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Gravel destination showdown - Europe

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Gravel destination showdown - Europe

Old 05-14-22, 09:53 AM
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Gravel destination showdown - Europe

I'm planning a trip to Europe this fall (late September) with my wife to do some gravel and road riding, and am looking for feedback on some of the destinations we have in mind.


We're looking for more leisurely rides - mostly in the 50k range with 1000m or less ascending. We probably won't have quite as ambitious of goals as Mont Ventoux or Rocacorba, for example. Still, we're strong riders and don't mind a bit of challenge. We only have 8 nights so are looking to base in a town where there are many riding options without having to get in a car or train. Mild weather, rolling landscapes, villages, quiet roads, dreamy gravel. Need plenty to keep us entertained for a week in our base town and surrounding areas, with lots to do off the bike as well.


My "finalists" are:

-Girona/Costa Brava

-Algarve

-Provence

-Loire Valley

-Tuscany


I know that Girona is the rage right now, and we had to cancel a trip there at the start of the pandemic so that's my leading contender. However, if anyone has been to multiple of these places to ride and can comment mostly on the quality and diversity of the riding, or to help compare/contrast these options it would be helpful - length of rides, abundance of options, quality of roads and gravel, traffic, etc.
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Old 05-15-22, 11:15 AM
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Depending if you like/can bag packing, I would look a Bordeaux (UNESCO heritage) to Narbonne along “canal du midi” via Toulouse.

i used to ride on the canal around castelnaudary and it was hot in july… I remember seing the foreign legion in full gear doing some training…

I ll do it with the kids when they can do more than 20k.



https://en.francevelotourisme.com/cy...iterranean-sea
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Old 05-16-22, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Fentuz
Depending if you like/can bag packing, I would look a Bordeaux (UNESCO heritage) to Narbonne along “canal du midi” via Toulouse.

i used to ride on the canal around castelnaudary and it was hot in july… I remember seing the foreign legion in full gear doing some training…

I ll do it with the kids when they can do more than 20k.



https://en.francevelotourisme.com/cy...iterranean-sea
Fentuz, thanks for the reply - that looks like our speed for sure! We definitely have the capacity to carry what we need for a few day credit card tour. This plan would also allow us to see and stay in many different villages along the way. Would our bikes and gear be welcomed on the local trains so we could tour one-way and return to our point of origin?
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Old 05-16-22, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethetown
Fentuz, thanks for the reply - that looks like our speed for sure! We definitely have the capacity to carry what we need for a few day credit card tour. This plan would also allow us to see and stay in many different villages along the way. Would our bikes and gear be welcomed on the local trains so we could tour one-way and return to our point of origin?
unfortunately, the SNCF will only let you take a folding bike in a bag/luguage on a standard train. For regular bike, you need to book a ticket on a train with a bike coach. As you get to the train, you have take the bike to “wagon velo”, load it and then go to your seat in another wagon and do the opposite when you get to your destination.

it is do able as long as you are aware and plan for it. May be easier to get it organized through a bike holiday specialist.

https://www.sncf.com/en/passenger-of.../bike-on-board
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Old 05-16-22, 04:11 PM
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I've spent a bit of time walking in the Apennines and would suggest that you might check out Liguria as a less touristy alternative to Tuscany. Might be too quiet for you off the bike.

The Algarve is basically one boring coastal touristy strip, but the hinterland is hilly and only a few kilometres inland is a different world, where few tourists dare to tread. The Atlantic coast of Portugal, south of Lisbon is also beautiful and relatively unspoilt.

If you want lots to do off the bike (but not trashy like the Algarve), then I'd suggest the Loire valley and stay in Saumur or Chinon. Saumur has plenty to offer in the evenings. The chateaus of the Loire Valley are superb, especially Chinon.

You'll find lots of the sort of easy-going off-road biking you describe, in all of these places.
.

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Old 05-16-22, 04:38 PM
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I'm coming here by chance and this is my first post. I'll introduce myself later.
As a French rider, I can give you some input on the French areas mentioned in your post.

