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need advice with DIY bike fit (road bike)

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need advice with DIY bike fit (road bike)

Old 07-16-21, 05:42 PM
  #26  
philbob57
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Game,

Looks like the angular orientation of the cleats force your feet into an unnatural position. If you're racing, it may make sense to force yourself into low-Q, knees to the top tube, ball of foot on the pedal axle position with your cleat is an unnatural position. OTOH, I suspect that forcing your foot where it doesn't want to go may cause real damage, especially to your knee.

When we rode with toe clips and straps, cleats used to be positioned by riding in a new pair of shoes until the rear edge of the pedals mark a line. Cleats were installed to match the line. I've forgotten how many miles that usually required. In any case, the cleats were placed in the position that one rode most naturally. That's harder to do with SPD pedals, but stress due to bad cleat position sometimes is obvious. (Sometimes it's subtle, too; that can cause a lot of long-lasting pain.) I ride really clipless (pinned flat pedals, no cleats), so I can't tell you what to do with SPDs, but I do think the angular orientation of the SPD clip is wrong for you.

I think you're on the right track in figuring out your natural position. If the 110 mm stem feels more comfortable than 90, 110 is a better choice at this point. That might change as you get more acclimated to your bike, but I think the next test, if you one, is probably better with a 120 than a 100.
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Old 07-20-21, 10:55 PM
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The very simple though long-range fix is called going to the gym. Strength training. Barbell squats, core work focusing on the back, that sort of thing and all the standard supporting strength work that one does and stretching, stretching. People don't seem to understand that to ride injury free for any real distance requires balanced strength. It takes forever to get it on the bike with focused training. One can diddle the fit and all the tiny details, but strength training resolves all those issues.

For your calves and ankles, one=legged calf raises on a stair, full range of motion, to exhaustion. Start with 3 sets and gradually get so you can save time and just do one set of 30 on each side. 30 is plenty.

For the legs, one can also do one-legged knee bends on a chair, but that's really hard to start with and takes a lot more will-power to stick with it. Barbell squats are easier and more rewarding. One starts with the naked bar. Gradually, gradually increase depth and reps before adding any weight.

The problem is simply that you're weak. Sorry, but it is what it is. Bike fit is way, way down the list in importance compared to strength. Running is also good for developing strength, too. If you can run, you can ride, but running comes with it's own possibility-of-injury issues, with which strength training can also help.
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-...e-athlete.html
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Old 07-21-21, 04:27 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
The problem is simply that you're weak.

I'm sorry, but this is nothing to do with my latest problem, I don't believe that incorrect cleat position will be fixed by strength training, actually knee problems can be developed from barbell squats with the wrong technique (like riding with wrong bike fit).



Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
The very simple though long-range fix is called going to the gym. Strength training.

I'm doing workouts at home without barbell, actually I think most of the people who wants to be healthy (not getting varicose veins and so on) need just dedication and a simple week workout plan with base exercises and the same applies to cycling.
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Old 07-21-21, 08:12 AM
  #29  
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This isn't just about your problem, but good advice from carbon fiber boy in general. Certainly in the right direction with his ideas.

Being a former personal trainer myself who has been through those bodybuilding days, I can properly acknowledge the sheer amount of stress and punishment heavy weights and placing yourself under a barbell can cause. None of it is necessary. With a simple resistance band, being mindful of how your joints align in coordination with the line of force coming from your band/weight of choice, you'll see excellent results by focusing on quality over quantity. I like to focus on isometric contractions and achieving the nastiest pump as possible. This paired with being careful about my eating habits (more like when, how often, how fast I eat... if anything my diet selection has actually become less strict over time) , it has contributed to increased muscle mass and a better mind muscle connection.
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Old 07-21-21, 08:14 AM
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The other thing I might add, is to stress the important of training your WHOLE body, not just your legs. I've heard different people claiming that upper body strength is useless for cycling. This is complete nonsense. Your lower back and abs in particularly are extremely important for maintaining good riding posture which in turn increases power transfer. You have to train everything.

Carbonfiberboy training your ankle flexors is great advice, btw
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Old 07-21-21, 08:45 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Moisture
The other thing I might add, is to stress the important of training your WHOLE body, not just your legs. I've heard different people claiming that upper body strength is useless for cycling. This is complete nonsense. Your lower back and abs in particularly are extremely important for maintaining good riding posture which in turn increases power transfer. You have to train everything.
I'm not arguing with "you have to train everything", I'm trying to say that I don't need any barbell exercises, I can do squats and it's variations instead. I disagree with the message that strength is more important than bike fit in my case, it's just wrong.

Originally Posted by Moisture
Carbonfiberboy training your ankle flexors is great advice, btw
I agree, this is what I was doing before I've started riding a bike, but I can't see how it will help me with bike fit.
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Old 08-12-21, 04:52 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by GameHasNoName
I'm not arguing with "you have to train everything", I'm trying to say that I don't need any barbell exercises, I can do squats and it's variations instead. I disagree with the message that strength is more important than bike fit in my case, it's just wrong.



I agree, this is what I was doing before I've started riding a bike, but I can't see how it will help me with bike fit.
I agree that you don't need a barbell to see success with resistance training.

I think that resistance training is extremely important and has many different beneficial carry over effects in life.

