Squats for Cycling
#1
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Squats for Cycling
Would doing Squats for cycling have any benefits?
Anyone out there do squats?
and leg weights? presses?
if so how often a week would you do that? thanks
Anyone out there do squats?
and leg weights? presses?
if so how often a week would you do that? thanks
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I lift weights twice/week during the off-season, once/week during the race season, except for the week before 'A' races when I'll usually skip the weights as part of my taper. I do complex barbell lifts like squats, overhead press, deadlifts, rows/chins, etc.
I think it helps on the bike. Not so much at threshold and higher intensities, where it's more about how much oxygen your cardiovascular system can deliver to the muscles. But at sub-threshold intensities some studies have shown that the additional strength gained from weight lifting makes your legs more fatigue-resistant. Basically my "all day pace" is at a higher power output than it would be if I wasn't lifting.
There are other benefits off the bike, especially as you get older. Losing bone density and muscle mass are common as people age, and strength training can prevent that. Cycling is not a load-bearing activity so it doesn't do any good for bone density and joint health.
I think it helps on the bike. Not so much at threshold and higher intensities, where it's more about how much oxygen your cardiovascular system can deliver to the muscles. But at sub-threshold intensities some studies have shown that the additional strength gained from weight lifting makes your legs more fatigue-resistant. Basically my "all day pace" is at a higher power output than it would be if I wasn't lifting.
There are other benefits off the bike, especially as you get older. Losing bone density and muscle mass are common as people age, and strength training can prevent that. Cycling is not a load-bearing activity so it doesn't do any good for bone density and joint health.
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I think squats have benefit, but in the off season. I'd concentrate on riding, including intervals, tempo rides, hill workouts,etc. Trying to mix squats in with this will detract from cycling specific training.
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I work my legs twice a week in the off season, once a week during the season. Studies have shown that once a week at lowered reps (2 sets of ~5, to failure) retains muscle cross section area at little cost in training load. Works for me.
During the season, I do half squats, down to a 90° knee angle or a bit lower. That's inside the range of motion on the bike and allows the use of heavier weights with a lesser risk of injury. I also do single leg presses, same range of motion, standing one-legged calf raises to full range of motion, and bent leg lifts on the Roman Chair bringing knees higher than hands. Single leg presses are particularly interesting because one can vary the load on the quads vs. hams and glutes by changing one's foot position on the board. Good for correcting weaknesses.
In the off season I add knee extensions from 150°-180° only and sometimes straight-legged deadlifts.
For me, weights increases the time I can spend overgeared on very steep hills and possibly the power I can put down there. There is no appropriate gear for spinning up 18% grades, at least for us mortals. As noted above, anytime one can spin, one gets no extra power by lifting weights, however I also believe it increases time to exhaustion at lower effort levels.
During the season, I do half squats, down to a 90° knee angle or a bit lower. That's inside the range of motion on the bike and allows the use of heavier weights with a lesser risk of injury. I also do single leg presses, same range of motion, standing one-legged calf raises to full range of motion, and bent leg lifts on the Roman Chair bringing knees higher than hands. Single leg presses are particularly interesting because one can vary the load on the quads vs. hams and glutes by changing one's foot position on the board. Good for correcting weaknesses.
In the off season I add knee extensions from 150°-180° only and sometimes straight-legged deadlifts.
For me, weights increases the time I can spend overgeared on very steep hills and possibly the power I can put down there. There is no appropriate gear for spinning up 18% grades, at least for us mortals. As noted above, anytime one can spin, one gets no extra power by lifting weights, however I also believe it increases time to exhaustion at lower effort levels.
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I do squats with varying regularity.
I usually take 2 workouts from the core advantage book, and when I get to the squats workout I change it up and do 5 push-up sets of about 7 push-ups. After each set I do a set of 15 squats for 4 sets.
This has really helped me stay loose and avoid back pain.
I wish I did these twice a week, but I get lazy and sometimes miss a week. When I do I feel my body starting to tighten up and back pain return.
I off set the push-ups at the end of the workout with a couple of sets of curls and 2 sets of 5 pullups. Without off setting the push-ups I find I run into a lot of upper back issues.
I usually take 2 workouts from the core advantage book, and when I get to the squats workout I change it up and do 5 push-up sets of about 7 push-ups. After each set I do a set of 15 squats for 4 sets.