The Loire Valley may be a flat especially if you follow the river. But you can reach it easily from Paris by train with your bike. Along the river you have many trains TER where you can travel with your bike.

Provence may fit your specifications better. In Provence there is an area called "Luberon" located East of the city "Avignon" which may be very nice with your program.

And the weather maybe nicer in the Southern part of France then in the Loire Valley.

There are many great places for riding in France and I would recommend to think also in terms of logistics:

Will you have your bike or do you want to rent one?
Will you come by plane to your final destination (if so it may not be necessary to book take the train)


If you want to check the topography, you can watch online free topographic maps on the website
geoportail dot gouv dot fr (I'm not allowed to post links...)


The "canal des deux mers" is nice (this is part of my summer 2022 trip). But if you follow the route mentioned above, the ride may lack of challenge for you @ridethetown
It will be pretty flat.

You will find more challenge if you leave the canal and reach the more hilly areas on each part of the plain of the canal, more particularly between Toulouse and the Mediterranean sea.

In this area, there is a nice touristic place called "pays cathare" around Carcassonne with nice medieval castles (ruins sometimes) on the top of hills. It's a good aim for a one day ride!

Be careful with the railway national company SNCF that claims facilitating transportation of bikes... Iike in the link above. The reality is a bit different.

But, if you take regional trainlines named "TER" you will have in every train free space for bikes. And you don't need to fold your bike. This is the most convenient way.

In trains where there is no specific space for bikes, mostly high speed train "TGV" then you will have to fold your bike. It means that you need to fold the handlebar, pedals, wheels of course and to store the bike in an appropriate bag (or big garbage bag held with scotch that wou can throw away after the train journey).

In general in France, you will find a good network of quiet roads and many tracks in the countryside.
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Old 05-20-22, 12:46 PM
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I did this Backroads trip through Tuscany and it was amazing... might be right up your alley. You can look at their website to get an idea of where to go:

https://www.backroads.com/trips/BTTQ...ly-biking-tour
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Old 05-23-22, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Fentuz
unfortunately, the SNCF will only let you take a folding bike in a bag/luguage on a standard train. For regular bike, you need to book a ticket on a train with a bike coach. As you get to the train, you have take the bike to “wagon velo”, load it and then go to your seat in another wagon and do the opposite when you get to your destination.

it is do able as long as you are aware and plan for it. May be easier to get it organized through a bike holiday specialist.

https://www.sncf.com/en/passenger-of.../bike-on-board
Good point. My brother and i stripped down our tandem and put it in the over head luggage racks (TVG) to get around that rule.

I have to admit, the stares we got taking the bike apart at the train statin made me wonder if someone was going to call the gendarmerie for suspicion of stripping down stolen bike for parts.
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Old 05-23-22, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by houppy
I'm coming here by chance and this is my first post. I'll introduce myself later.
As a French rider, I can give you some input on the French areas mentioned in your post.

Provence may fit your specifications better. In Provence there is an area called "Luberon" located East of the city "Avignon" which may be very nice with your program.

In general in France, you will find a good network of quiet roads and many tracks in the countryside.
My brother and I did that. Best bike trip of my life. The quiet roads, rolling country side, great weather, wonderful people (So many people exclaimed - look a tandem - and when they saw we were biking, they kept feeding us more and more of the best food (and riding ~60 to ~80+ miles a day, we were hungry), the summer markets (more food!). Lavender fields, fresh (or aged) cheese, sunflowers, wonderful architecture and history. Provence is a wonderful place to bike. Easy TGV access from Paris. the Luberon is just gorgeous and a wonderful place to bike.
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Old 05-23-22, 08:02 PM
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We have been heavily considering the Tuscany Trail or Tuscany Road route on the Bombtrack bikes website. That may be worth a look!
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Old 05-31-22, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Monkey Face
I've spent a bit of time walking in the Apennines and would suggest that you might check out Liguria as a less touristy alternative to Tuscany. Might be too quiet for you off the bike.


