helmet4000

In a sign of the times. The Pro's Closet is selling a Giant TCR Advanced 2 PC for $2,999.
https://www.theproscloset.com/produc...SAAEgJ24_D_BwE

However, if available locally, I can buy the same bike online new and pick it up at my local Giant dealer for $2,450

helmet4000

dummy i am ....the used one has zipp 303s

alcjphil

The amount of scuffing on the crank indicates quite a bit of wear. A new bike has a warranty. A used bike doesn't. even with the better wheels that bike isn't worth the price

mstateglfr 

Wow that is a lot of scuffing for a 2021 model. Ridden really hard?...or maybe some pedal spacers are needed?

Kapusta

I can't believe what pro closet asks for some of their stuff.

I emailed them to point out to them that a used Giant Trance frame they were selling for ~$3200 was available new (in stock and with a warranty) for only $50 more. They thanked me for bringing this to their attention and lowered the price $50.

I don't see the frame listed anymore, so some fool must have bought it.

msu2001la

FWIW, those Zipp wheels are significantly older than the bike.

Also, Gatorskins on Zipps.

TMonk

I just bought a brand new Limar airspeed helmet for 89 bucks from TPC, so I there are some deals to be found, just maybe not on bikes/frames?

Good wheel deals too

Psimet2001 

That's a triathlete's calling card.

Psimet2001 

I hesitate to call someone a fool for buying a bike they want at a price they were OK with.

Pros closet does just fine. They've grown from nearly nothing and have built a large company out of it. They have a ton of employees (odds are too many of them) and their job is to flip used bikes at the best prices they can. They'd be doing a bad job if they ended up with tons of bikes that never sold or if they sold everything so low they didn't make any money.

This is the part of enthusiast cycling that will never seemingly die - A bike is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Not what a by-standing enthusiast thinks it's worth.

Prime example - I had 2 used bikes at the swap meet on Sunday. Well done road bike to flat-bar road bike conversions. We did the conversion work but the man we did them for died of a massive heart attack and his girlfriend gave them to us in hopes of moving them along to new owners. I felt I under priced them at $600 to move them along. I had people coming up instantly and offering $350 and $400 then talking smack about how I didn't know anything. "Anyone who buys them for that is a fool" kind of stuff. I waited until the doors opened and the actual public came in. Had a few want them but be iffy on the price so they wanted to think about it. Then sold them without hesitation to another buyer. They all came back later looking for them again. All were upset they didn't get them.

A bike is worth what someone will pay for it. If you're not buying it and the seller didn't ask you then your opinion isn't needed and may not even be valid.

Kapusta

If someone is willing to pay $3,150 for something used when the exact same thing is currently available for $3,250 new with a warranty (that is just 3% more), they are a fool in my book.

Your example is not comparable. Someone would have absolutely been a fool to pay $600 for your used bike if the exact same thing was currently available new for $620.

Psimet2001 

You can buy a used Ford Transit with at least 30k miles on it for that same as new plus a $10-$20k dealer premium. By your math the whole world is full of fools or there's something you're missing about the realities of the transaction.

Kapusta

Who buys a used car with over 30K for only 3% under the price of a new one when a new one is actually available?

Even in today's crazy market, nobody is going to do that. And these are cars that might actually still have a warranty.

WorldIRC

Lots of folks in Canada doing that, no other choice.

Kapusta

Not the same thing at all, because in the case I am describing there IS a choice.

How hard is this for some people to understand?

I am talking about someone buying something used when the brand new bike frame (or car) is IN STOCK and AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE for only 3% more.

himespau 

I look at used bike prices that I think are way overpriced and the think about the last time I bought a frame and then all of what I paid for a mix of used and new part to hang on it and realize that I paid at least as much if not more than that and slowly shuffle out of the room with my mouth shut.

Psimet2001 

As I said before - it's because there's something about the transaction you're missing. The bike in question sold, yes? Then it represented a value that the buyer was willing to pay for. That's how buying and selling works.

Troul 

the only way i can (maybe) see it possible is that the buyer not knowing the item is in stock, even after looking using there resources.

I can provide a recent example:
When I was looking for a New Trek, the search function that Trek has, sucks (putting it lightly) . The results did not return anything that matched my criteria. However, after some creative techniques with the search feature, I was able to get some hits. With those hits, I was able to communicate with long distant Trek retailers to point me in the direction of closer places meeting my requirements.
It took more effort than I would expect the general consumer to put into it.

Psimet2001 

I am in the industry and I have been saying for years how I couldn't even afford a new bike if I wanted. We even talked about it 2 shows back on the podcast and I had a great thread out on Twitter that a lot of industry people have been hitting me up on behind the scenes.

BUT... my current road bike I got the frame through an industry friend. Let's just say it was a deal I couldn't refuse. In the end I spent about what a new one with a slightly lower spec would have cost and it took me much longer to get all the parts and build it....but it always seems cheaper when it's $100-$200 at a time.

PeteHski

Looks like it was ridden by a duck!

mstateglfr 

With regard to pricing of anything- yes yes yes, the concept that an item is worth whatever it can be sold for is correct. At the same time, 999 people can view that item as being overpriced even if 1 person buys it.
The two concepts can both exist. It was worth the cost to the 1 person and it was overpriced to the 999 other people. Neither group is wrong...though one group's opinion is clearly in the majority.

This happens all the time for wastefully crafted boutique stuff from Paul, Silca, etc- a few find value in it being MUSA or inherently limited stock and many others view it as just being overly expensive compared to similar options.
There is no actual right or wrong- both views can apply at the same time.

blacknbluebikes 

There are a lot of situations where "not all buyers have all information." Doesn't make them fools, necessarily. Sometimes the cost of acquiring "all the information" is a barrier. "Over analysis leads to paralysis" comes to mind here. Maybe I could have gotten those shares of Google a little cheaper in 2009. Silly fool.

Kapusta

Just because a buyer is willing to pay a given price does not mean he/she is not a fool for doing so.

By your logic, nobody has ever made a foolish purchasing decision.

Heck, I have made purchasing decisions that I later realized were foolish. I doubt anyone can say otherwise.

Psimet2001 

I'll take issue with that. Sure in a 1 out of 1,000 it would seem like that one person just missed something...but who cares.

On the boutique thing - Paul and Silca, etc. are selling. They have customers. They still exist. Their pricing is just fine for them and their customers.

People who stand on the side and lob grenades about how something is overpriced crap with no value are missing the point at best and at worst are actually just materializing some sort of weird internal jealously or other feeling of deficiency. It's not just in cycling but with everything. So many people are so concerned with how others spend their money.

I've been just as guilty. I know I used to come out (at least 15 years ago) here and complain about how expensive Chris King stuff was and how over priced it was for what little value I believed it represented. "Now" (for over a decade) I'm a dealer. I certainly feel there are things they do that have higher value than others. There are things I think they simply add a sort of boutique tax on to as well. Even if there are plenty of us who feel the same way about it just doesn't really matter unless someone looking to buy has asked for our opinion. Sitting here after the fact and making fun of someone who decided to spend the money because we, using our current system of value, don't see the benefit is really the pastime of the have nots with chips on our shoulders.

Psimet2001 

I'll directly disagree. It always has to do with value perception. I can think of many times I have watched extremely wealthy individuals make buying decisions based on their value with other aspects of the transaction. Price is meaningless without context and your determination that someone is a fool simply based on price displays your lack of understanding of that.

Like I keep repeating - there's something about the transaction you're missing.

Kapusta

OK, sure. There are no foolish purchasing decisions.