This has really helped me stay loose and avoid back pain.
I wish I did these twice a week, but I get lazy and sometimes miss a week. When I do I feel my body starting to tighten up and back pain return.
I off set the push-ups at the end of the workout with a couple of sets of curls and 2 sets of 5 pullups. Without off setting the push-ups I find I run into a lot of upper back issues.
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Squats really aren't good for your knees. The wall sit quad exercise is much safer and very effective.
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Old wives tail. Truth is that half squats are bad for your knees. It is 90 degrees that produces the highest loads on the knees, then add changing directions at that angle and you have doubled or tripled the load. That angle is a dead spot during cycling so it's not an issue, and also why half squats are nothing like cycling.
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Nonsense. The only risk squats pose to your knees is if you do them wrong (letting knees collapse in at the bottom as you start to go back up, which is often a result of loading too much wait on the bar and not squatting to full depth). Learning to properly squat to full depth made a huge improvement in my formerly creaky knees (as well as hip mobility).
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I work my legs twice a week in the off season, once a week during the season. Studies have shown that once a week at lowered reps (2 sets of ~5, to failure) retains muscle cross section area at little cost in training load. Works for me.
During the season, I do half squats, down to a 90° knee angle or a bit lower. That's inside the range of motion on the bike and allows the use of heavier weights with a lesser risk of injury. I also do single leg presses, same range of motion, standing one-legged calf raises to full range of motion, and bent leg lifts on the Roman Chair bringing knees higher than hands. Single leg presses are particularly interesting because one can vary the load on the quads vs. hams and glutes by changing one's foot position on the board. Good for correcting weaknesses.
In the off season I add knee extensions from 150°-180° only and sometimes straight-legged deadlifts.
For me, weights increases the time I can spend overgeared on very steep hills and possibly the power I can put down there. There is no appropriate gear for spinning up 18% grades, at least for us mortals. As noted above, anytime one can spin, one gets no extra power by lifting weights, however I also believe it increases time to exhaustion at lower effort levels.
During the season, I do half squats, down to a 90° knee angle or a bit lower. That's inside the range of motion on the bike and allows the use of heavier weights with a lesser risk of injury. I also do single leg presses, same range of motion, standing one-legged calf raises to full range of motion, and bent leg lifts on the Roman Chair bringing knees higher than hands. Single leg presses are particularly interesting because one can vary the load on the quads vs. hams and glutes by changing one's foot position on the board. Good for correcting weaknesses.
In the off season I add knee extensions from 150°-180° only and sometimes straight-legged deadlifts.
For me, weights increases the time I can spend overgeared on very steep hills and possibly the power I can put down there. There is no appropriate gear for spinning up 18% grades, at least for us mortals. As noted above, anytime one can spin, one gets no extra power by lifting weights, however I also believe it increases time to exhaustion at lower effort levels.
#10
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However that may be, at 71 I am by far the oldest person squatting heavy at my gym and the only person squatting heavy who does not wrap their knees. I had a meniscus snip about 10 years ago. I got injured doing fast straight legged deadlifts. Doctor who scoped me said my knee cartilage was perfect.
I've been following a program used by European elites. The cyclists and Nordic skiers being studied used half squats, probably because of the specificity issue mentioned in the above link.
Squat however you want. My squat regimen has definitely improved my strength endurance.
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#12
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Old wives tail. Truth is that half squats are bad for your knees. It is 90 degrees that produces the highest loads on the knees, then add changing directions at that angle and you have doubled or tripled the load. That angle is a dead spot during cycling so it's not an issue, and also why half squats are nothing like cycling.
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IMHO squats carry more injury risk for the back than the knees, which is why it's important to use strict form and use a weight that doesn't cause your form to break down.
Last edited by jsk; 07-27-16 at 09:44 AM.
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Historically on this forum, several have found that the solution to their tendinitis/tendinosis was simply working up to lifting heavy at low reps. Works for me too.