The Algarve is basically one boring coastal touristy strip, but the hinterland is hilly and only a few kilometres inland is a different world, where few tourists dare to tread. The Atlantic coast of Portugal, south of Lisbon is also beautiful and relatively unspoilt.


If you want lots to do off the bike (but not trashy like the Algarve), then I'd suggest the Loire valley and stay in Saumur or Chinon. Saumur has plenty to offer in the evenings. The chateaus of the Loire Valley are superb, especially Chinon.


You'll find lots of the sort of easy-going off-road biking you describe, in all of these places.

.

Great points, and thanks for the guidance. We'd definitely want to avoid large touristy resort areas along the cost and keep to the backroads and villages. Loire valley looks incredible and very accessible, being close to Paris. My current ambitions crave something with more varied riding, but if the fitness continues to lag by midsummer I think it could easily become our destination.


Originally Posted by houppy
I'm coming here by chance and this is my first post. I'll introduce myself later.

As a French rider, I can give you some input on the French areas mentioned in your post.


The Loire Valley may be a flat especially if you follow the river. But you can reach it easily from Paris by train with your bike. Along the river you have many trains TER where you can travel with your bike.


Provence may fit your specifications better. In Provence there is an area called "Luberon" located East of the city "Avignon" which may be very nice with your program.


And the weather maybe nicer in the Southern part of France then in the Loire Valley.


There are many great places for riding in France and I would recommend to think also in terms of logistics:


Will you have your bike or do you want to rent one?

Will you come by plane to your final destination (if so it may not be necessary to book take the train)



If you want to check the topography, you can watch online free topographic maps on the website

geoportail dot gouv dot fr (I'm not allowed to post links...)



The "canal des deux mers" is nice (this is part of my summer 2022 trip). But if you follow the route mentioned above, the ride may lack of challenge for you @ridethetown

It will be pretty flat.


You will find more challenge if you leave the canal and reach the more hilly areas on each part of the plain of the canal, more particularly between Toulouse and the Mediterranean sea.


In this area, there is a nice touristic place called "pays cathare" around Carcassonne with nice medieval castles (ruins sometimes) on the top of hills. It's a good aim for a one day ride!


Be careful with the railway national company SNCF that claims facilitating transportation of bikes... Iike in the link above. The reality is a bit different.


But, if you take regional trainlines named "TER" you will have in every train free space for bikes. And you don't need to fold your bike. This is the most convenient way.


In trains where there is no specific space for bikes, mostly high speed train "TGV" then you will have to fold your bike. It means that you need to fold the handlebar, pedals, wheels of course and to store the bike in an appropriate bag (or big garbage bag held with scotch that wou can throw away after the train journey).


In general in France, you will find a good network of quiet roads and many tracks in the countryside.

Thanks so much for the detailed post! We would be bringing our own gravel bikes (Specialized Diverge), flying from the US. We have sturdy but collapsible bike bags that work wonderfully for transport. Depending on our itinerary, we could bring frame, handlebar, and saddle bags for overnight trips. If we choose France, we'd probably fly in and out of Paris, or perhaps into Marseille and out of Paris. Luberon looks to provide about exactly the experience we're looking for. This region, along with the canals in Languedoc may be our current leading contenders. I especially like that we could link villages across a multi-day credit card tour, with a seeming abundance of easy to challenging options. In this case, I would hope to stay at a guest house that could hold our bags for a few days, and would of course be willing to pay to do so.


Originally Posted by Caliwild
I did this Backroads trip through Tuscany and it was amazing... might be right up your alley. You can look at their website to get an idea of where to go:


https://www.backroads.com/trips/BTTQ...ly-biking-tour

Girona and Siena are the other leading contenders for us, and reading that trip report makes a very strong case for Tuscany! Thank you for sharing this; I'm no closer to a decision than I was before posting, LOL.


