Kabuki12

My observation is that when the handicap accessible curbs came into play , it made it easy for bicycles to ride on the sidewalks . There are times I understand but probably should walk the bike if there are pedestrians present. I don't even ride on MUP's! I am almost always a side of the road guy so yea ...dangerous. There ain't no easy answer , just use your head.

wolfchild

Never take advice from a vehicular cyclist because their dogmatic ideology will either get you killed or seriously injured and never ever argue and debate with them on how to ride...Just do your own thing and do whatever it takes to make your ride safe.

PGHNeil

The city I live outside of has bike lanes. Some are shared with traffic, some are shared with sidewalks but they are always marked. It's my understanding that bikes are never to be ridden on sidewalks otherwise; they are vehicles.

homeless in ca.

492.1. A cyclist may not ride a bicycle on a sidewalk except in case of necessity or where directed or allowed to do so by a sign or signal. In such a case, the cyclist must ride at a safe, reasonable speed and give pedestrians the priority.
-Quebec highway code

livedarklions

I disagree with that characterization about it, the rights/privileges are different, superior in some instances, inferior in others. If you don't believe me, try riding your bicycle on a restricted interstate.

You are claiming an inherent right of bicyclists to operate in a manner that prevents drivers from passing them in what would otherwise be a legal and safe manner for the sole reason of keeping a peloton-like grouping intact. That's not a privilege that any other type of operator enjoys without also having a huge amount of responsibility for flagmen, *******, etc. Just consider all of the precautions that must be taken for parades and funeral processions, and those are generally quite slow moving.

BTW, when I was a kid in Minneapolis, the police could confiscate an unlicensed bicycle. It's not a constitutional right, it's that enforcing licensing is impractical. They would actually set up roadblocks and stop cyclists to check their bikes. The scheme fell apart because you could see the roadblocks from several blocks away. And MPD always had the reputation of treating people they stopped badly so everyone would turn before getting there, licensed or not.

LarrySellerz

A peloton is pretty much a slow moving vehicle like an overladen truck or something and should be treated as such. The pelotons have caused friction with the communities they go through, and even with the larger cycling community, but they are allowed to continue running unhampered by the police. If someone doesn’t like it they can take it up with the local police department, they won’t be the first or the last, but the pelotons will never be banned. They are legal.

genejockey 

I drove my car on the same road I ride on yesterday. Took up the entire traffic lane so that nobody could pass me without going completely into the opposing lane. All by myself. All cars do that all the time.

Inusuit

There are a couple of areas in my regular routes where I ride the sidewalk for short distances where there is no shoulder at the intersection. Can't ever remember seeing a pedestrian on those sidewalks. Yeah, I know, take the lane but I feel safer with my decision as it gives me time and space to assess the traffic situation.

wolfchild

Just because there is no law against peloton or large groups of cyclists hogging the road and impeding traffic doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do....Doing unsanctioned races on public roads or MUPS is pure selfishness and foolishness.

livedarklions

8

News flash: cars aren't subject to frap laws. Like I said, there's different rights, privileges and obligations imposed on the different operators.

Now let's see you take a group of 50 cars driving 30 mph slower than the speed limit and taking up both right lanes of a 4 lane road to prevent passing.

genejockey 

So close.

livedarklions

See my ETA. We crossed

genejockey 

The thing is, a peloton of 50 riders takes up about as much space on the road as a couple cars. 50 vehicle operators vs 2 or 3. But you're advocating that those 2 or 3 take precedence over the 50.

livedarklions

I'm advocating that you organize your recreational rides in a manner that doesn't impede other people's use of the road. These giant groups aren't fun for the pedestrians either, not to mention emergency vehicles. I also think your space calculations are absurd, and 50 operators are 47 more people to make coordination mistakes than 3.

genejockey 

To be fair, my recreational rides consist of me.

But I'd note that large group rides like the one I'm thinking of, the one Larry Sellerz mentions a lot, happen once a week, on a Saturday morning. It causes some disruption as it passes, but once it has passed it leaves little or no disruption in its wake. It's not like there are 50 bike pelotons rolling down all the roads all the time - it's an occasional thing, limited to a time of limited other traffic, especially along the roads they take. Yes, they can be jerks. But lots of drivers are jerks, too.

Are my space considerations absurd? Well, generally the recommendation for spacing between motor vehicles is a car-length per 10mph. So, 3 cars at 30 MPH = 12 car lengths, roughly 180 feet [3 x (3 car lengths + 1 car), assuming a car length of 15 feet] Think a 50 rider peloton taking the width of the lane takes up more space than that? That's 60 yards!

WhyFi

Implication being that these rides are of lesser importance than the usage by others (primarily auto)?

genejockey 

The other thing? Where that ride goes - where MOST group rides on the Peninsula go - the speed limit is 35, and most of the large group rides run in the 20-30 mph range, once they get to the "peloton" stage (some start as a double paceline). There's one section where the limit is 50 mph for about 6 miles, but literally nobody lives along that section, there are no crossroads or stop signs for that entire distance, and there's a parallel freeway about half a mile away.

genejockey 

This is what I think the point is - a lot of us cyclists internalize the idea that our use of the roads is of lesser importance than motor vehicles. But a cyclist may be going to work, while a driver might just be going for a joy ride. Outside of emergency vehicles and a few others (school buses spring to mind), we don't legally prioritize people's use of the roads. We don't demand that people going out for ice cream yield to people going to work, for example. So, the idea that we should always defer to motor vehicles assumes that whatever they're doing is more important than whatever we're doing.

wolfchild

For large majority it's the other way around.

LarrySellerz

In addition to spectrum, the noon ride happens 5 days a week. The morning ride happens twice a week. Then there is the Egan ride and the Valley ride, not to mention the penvelo sat/sunday rides and soon the tuesday/thursday evening rides should start up again. So thats 14 pelotons going through Portola. (well egan is in los altos but its still close so I count it.) Some of those rides are only like 30 riders but they might get bigger as people become less afraid of covid.

genejockey 

The point is, THAT DOESN'T MATTER. If you think it does, you're part of the problem.

genejockey 

The Spectrum ride is the only one of its size, though. I mean, the ones I've seen had about 50 people IN FEBURARY!

LarrySellerz

Noon rides Tuesday’s/thursdays is close to as big and Egan is probably bigger (more than 100 riders sometimes, it’s a club ride that regroups)

genejockey 

That's funny, because Alto Velo says the Egan ride gets about 33 riders a week. I suspect you are prone to overestimation, like thinking people take that hairpin at 40 mph, or some guy was spinning at 200 rpm for a whole ride.

LarrySellerz

that’s dated, it’s exploded. I’ll take a video next time I go out to it