probably has a various color (not red) one on their scrap junk pile in their garage right now, that they don't want or need.
You can probably find an existing off the shelf Auto Spray Paint Color in the spray paint aisle at Advance/Auto Zone/Napa/Pep Boys/Car Quest/O'Reillys etc, that comes very close to your RED. Then order reproduction white fork decals for the COLLEGIATE (they look better in my opinion than the suburban fork decal does). No joke, there is a reproduction Western Flyer Miss Buzz Bike white fork decal that I think (bcrawford on the bay reproduces) that looks a lot like a Schwinn fork decal for the Suburban, only better looking than the Suburban's fork decal---or you can get the Collegiate or Suburban decals from that other guy that does great and has a license to reproduce Schwinn decals.

......Yeah, it would be a whole lotta effort to swap the blade fork for the tubular fork.............IT WOULD BE SUPER-SIMPLE TO DO, but finding the proper size for a 24 inch frame, and then painting and getting it to very closely match your nice red bike, might be a challenge.

Groover

Excellent idea and info.

And because I love to ask questions... are you saying that besides the tube vs blade forks, all other aspects of these 24 inch frames (1975 Speedster K24-4 vs 1978 Suburban model 634) is pretty much the same?

Both electroforged beauties with same steel, geometry, etc?

If so, does that mean I could put these 26 inch, 597 wheels, etc on the 24 inch Suburban frame I already have, and have a rare, one-of-a-kind, 26 inch, 3-speed, Chestnut Suburban?

I do notice that the Speedster handelbars look to be a tad taller than the Suburban's (or is that my imagination)? and the Suburban kickstand is bright chrome whereas the Speedster is dull steel (figure that was a way to class up the suburban).

But are the frames identical except for the forks?

Keep it coming...

Jeff Wills

Yes. The upmarket Schwinns had chrome-plated kickstands, the basic models were cadmium plated. You can't interchange Schwinn kickstands willy-nilly- the length, the angle of the bends, and the internal cam controlled the angle of the bike when parked. Change anything and the bike falls over.

SirMike1983 

I use a 22-tooth cog on my 3-speed Schwinns. Most of the running then is in 2 or 3, with 1 being for steeper climbing.

I say leave the fork stock if it's comfortable for you. They're a little heavy and flex a bit side-to-side, but the ride is still pretty good for general purpose use. I don't mind the blade fork at all on my 1964 Traveler.

smontanaro 

What size chainring? (I ask, because my crank is decidedly non-stock and no longer recall what the Ashtabula crank had.)

SirMike1983 

Mine are the stock 46 (standard pitch) in most cases, or 48 tooth stock (in the cases of a couple older three speed bikes from the 1940s). A 22 rear works pretty well with both of those on the hilly terrain where I ride.

Groover

Good idea. Believe mine is 18 right now. Are 20 or 22 cogs easily available or do I have to find the entire assembly with the higher number to swap from?

And since you've opened this can o worms... I'm super intrigued by the 2 speed internal kick back hubs. I love old tech that works (and without a cable, etc). Do you have any experience with those? Was thinking of the yellow/red underdrive version but now that you mention changing the cog, could perhaps go overdrive and then just size up the rear cog (or reduce the front, I suppose). Unless those cogs can't be swapped like the SA 3-speed hub?

Anybody have experience riding the 2-speed internal as a daily driver?

SirMike1983 

It's an easy swap. There's a circular clip that holds the cog, spacers, and dust crap in place on the hub. You pop that off, swap the new cog into the same position as the old, then put the clip back on. Probably the hardest part is that you will need to lengthen your chain a couple links, if you go to 22 teeth. The 20 and 22 tooth cogs are readily available. The newly made Sturmey Archer brand 1/2x1/8 cogs available on eBay and the like are perfectly fine.

I don't use two-speed kickback hubs. Not enough gear range to deal with the terrain here. A three speed is the bare minimum. The FW four-speed hubs and the five-speed S5 hubs are even better here. But you may live in a flatter area.

Groover

Ok, got a 20 tooth sprocket and put it on the Sturmey Archer (AW 74) hub. When I took off the rear wheel, the rear drops were quite tight, and when the wheel came out the drops sprung out to 126mm but the 3 speed rear wheel hub spacing is more like 112mm. The axle length is 146 (which is correct according to Sheldon).

But it's difficult to get the axle nuts back on because the frame has to be squeezed in from 126mm to 112mm. Are there supposed to be a stack of spacers in there?

126mm seems right for the Schwinn Speedster frame, but are the SA hubs really 112? Everything looks original. I can't see Schwinn packing this thing with spacers on both sides from the factory? And no other use for the Speedster frame would have required any hub wider than the SA.

Thoughts?