Any votes for Spain? I mean, Google has seemingly crowned Girona the epicenter of the global road and gravel scene. If anyone has experience with the Girona - Costa Brava area, I'd love to hear about the variety of riding (road and gravel) and quality of off-bike interests compared to Southern France and Tuscany. I've seen more of Spain than France or Italy, but never been to Costa Brava (or Alicante, or Andalucia, for that matter).


Thanks again everyone, I appreciate all the feedback. It's fun to hear about your trips and get to learn more about all these places, regardless of which we next check off our list!
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Old 05-31-22, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethetown
Great points, and thanks for the guidance. We'd definitely want to avoid large touristy resort areas along the cost and keep to the backroads and villages. Loire valley looks incredible and very accessible, being close to Paris. My current ambitions crave something with more varied riding, but if the fitness continues to lag by midsummer I think it could easily become our destination.





Thanks so much for the detailed post! We would be bringing our own gravel bikes (Specialized Diverge), flying from the US. We have sturdy but collapsible bike bags that work wonderfully for transport. Depending on our itinerary, we could bring frame, handlebar, and saddle bags for overnight trips. If we choose France, we'd probably fly in and out of Paris, or perhaps into Marseille and out of Paris. Luberon looks to provide about exactly the experience we're looking for. This region, along with the canals in Languedoc may be our current leading contenders. I especially like that we could link villages across a multi-day credit card tour, with a seeming abundance of easy to challenging options. In this case, I would hope to stay at a guest house that could hold our bags for a few days, and would of course be willing to pay to do so.





Girona and Siena are the other leading contenders for us, and reading that trip report makes a very strong case for Tuscany! Thank you for sharing this; I'm no closer to a decision than I was before posting, LOL.


Any votes for Spain? I mean, Google has seemingly crowned Girona the epicenter of the global road and gravel scene. If anyone has experience with the Girona - Costa Brava area, I'd love to hear about the variety of riding (road and gravel) and quality of off-bike interests compared to Southern France and Tuscany. I've seen more of Spain than France or Italy, but never been to Costa Brava (or Alicante, or Andalucia, for that matter).


Thanks again everyone, I appreciate all the feedback. It's fun to hear about your trips and get to learn more about all these places, regardless of which we next check off our list!
For me Girona wins hands down. I also am spending more time on Gravel and the area around Girona has an extensive gravel road network. The cycling infrastructure in Girona is excellent, extensive and compact which is a major plus. No need for guides or other support it is all built-in and readily available. Next is the type of tourists who spend time in Girona are usually longer stay or ex-pat type thus a less transient visiter which gives it a community type feel. South of France is really nice however not as pleasant and varied as Girona. Lastly, Tuscany and the tourist areas of Italy are much too busy for my tastes, the drivers are no way as patient and supportive as in Spain. Close proximity to Germany, Austria and Switzerland brings a lot of motorcycles, luxury cars and aggressive driving to Italy which seriously detracts from the cycling. The Dolomites for example are amazing however the amount of traffic is frustrating. I have had repeated trips to all of the areas you mentioned and now Girona is my go-to for at least once a year. Costa Brava is great however some of the areas have a Fish & Chip Coast kind of feel so pick your towns carefully. The riding though is amazing with an extensive gravel and secondary road system and no shortage of routes.
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Old 06-01-22, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
For me Girona wins hands down. I also am spending more time on Gravel and the area around Girona has an extensive gravel road network. The cycling infrastructure in Girona is excellent, extensive and compact which is a major plus. No need for guides or other support it is all built-in and readily available. Next is the type of tourists who spend time in Girona are usually longer stay or ex-pat type thus a less transient visiter which gives it a community type feel. South of France is really nice however not as pleasant and varied as Girona. Lastly, Tuscany and the tourist areas of Italy are much too busy for my tastes, the drivers are no way as patient and supportive as in Spain. Close proximity to Germany, Austria and Switzerland brings a lot of motorcycles, luxury cars and aggressive driving to Italy which seriously detracts from the cycling. The Dolomites for example are amazing however the amount of traffic is frustrating. I have had repeated trips to all of the areas you mentioned and now Girona is my go-to for at least once a year. Costa Brava is great however some of the areas have a Fish & Chip Coast kind of feel so pick your towns carefully. The riding though is amazing with an extensive gravel and secondary road system and no shortage of routes.
Thanks for this outstanding description - I really appreciate you contrasting Spain, France and Italy from one another having experience with all of them. I'm also stoked to see such an emphatic vote for Girona.

