Noonievut

700x40mm. On those rims (internal diameter 23mm) they're closer to 42mm. I use the bike on gravel roads/trails when doing mutli-surface rides.

nun

Here is my tried and tested setup of a Carradice Camper and an Ortlieb Classic on a relatively new Specialized Diverge.
The components are 105 and the gearing of 48/32 x 11/34 is good for touring. I have replaced the stock 24 spoke
DTSwiss wheels with 32 spoke HED Eroica/G rims on White hubs and 32 mm Ultra Gatorskins. As I strap my saddle bag to
the seat post I'm using a Nitto S83 and a Brooks Swift saddle. Last year I had planned to take this bike to the
UK to ride from Land's End to John O'Groat's, but I obviously had to cancel that trip.

djb

Hi there monsieur nun.
re the 32 gatorskins, if ever you'd like to try a different tire, I've ridden 28 gatorskins for years, but decided to put on some 32 supremes. Just like my love for them in 26 on my Troll, the 700x32 supremes are noticeably more comfortable and faster than the 28 gatorskins.
The ride quality is really nice, just like with the 2 and 1.6inch versions on the Troll.
Cheers

Noonievut

So long as I’m staying in B&B’s or other non-camping accommodations this minimal set up is good for days (I wash the bike clothes after the ride and they’re dry the next morning).

nun

Thanks for the recommendation. The combo of the Diverge's front "suspension" and the 32mm tire's volume makes for a nice ride and I've done lots of miles on gatorskins mostly with puncture resistance in mind, but last week I got a flat from a sharpe little stone that embedded itself close to the side wall. Anyway, I'll give the supremes a try.

djb

That's right, I forgot about the suspension fork thing with that bike.
I tried the 32mm Supremes really more for a change to the gatorskins, I may be over exaggerating the difference, but they do have a more flexible sidewall, which gives the extra cush,but of course will be less tough than a gatorskin sidewall. I just figured I had such good life and ride feel out of the 26inch versions on my troll over so many kilometres, that I'd try them out in 700.
*like what I've read of 32 gatorskins measuring 30mm, the Supremes also measure to only 30mm, so bit narrower than stated on my rims (probably 17 or 19mm internal width)

anyway, it's fun sometimes just to try out different tires.

str

hello djb, and 40mm are noticeably more comfortable and faster than the 32 gatorskins )

djb

shhh, and don't tell anybody, but on rough roads, 45mm are even more comfortable and faster than 40mm
(but completely depends on the specific tire)

Just the other day I fixed a friends bike and when finished, checked the tire pressures of the 42mm super tough commuter tires. I was amazed by how stiff the sidewall and entire carcass was, so much that even at 35psi, I could barely push any part of the tire in with my thumb. I'm sure they ride like slow planks of wood compared to a nice tire.

djb

Nun, check this article out. Yes this fellow has an agenda (selling his rather dear tires) but his findings pretty much match my real world observations with wider Supremes, even with the jumbo 2 inch 50mm (measuring 45 on my rims) on my Troll all loaded up.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/12-myths-in-cycling-1-wider-tires-are-slower/

I see the big bonus as more rider comfort with less fatigue, and great cornering as a bonus, which I love.

str

but only off road, on road better 40mm

and better get some supple tires ...

djb

ya, I tend to agree on that. Now that I've spent time on both the larger Supremes, 50 and 42mm (but remember only 45 and 37 for me) the main advantage of the wider ones is that when carrying more load weight than you do, it makes live easier on the rims/panniers, and reassuring that I can encounter a really wide range of surfaces and conditions and feel quite confident due to the larger footprint.

but yes, the smaller ones I have on now have been great on pavement,and quite light at 440g I think, which is a nice bonus.
it's an incentive to lighten up my load!

tang1223

This is just ignorance with simple physics. The lower your center of gravity, the stabler is your ride. Not only does a heavy bag on the handlebar raises the center of gravity of the rig, the bag catches more wind and impacts the steering. This can be a serious problem with strong cross winds.