By focusing on your nutrition in particular, not to mention training, you can lose excess body weight and strengthen your stabilizer muscles which can completely change your bike fit,
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Old 08-12-21, 07:24 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by GameHasNoName
Hi!

I'm trying to set my position relatively to the bottom bracket correctly (updating the seat height accordingly), but I'm facing a problem. When I move my saddle far back to unload my arms and not sliding forward I would feel mostly ok on the trainer. On the road I would feel good only when I do ride with minimal effort, like in zone 1, but I can ride like that all day without discomfort. When I put some effort it doesn't feel good in the lower back and legs, particularly I feel some strain in the "quadriceps tendon area". I don't have injuries, but also I don't race. By moving saddle forward small amount it's a bit easier to pedal, but I can instantly feel increased pressure on my hands and periodically sliding forward.

The question: what would you try to adjust in the first place if you would be me? I don't think it's because of the stem, because I've tried 90 and 110 with the same success where shorter stem felt really "short". Saddle height was set initially by heel method and adjusted by feel afterwards. I'm thinking it may be the saddle that cause problem, but unsure. The saddle is specialized romin evo, I can't really blame it for comfort, the only thing I'm afraid of is the shape (ramp) may cause sliding forward (and therefore increasing hand pressure) in my optimal position relatively to the bottom bracket.

I know it may be better to get a professional bike fit but it's just not possible for me yet and I want to ride So, any your advice would be awesome.

If that is the wrong sub-forum to ask, please, move this post accordingly.

Thank you in advance for your time and effort.
Yeah, well, there it is. Cleat position doesn't really matter much for most folks. Most riders use a cleat/pedal combo which allows some float. Obviously you do too. As long as you're not coming up against the limit of that float, all is sort of OK. If you are, you might want to adjust the cleats until you aren't. Modern pedaling assumes a relaxed calf. It'll flex some anyway, don't worry about that. Just don't force your calves to do any particular thing, except for maybe a minute or two of ultra effort A few people find that their feet are more comfortable on ultra rides if the cleats are further back than the ball of the foot, but that's relatively rare with modern shoes.

The foot rotation thing could be either a muscular imbalance or an issue with neuromuscular coordination. My guess would be the latter, in which case I can suggest a fix, but you have to have a trainer or rollers. Put the bike in a very low gear, like 34 X 25 and spin up either to the point at which you start to bounce on the saddle or 115-120 rpm, whichever comes first. If you bounce, drop down to just below bouncing. Pedal at that rate for essentially as long as you can, no break. Usually the range is 15' -45'. While you're doing that, completely relax your ankles, hold your feet relatively flat, and try to pedal with a layer of air between the insole and your foot's sole, IOW pedal with the uppers and heel cup. This little exercise, once a week, should fix any coordination issues. The idea is to gradually increase the length of the interval to a max of 45' and the rpm to ~120. Yes, your legs will probably hurt like the devil, but that's OK, in fact it's the whole idea. Gotta teach those muscles to contract at the right time. They will learn all by themselves.
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Old 08-16-21, 08:15 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Moisture
By focusing on your nutrition in particular, not to mention training, you can lose excess body weight and strengthen your stabilizer muscles which can completely change your bike fit,
thanks, interesting thing about stabilizer muscles, there is an opinion (from a local bike fit related person) that stabilizer muscles are not doing any good from a racing point of view (I think it's more about high level racing)
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Old 08-16-21, 08:37 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
Cleat position doesn't really matter much for most folks. Most riders use a cleat/pedal combo which allows some float.
But in my case, I've got float and I've developed light knee pain right after 2 years of riding and have to take a break, because of the incorrect cleat position (too much toe in, which was obvious later on the trainer and not so on the road, especially with no previous clip-less pedal experience).

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
As long as you're not coming up against the limit of that float, all is sort of OK. If you are, you might want to adjust the cleats until you aren't. Modern pedaling assumes a relaxed calf. It'll flex some anyway, don't worry about that. Just don't force your calves to do any particular thing, except for maybe a minute or two of ultra effort A few people find that their feet are more comfortable on ultra rides if the cleats are further back than the ball of the foot, but that's relatively rare with modern shoes.

The foot rotation thing could be either a muscular imbalance or an issue with neuromuscular coordination. My guess would be the latter, in which case I can suggest a fix, but you have to have a trainer or rollers. Put the bike in a very low gear, like 34 X 25 and spin up either to the point at which you start to bounce on the saddle or 115-120 rpm, whichever comes first. If you bounce, drop down to just below bouncing. Pedal at that rate for essentially as long as you can, no break. Usually the range is 15' -45'. While you're doing that, completely relax your ankles, hold your feet relatively flat, and try to pedal with a layer of air between the insole and your foot's sole, IOW pedal with the uppers and heel cup. This little exercise, once a week, should fix any coordination issues. The idea is to gradually increase the length of the interval to a max of 45' and the rpm to ~120. Yes, your legs will probably hurt like the devil, but that's OK, in fact it's the whole idea. Gotta teach those muscles to contract at the right time. They will learn all by themselves.
Thanks a lot for your tips, I did some spins like you pointed out and it seems neuromuscular coordination is the issue too! It really helps!
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