rubiksoval

If you can stick through most of a group ride with more experienced riders, then that's a good spot. That's far more important than FTP.

Once you get to the point where you can actively participate in the ride by taking pulls, going for sprints, or even dropping people, then you'll likely be in a good position to try some racing.

For the little that my anecdotal experience is worth:
When I started riding (all hr based training, with a coach prescribing workouts), I rode with Cat 4s/5s for a few months and was able to drop them all on the climbs. However, in my very first race with a decent field I just wallowed along and couldn't drop anyone and finished mid pack. I did about three months of races and had success with the much smaller junior fields but I don't think I even finished in the top 10 of a cat 4 race.

Disillusioned about my meager results, I started training in the city the next summer doing a race-paced weekday ride and a longer weekend ride with Cat 1s/2s/3s and and began winning sprints and dropping everyone except the 1s. Doing that ride each week helped me figure out how to actually navigate a bigger group and put myself in the position necessary for results, and I was able to upgrade from a 4 to a 3 to a 2 within the next 10 months.

All that to reiterate my first two sentences: success in group riding and racing comes from doing a significant amount of group riding and racing, In groups in which your FTP/power across multiple durations is lower than others, you have to be very cognizant of your actions and when and how you use your efforts. This is so massively important and seemingly ignored by so many that focus on power. I can't even begin to recount how many Cat 4s and 3s I see that have 4.0-4.5 w/kg FTPs yet never get a result because they focus entirely on power to the detriment of race craft.

So train with power, but do group rides in which you're trying to put out as little power as possible until you make a big move. If your current group ride is just tooling around all day, you'll likely need to find another one in which you can practice race craft.

It's such a vital component; more important than any other. That, and a sprint. Get a sprint. If you can't sprint, your results are going to be few and far between if Australian racing is anything like American racing (which it seems it is). Everything in the lower ranks is a sprint.

Redbullet

Very good performance for a beginner. But also good to know that even with smaller FTP than yours, I can easily average 33-34 km/h in groups. The effect of drafting is impressive. From my experience, I think they are right in saying that one can easily gain power savings of 20-30% by drafting a group. Maybe extreme 40% if you "suck" the wheels in front of you at 5-10 cm distance, or pull your front wheel 10-20 cm between the rear wheels of 2 parallel riders in front of you (I do it sometimes, although it is a little dangerous).


So: Don't be surprised if properly drafting a group at 36 km/h requires similar power as solo riding at less than 30km/h .

rubiksoval

In a big enough group, you can go 50-55 km/h on the same power. I've done races in which we averaged 31.5 mph, and my average power was in the 230s. It's nice.

ZHVelo

Correct, I agree with you fully.

I said not low because even rubik really cannot dispute that.

ZHVelo

So despite me quoting you his exact words, you interpret his various threads to guess what his 'real' motive for asking was?

Edit: Look, I have gotten into arguments with people because I do what you just did so I get where you are coming from. But in this case he clearly wanted to know where he stands as a beginner. And it makes sense - no normal person would ask if they, as a beginner, already compare to pros. That comparison makes no sense. One would have to be deluded and arrogant to ask for such a comparison.

ZHVelo

Yea, the more I look into segments that are longer and flatter, the more I realize a lot of the top results were done in at least a small group.

WhyFi

As a beginner what? There's ambiguity there and I think it's perfectly sensible to bring in context from his other threads.

gregf83 

’Untrained’ in cycling doesn’t mean he wasn’t fit. 19 yr olds have plenty of time for sports. It wouldn’t take long for a fit soccer or rugby player to have decent power on a bike.

ZHVelo

I don't know about you but "beginner competitive" is an oxymoron to me. Especially considering OP mentioned he had no cycling or any other endurance history. Sorry, but this is very clear cut.

WhyFi

Not an oxymoron to me, at all - I've seen cat 5 races.

caloso

???

Every racer ever had to have a first race. Most of us start out just riding for recreation/transportation/exercise, but occasionally people want to jump right into racing, especially if they have an athletic background.

rubiksoval

Okay, then.

rubiksoval

No, I stand by my first post. It's probably low relative to anyone he wants to compete with.

Which is perfectly, 100% fine.

In no way whatsoever is being at any specific level a bad thing, especially if you have a desire to improve upon that and are trying to understand the various factors that impact performance. Doubly especially as someone who just started.

Triple especially in cycling, in which case he may be perfectly fine in competition provided he learns how it works, regardless of whether or not his FTP is at any particular level. That's what's great about bike racing: all that matters is the order of crossing the line, not how many watts it takes to get there.

gregf83 

Someone who buys a bike to ride around on doesn't post questions on a bike forum trying to gauge their strength or fitness level. Hard to imagine another reason other than interested in competition of some type.

rubiksoval

Just for future reference.



https://usacycling.org/get-involved/find-support

ZHVelo

How many people here do you think race?

I don't. Yet I have subscribe to Strava, I post here, I post on ****** and I am on a cycling discord.

ZHVelo

Being a beginner to competitive racing isn't the same thing as being a beginner to cycling.

But let's run with your folly. Put him into your cat 5 beginner competition.

https://zwiftinsider.com/rider-categ...w-do-you-rank/

According to this 3.11 is at the very top end of cat 5.

OP has an FTP of 3.21.

So do you still maintain that his FTP is low for what you call beginner competition?

And don't come back with racing is more about skill than raw power, because a) OP asked about power and b) you passed judgment on his power.

ZHVelo

OP mentioned he does not have such a background.

WhyFi

I can't figure out why you're so invested in this. Are you that desperate to try to save face on being wrong? Or is it that you don't like the implications of your own performance relative to someone that's being described as a beginner?

rubiksoval

You're so out of your element. You were wrong. Just move on.

rubiksoval

Probably both.

gregf83 

It's in line with beginner competition associated with Cat 4/5 races. Around here, which isn't bike racing mecca, he'd be unlikely to leave 4/5 with an FTP of 3.2.

denvertrout

It is a great starting point for only 3 weeks on the bike. Assuming that you continue to progress and improve your skill, if you wanted to race you have the potential to do quite well. Not sure what all the nonsense back and forth above is about.. Continue to advance and enjoy.

topflightpro

As noted before, competition is about crossing the line first, not who puts out the most watts. And often times, the guy who crosses the line first put out fewer watts than other racers.

ZHVelo

Great reply rubik, as usual.