this is gonna get ugly
#1
short WIDE Clyde
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Oil City,PA USA
Posts: 238
Bikes: 2014 Nashbar flatbar roadbike
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
this is gonna get ugly
Somebody has to start the Cav vs Sagan argument, it might as well be me.... it's been 30 years since I did any racing and yes I "only watch it on tv a few days a year" but it seemed pretty clear to me that there was not room for Cavendish to try to pass between Sagan and the barrier, he asked for trouble and got what he asked for
#4
Passista
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,595
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaņa pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 720 Times
in
395 Posts
Looks like both were to blame, Cavendish tried to force his pass but Sagan didn't need to flick his elbow like that.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,010
Bikes: Bianchi San Jose, Dahon Mu Uno, Origami Wasp
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times
in
15 Posts
This is interesting. Robbie McEwan was saying he thought Sagan wasn't to blame when he was calling the race live this morning, but now just tweeted that after watching the airiel view several times thinks he should be DQ'd.
#6
Senior Member
I haven't seen any video that shows the elbow contacted anything. I think the elbow was a protective reflex when he sensed contact with another bike. I think Sagan wasn't cutting Cavendish off, he was in the process of attempting to go around another bike.
Cavendish's team rep said he was elbowed off his bike by Sagan. I think that is BS.
Cavendish's team rep said he was elbowed off his bike by Sagan. I think that is BS.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,173
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2432 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times
in
395 Posts
Somebody has to start the Cav vs Sagan argument, it might as well be me.... it's been 30 years since I did any racing and yes I "only watch it on tv a few days a year" but it seemed pretty clear to me that there was not room for Cavendish to try to pass between Sagan and the barrier, he asked for trouble and got what he asked for
And for the record Sagan is my favorite racer.
#8
Senior Member
cav did not have room.. if you watch the tape.. you will see cav try to head in to sagan before he tries to make forward progress .. now.. sagan may have moved on cav.. but the first blood was from cav.. trying to take sagan off his line... there was no room.. but cav tried to make room.. headbutts sagan.. and when that did nothing to take sagan off his line... cav charged in.. and im pretty sure that sagan will be taken off the tour... but cav did not respect the sprint.. sagan was rock solid once he was headbutted.. at that point cav should have thrown out the anchor... but.. it looks bad for both... i can see it going either way.. too bad.. i like seeing sagan race..
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,173
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2432 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times
in
395 Posts
Here's the tape in slow mo. Freeze it at 0.04. Cav is making his pass, his line is wide open with plenty of room.
At 0.05-0.07 Sagan moves into Cav's line, there's nobody on his left pushing him over, he wasn't trying to pass anyone, it was deliberate.
Freeze it at 0.10. Sagan is leaned way over to the right, his head is above his right shifter. There is nobody directly to his front he would be trying to pass. His shoulder and elbow are stuck out to the side at the same instant Cav goes down. Sorry, but there's no rational way to defend Sagan.
At 0.05-0.07 Sagan moves into Cav's line, there's nobody on his left pushing him over, he wasn't trying to pass anyone, it was deliberate.
Freeze it at 0.10. Sagan is leaned way over to the right, his head is above his right shifter. There is nobody directly to his front he would be trying to pass. His shoulder and elbow are stuck out to the side at the same instant Cav goes down. Sorry, but there's no rational way to defend Sagan.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Penalty is BS. It's 100% Cavendish's fault for forcing himself in to a spot that didn't exist. What was Sagan supposed to do, stop and move over? F that.
#14
Senior Member
At what time in the video should I stop to see elbow contact?
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,173
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2432 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times
in
395 Posts
#18
The Left Coast, USA
Right decision, but yet another negative TdF story.
No surprise no US sponsors. Tragic stuff.
No surprise no US sponsors. Tragic stuff.
#21
Senior Member
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,173
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2432 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times
in
395 Posts
Aside from the fact that their legs are touching in the millisecond of that frame shot, why do you think Cav crashed? His wheels aren't running over anything. And it's not even debatable that his line was wide open before Sagan veered over into him.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,173
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2432 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times
in
395 Posts
Well if you watch the slow mo video I posted above, freeze it at 0.04 and still fail to see his line was WIDE open, not "closing" then you'll never see it. But obviously the race officials agree with me.