Unca_Sam

My $0.02, but the convenience of having nutrition, rain gear, etc within reach while riding might override the concerns of higher CoG or increased stability in crosswinds. Convenience is a 100% of the time thing, while those other listed concerns are maybe something to worry about 10% of a ride, depending on conditions?

nun

Essentially correct. However, with light weight set ups "stability" isn't as big an issue as if you are carrying 50 or 60lbs of stuff in 4 x panniers. Placing weight low down and far from the center of mass, ie. the rider, will make the bike stabler, some people might call it sluggish and hard to control. Putting weight up high will raise the center of mass, but if it's only 10lbs and is kept close to the rider as with bikepacking set ups then the moment isn't that large. Handlebar bags do affect steering, but I don't think wind is a big issue, the bigger issue is the weight. Again if you keep it low, maybe 5lbs or less you quickly get use to it.

mgopack42 

Not loaded, but pre-planning for a trip (see Post). I hope I can managed the trip set up this way.

Cheapo Amazon saddle pack, and under top tube bag. Revalate Designs top tube bag and feed bags, and Route Works handlebar bag.

cyccommute 

You are being a bit disingenuous in your weight comparisons. In this day and age, not too many people are going to be carrying around 50 to 60 lbs in a traditional 4 pannier setup. 30 to 40 lbs would be closer to the mark. On the other hand, I can’t see how you can carry 10 lbs with a bikepacking load and camp. My bikepacking loads with camping stuff and eating freeze-dried, are close to 30 lbs. I can’t see how I could shed 20 lbs and still eat or have water to drink.

As a rule, I don’t do extreme downhill off-pavement on a rigid road touring bike. I do, however, do that kind of riding on my bikepacking bike. I have to be much more careful while descending on a steep rocky trail with a bikepacking load to avoid face plants. It’s quite astounding how quickly the bike can flip over with a lighter load. It requires a much more dynamic riding style…getting back off the saddle and going easy on the brakes…than unloaded mountain bike riding on slopes that are not all that steep.

str

sorry, what? strong crosswinds a serious problem? nahhhhh sorry that I laugh, that must be a joke?
I am riding this setup since years on long tours, where I cook and sleep outside, or my rides have been wind free, or I am not sensible enough to strong winds
There is no ""serious problem"" anywhere with wind.

polymorphself 

Trust me, I’ve tried.

nun

As per the usual convention I did not include food or water and I was being generic in my estimates. Many bike packers don't bother with a tent and so can keep their load very light, but some do go "bag happy" and strap on a bag wherever there is space. My saddIebag is 12lbs (includes a 1.5lb sleeping bag and a 1.75lb tent) and my front bag is around 6lbs, but varies as I put food in it. You then have to add 2x 1L bottles and the food I carry is stuff like couscous, ramen and jerky. I stop at markets often and will carry flat bread, cheese or salami for the day in my front bag and fruit in my back pockets. The most extreme ground I ride is gravel roads.

gauvins

Taken here. Quite isolated, accessible only via forest roads. This trip took me from Quebec city to Jasper (where I wait for family) on a northerly route. Forest roads for the first 400kms, and then (mostly) the northernmost T-can.

Happy to report zero flat (one busted spoke, lightly damaged rear derailleur due to difficult conditions in heavy gravel).

Bearhawker

^^ that's a bit of a spicy name, no?

gauvins

Actually, a play on words. La Patate du Coin would translate to something like The Corner Fries. It happens to be next to a lake called Gouin. So... La Patate du Gouin is hilarious if you are from Québec.

BertCooper

My trusty old Peugeot (vintage 1985) touring bike on way from Villars-sur-Ollon, Switz. to Barcelona, Spain (train from Valence to Nimes after a 200 km day). Prior day was Grand St. Bernard (light drizzle on the downward side, versus loose gravel going down the Petit St. Bernard). Styling it in my classic Bell helmet. Skipped the camping gear and just stayed at hostels (heading to a multi-week language class in Spain). Prior trips in France and Geneva-Munich dragging 2 person tent plus sleeping bag suggested hostels were better option (except for a week with 'slightly inebriated' Australians in Munich.) Didn't break spokes on Peugeot like I did with same load on Trek 412. Neither budget nor desire for front panniers. Ah, for the days when the dollar was king...

rivers

5 day, 250 mile trip. 2 days with friends and staying in b&bs and 3 days on my own, camping. Bike is an Orro Terra C- originally it was the 105 hydro model (as that's what was in the shop and in my size following a bike theft). I swapped put the 50/34 for a 46/30 chainset and put an 11-32 cassette on. Might get a wolf/goat link and go a bit lower. Tyres are 40mm Hutchinson Touregs. Handlebar and saddle bag are Altura Vortex. Alpkit Elan bivvy attached to handlebar bag. Custom frame bag.

str