Why aren't Cat 4 field limits smaller?
03-09-12, 03:06 PM
#126
out walking the earth
father's day weekend is the whiteface hill climb and it's a quality of life decision for me to do that and spend time with my family in our north country home.
03-09-12, 03:13 PM
#127
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03-09-12, 03:21 PM
#129
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I believe it has been saved .... for now.
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03-09-12, 03:23 PM
#130
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Meh, oh well. I loved that race when they ran separate categories, but in an open field with that much climbing it's just a training ride for me anyways. The course one of my favorites though.
A few years ago my friend got dropped early, took a wrong turn, cut like 5 miles off the course and had a hell of a time convincing them to take away second place from her after she spent the whole race OTB.
Edit: Great, looks like they added the women's 4 field back this year. A 1-3 field doesn't help me at this point.
A few years ago my friend got dropped early, took a wrong turn, cut like 5 miles off the course and had a hell of a time convincing them to take away second place from her after she spent the whole race OTB.
Edit: Great, looks like they added the women's 4 field back this year. A 1-3 field doesn't help me at this point.
03-09-12, 03:29 PM
#131
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my 2nd (cat 5) race this Sunday has 51 people register.... Last Sundays race had a big crash. I believe 5 went down 3 were taking to hospital.
Everybody I talked to about the NYC Spring Series said nothing but bad things about the race.
Everybody I talked to about the NYC Spring Series said nothing but bad things about the race.
03-09-12, 03:44 PM
#132
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I'm still credited for 6th place at Jiminy Peak. All I did was chase down the early moves, get my guy to the front for the hill, and sit up. Then I drove home. They mailed me a nice mug and check which I promptly mailed back. The rest of the season guys were coming up to me. "Wow you were strong at Jiminy Peak".
03-09-12, 03:46 PM
#134
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I'm still credited for 6th place at Jiminy Peak. All I did was chase down the early moves, get my guy to the front for the hill, and sit up. Then I drove home. They mailed me a nice mug and check which I promptly mailed back. The rest of the season guys were coming up to me. "Wow you were strong at Jiminy Peak".
Oh yeah, I got some good prize money two years ago at Housatonic when they accidentally handed me the envelope for the same place/cat from the men's race. Some dude was probably bummed that day. Oops. Also promptly mailed back.
03-09-12, 04:11 PM
#135
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"Category 4 to 3: 20 points in any 12-month period; or experience in 25 races with a minimum of 10 top-10 finishes with fields of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade."
Aha! just start 25 times and finish with the pack 20 times, no matter how large the pack or where in the pack you are.
Aha! just start 25 times and finish with the pack 20 times, no matter how large the pack or where in the pack you are.
03-09-12, 06:24 PM
#137
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" For category 1 upgrades, only 10 of the points may
be earned in races that are part of a training series or may be
earned in master‟s races"
03-09-12, 08:01 PM
#138
Senior Member
I think that a Masters race will help with Cat 4 upgrades, especially when results are broken up by category. Based on my experiences with the Masters I'd say anyone that can race Masters should be a Cat 3 minimum.
03-09-12, 09:58 PM
#139
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Crapweasel is correct. All masters points count for upgrades until you get to Cat2.
03-09-12, 11:17 PM
#140
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So as OP, in the words of Roseann Roseannadanna, "Never mind!"
03-10-12, 05:50 AM
#141
out walking the earth
is that a newer thing? when I upgraded (we don't want to discuss where I was ranked as a three) my rep said "that while I had enough cat 3 points to upgrade I didn't 'have to' and my masters points didn't count.
03-10-12, 06:33 AM
#142
Making a kilometer blurry
Yeah, it's probably worth a conversation with the local upgrade rep wherever a given Cat 3 is located. When I upgraded, I counted one masters win among my points, and that was needed for the upgrade. I just had to provide a count of the riders who were Cat 3 or above in the race, and use the tables as normal with that count as the field size.
03-10-12, 06:42 AM
#143
out walking the earth
if they counted my masters points I was a world class sandbagger as a three. that's kinda cool to think about.
03-10-12, 06:51 AM
#144
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For me, effectively, I've only seen it in the last two years, based on results I see posted for Bethel. They break down the P123 and Women's races by category, so you might be 10th but the first Cat 3. Or whatever.
Which reminds me, I have to send in the csv file for the Ronde.
03-10-12, 07:14 AM
#145
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I took the question as "Do Masters points count?". The answer is yes. How many you get depends on the category of those who finished in front of you.
03-10-12, 02:22 PM
#146
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Thanks for the info, I was under the impression that masters was masters, and points only came from cat races. Not like masters is any easier or that I'm going to be getting points in either one...
03-12-12, 08:49 PM
#148
Genetics have failed me
+1 to technical courses being safer. The most dangerous races I have been in are: 1 - a 30+ 4/5 race at a auto racetrack. Wide lanes with no real corners - all sweeping. Carnage. The final sprint was like something out of a war movie.
....and my all time least favorite - meaning most dangerous crit I was ever in - Masters 30+ 4/5 (see a trend here) at Sherman Park in Chicago. Last year. It's a large sweeping oval course that is flat as a pancake. Designed as a sort of outside velodrome/bike race park back in Chicago's early years it simply has no corners. That course is so un-selective that I am able to race it with an extra 20-40 pounds of weight and still stay in the top 10-15 racers the whole race....simply because I can move around in a pack. There were so many wrecks in that race - all throughout the race - that I just became shell-shocked. At one point the guy riding second wheel just pinwheeled out and went down for no reason. There was no where safe in that race.
So...what does this mean for field size? These were 4/5 mixed fields - meaning that the field limits were 75 racers. I have been in safer races with over 100 racers. The course has more to do with safety than the field size does....
....and my all time least favorite - meaning most dangerous crit I was ever in - Masters 30+ 4/5 (see a trend here) at Sherman Park in Chicago. Last year. It's a large sweeping oval course that is flat as a pancake. Designed as a sort of outside velodrome/bike race park back in Chicago's early years it simply has no corners. That course is so un-selective that I am able to race it with an extra 20-40 pounds of weight and still stay in the top 10-15 racers the whole race....simply because I can move around in a pack. There were so many wrecks in that race - all throughout the race - that I just became shell-shocked. At one point the guy riding second wheel just pinwheeled out and went down for no reason. There was no where safe in that race.
So...what does this mean for field size? These were 4/5 mixed fields - meaning that the field limits were 75 racers. I have been in safer races with over 100 racers. The course has more to do with safety than the field size does....
I've felt very safe at the Autobahn crit and have seen my fair share of people going down in tight, technical corners just because they had pedal strikes and other dumb stuff that could have been avoided. For example, the Cobb Park crit had some good technical corners but there were like 4 crashes in the 4's race and I almost went down after a dude tried to cut through the inside when I was already hugging the inside border of the turn.
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03-13-12, 08:06 AM
#149
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Local guy here was surprised that he was automatically upgraded from 4 to 3. I guess someone finally noticed he's won about 100 masters races over the years ....
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03-19-12, 02:48 PM
#150
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I have been very vocal and critical about the size of the Cat 4 fields, especially technical crits such as Dana Point where they allow 150 cat 4s.
Last edited by gsteinb; 03-19-12 at 02:56 PM. Reason: edited