A few more questions if you don't mind: Are there villages along Costa Brava that you'd specifically recommend avoiding? Or maybe the better question would be - are there specific villages in the area that must not be missed? What's your take on the Vias Verdes? I've heard that some of the greenways are better than others, in that some are loose rocky, and bypass towns, where others are smooth and fast, leading to great destinations. Would an overnighter to Olot or the coast be a good trip using the greenways? Finally, outside of the riding (i.e., for sightseeing, food, wine, nightlife), which is your favorite?

Thanks again!
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Old 06-01-22, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethetown
Thanks for this outstanding description - I really appreciate you contrasting Spain, France and Italy from one another having experience with all of them. I'm also stoked to see such an emphatic vote for Girona.

A few more questions if you don't mind: Are there villages along Costa Brava that you'd specifically recommend avoiding? Or maybe the better question would be - are there specific villages in the area that must not be missed? What's your take on the Vias Verdes? I've heard that some of the greenways are better than others, in that some are loose rocky, and bypass towns, where others are smooth and fast, leading to great destinations. Would an overnighter to Olot or the coast be a good trip using the greenways? Finally, outside of the riding (i.e., for sightseeing, food, wine, nightlife), which is your favorite?

Thanks again!
To answer your questions here is my take. I would fly into Barcelona and take the bus to Girona. There is a bus that regularly departs El Prat airport direct to Girona. I would rent an Airbnb for one week and get settled, stay in the old town for the ambiance and easy access to services. Take in some of the many routes based from town. My approach to gravel is to connect between quiet secondary roads as traffic is minimal and drivers are incredibly respectful. Orlot is a great day trip or spend a night however it is the other direction from the Costa Brava. Ride from Girona to Tamriu on the Costa Brava and spend a few days there for day rides and perhaps a coastal hike. Tamriu to Caldes de Malavella mostly gravel paths and incredibly quiet roads. Then continue from there around the general area of Girona finishing in Girona and shuttling back to Barcelona.
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Old 06-12-22, 05:32 PM
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I've decided that our destination will be Girona! We had planned this trip in 2020 and of course had to cancel, so it's great to have this one back on the books.

AtlasShrugged or anyone else - do you know if there are any luggage transport services that could transport our bags from Girona to our next destination while we ride there? We could easily carry 2-3 days worth of clothes on our bikes, but it could open up more options if we could have our bags shuttled for us. Likewise, if there are recommendations for taxis or bike shuttles that will take us with our bikes, that would be helpful.

Thanks again!
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Old 06-12-22, 10:38 PM
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On the off chance that Girona doesn't work out - or for any others who might be considering cycling - road, gravel in some beautiful countryside - I'll suggest
Franconia/Franken in Germany. Franconia/Franken is a region in Northern Bavaria - historically part of the Frankish Empire (Charlemagne & those folk...?) with many towns still in the Medieval architecture dating as far back as the 1200s.
Thousands of Km of country lanes, gravel and dirt roads thru countryside, numerous and deep forest and roman ruins. Some impact from tourists in towns like Rothenburg and my home /birth town Dinkelsbuhl. But mostly quiet, with small villages, farms, and quiet ,light industry. Exceptional cuisine, a great variety of lodging from quite high level to 'Youth Hostel', all with 1st world services and extrememly friendly native population.
You could ride in any compass direction and never ride the same route, for an entire year. Short Bimble or Long Day with a few hundred Km, hills and rolling, but no mountains. Temps in the 70's and low 80's at the most.
September is the best month in Germany, still long and mostly clear days, quiet because the European Vacations days are past. Most residents in the area are conversant English speakers.
Always a good variety of culture and nightlife for all tastes.
Here are 4 pics to sample just a touch of what is available. Also Check images from Germany_Chris, in the gravel ride pics thread. He currently lives in the area...
And here's a URL for some general info to this area - not comprehensive but an OK start for an impression.
https://www.germany.travel/en/nature...cle-route.html