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Just think about this. Squats don't do ANYTHING beneficial for the menisci. Yes, toned leg muscles will help keep the knee functioning properly and help avoid injuries to your menisci. But as I said, the squats themselves aren't doing anything beneficial for them specifically. What they do is add the unnecessary risk of injury, especially if squatting technique is bad. But even with proper form, people have torn their meniscus while squatting. Given that there are other safer, just as effective exercises, my old wife asks me why I would risk doing them? No good answer, so I don't do them and use the wall sit quad exercise instead. The knee is a joint, and like any other type of joint, human or mechanical, it will wear with time and stress. Why help it along.
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And I'm saying that squatting to full depth doesn't increase the load on your knee joint, it increases the eccentric load on your hamstrings and glutes. Also strengthening the muscles around a joint is good for the joint. Barbell squats have absolutely been good for my knees.
IMHO squats carry more injury risk for the back than the knees, which is why it's important to use strict form and use a weight that doesn't cause your form to break down.
IMHO squats carry more injury risk for the back than the knees, which is why it's important to use strict form and use a weight that doesn't cause your form to break down.
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There is a range of opinions on this issue. I think this article presents a good overview of the issues: https://www.lookgreatnaked.com/articl...e_exercise.pdf
However that may be, at 71 I am by far the oldest person squatting heavy at my gym and the only person squatting heavy who does not wrap their knees. I had a meniscus snip about 10 years ago. I got injured doing fast straight legged deadlifts. Doctor who scoped me said my knee cartilage was perfect.
I've been following a program used by European elites. The cyclists and Nordic skiers being studied used half squats, probably because of the specificity issue mentioned in the above link.
Squat however you want. My squat regimen has definitely improved my strength endurance.
However that may be, at 71 I am by far the oldest person squatting heavy at my gym and the only person squatting heavy who does not wrap their knees. I had a meniscus snip about 10 years ago. I got injured doing fast straight legged deadlifts. Doctor who scoped me said my knee cartilage was perfect.
I've been following a program used by European elites. The cyclists and Nordic skiers being studied used half squats, probably because of the specificity issue mentioned in the above link.
Squat however you want. My squat regimen has definitely improved my strength endurance.
They can be a good idea for sport specific training, but they aren't safer.
I squat "heavy" with my personal best being 402 lbs. I don't wrap my knees either.
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But, more importantly: this forum is a terrible place to get advice on how to lift weights. This is a question you should ask in a forum dedicated to lifting weights, or perhaps at a ****** like this: https://www.******.com/r/powerlifting/
I say this as someone who competes at powerlifting, was an assistant coach on an IPF world championship team (my wife was on the team) and has received instruction from former world champion lifters. The advice you'll get here on lifting is as bad as the "cardio" advice you'll get at places like bodybuilding.com (and some of it is truly terrible, you should check it out for a laugh sometime). On this very thread, there is deapee and CrankyNeck who are clearly out of their depth.
Last edited by OBoile; 07-27-16 at 01:16 PM.
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Uh, other tissues also adopt to stress. There's a reason why TdF riders don't have massive amounts of tendinitis after a couple of stages like a novice cyclist would have.
Last edited by OBoile; 07-27-16 at 01:38 PM.
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And I'm saying that squatting to full depth doesn't increase the load on your knee joint, it increases the eccentric load on your hamstrings and glutes. Also strengthening the muscles around a joint is good for the joint. Barbell squats have absolutely been good for my knees.
IMHO squats carry more injury risk for the back than the knees, which is why it's important to use strict form and use a weight that doesn't cause your form to break down.
IMHO squats carry more injury risk for the back than the knees, which is why it's important to use strict form and use a weight that doesn't cause your form to break down.
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I bought myself some squat stands about 2 month ago and started doing squatting. I do front squats full ROM ass to the ground using an Olympic style grip and also do back squats full ROM and also do wide grip deadlifts ( AKA snatch grip deadlifts ). I don't do them to improve my cycling but to build and maintain an overall strength. I feel a lot more comfortable squatting beyond parallel then half-way.
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I was going to say no, because over the course of a ride (not just a sprint) it's your aerobic capacity and not leg strength that limits your speed on a bike. But it looks like pretty much everyone disagrees with me, and at least some of you have expressed good reasons for doing so.
#25
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I was going to say no, because over the course of a ride (not just a sprint) it's your aerobic capacity and not leg strength that limits your speed on a bike. But it looks like pretty much everyone disagrees with me, and at least some of you have expressed good reasons for doing so.
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