Dinkelsbuhl - from the Segringer Tor

Country Lane in Franconia

Franconian landscape - from the HesselBerg

Rothenburger Tor and Weiher in the evening

Been thinking to start a Bike Touring/Riding business out of my Family Home in Dinkelsbuhl... would be awesome!
If anyone wishes more info, I'm happy to start you in a good direction. There are very good Cycling Maps for the entire region.
In any case, this area is exceptional as a cycling destination, with more possibilities than one could explore in months of trying.
Ride On
Yuri
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Old 06-13-22, 01:53 AM
  #17  
Germany_chris
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Originally Posted by cyclezen
On the off chance that Girona doesn't work out - or for any others who might be considering cycling - road, gravel in some beautiful countryside - I'll suggest
Franconia/Franken in Germany. Franconia/Franken is a region in Northern Bavaria - historically part of the Frankish Empire (Charlemagne & those folk...?) with many towns still in the Medieval architecture dating as far back as the 1200s.
Thousands of Km of country lanes, gravel and dirt roads thru countryside, numerous and deep forest and roman ruins. Some impact from tourists in towns like Rothenburg and my home /birth town Dinkelsbuhl. But mostly quiet, with small villages, farms, and quiet ,light industry. Exceptional cuisine, a great variety of lodging from quite high level to 'Youth Hostel', all with 1st world services and extrememly friendly native population.
You could ride in any compass direction and never ride the same route, for an entire year. Short Bimble or Long Day with a few hundred Km, hills and rolling, but no mountains. Temps in the 70's and low 80's at the most.
September is the best month in Germany, still long and mostly clear days, quiet because the European Vacations days are past. Most residents in the area are conversant English speakers.
Always a good variety of culture and nightlife for all tastes.
Here are 4 pics to sample just a touch of what is available. Also Check images from Germany_Chris, in the gravel ride pics thread. He currently lives in the area...
And here's a URL for some general info to this area - not comprehensive but an OK start for an impression.
https://www.germany.travel/en/nature...cle-route.html

Dinkelsbuhl - from the Segringer Tor

Country Lane in Franconia

Franconian landscape - from the HesselBerg

Rothenburger Tor and Weiher in the evening

Been thinking to start a Bike Touring/Riding business out of my Family Home in Dinkelsbuhl... would be awesome!
If anyone wishes more info, I'm happy to start you in a good direction. There are very good Cycling Maps for the entire region.
In any case, this area is exceptional as a cycling destination, with more possibilities than one could explore in months of trying.
Ride On
Yuri

Why did you have to bring up Franken, I’d like to keep my gravel for the most part solitary
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Old 06-13-22, 08:50 AM
  #18  
cyclezen
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris
Why did you have to bring up Franken, I’d like to keep my gravel for the most part solitary
LOL! Well it's not OUR gravel,
We have an embarrassment of riches, and a region long quiet from hustle and bustle. There are way too many riding options in our area for any small increase in cyclists to have any impact - other than experience some of the best riding in all of Europe.
The riding infrastructure is there, and using it a bit more will emphasize to the local administrations, that cycle tourists are a wonderful way to build a good culture.
When 'home', I've taken foreigners on some rides which have blown them away...
I'm not concerned about 'over-use' - on the contrary, there are so many Gasthaus, spread around, and we need to make sure they all prosper... (LOL! not really a problem, Franks and Germans in general LOVE to go out...). And there's hardly a weekend when you won;t stumble into a Kirchweih, on a ride.
Rädl weiter
Yuri

Last edited by cyclezen; 06-13-22 at 10:08 AM.
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