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Old 09-06-18, 05:08 PM
  #5126  
Baby Puke
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Ok, I'm curious: Why does anyone need a chainring bigger than 60t?
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Old 09-06-18, 07:23 PM
  #5127  
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there is some non-trivial friction gain from a big/big combo for your preferred gear ratio. It's likely more pronounced when you get into very big combos.
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Old 09-06-18, 10:59 PM
  #5128  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Ok, I'm curious: Why does anyone need a chainring bigger than 60t?
To avoid using a 12 when trying to go huge on gearing.
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Old 09-06-18, 11:15 PM
  #5129  
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60x13 is 125", surely that's big enough for just about anybody in a race situation? And using a 12 is for training, obviously, even I have one. The sizes of rings people are running are just getting crazy, it's looking like a dick size competition. Not to mention the price- at my frequent local supplier, a 53t Zen chainring (biggest in my pouch) is •19,800. That's already spendy in my book. A 63t is •51,300! Who is paying that for chainring???
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Old 09-07-18, 10:01 AM
  #5130  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Ok, I'm curious: Why does anyone need a chainring bigger than 60t?
My coach has me doing massive gear work and I've gotten to the point where I can get on top of 60x12, so we're trying to go bigger, but I can't afford those 9/10t hubs because they cost over $500, whereas a big chainring is $50-120 (used). Also for kilo riders, getting a bigger chainring upfront means you don't have to use a 12/13t cog which gives a marginal increase in efficiency.

Definitely not an ego/dick measuring thing here, I just can't spin up small gears and the gym routine he had prescribed hasn't been giving the results we had hoped for. Got loads stronger in my lifts but it didn't translate onto the bike, so he's having me do more on the bike stuff now.
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Old 09-07-18, 10:04 AM
  #5131  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
60x13 is 125", surely that's big enough for just about anybody in a race situation? And using a 12 is for training, obviously, even I have one. The sizes of rings people are running are just getting crazy, it's looking like a dick size competition. Not to mention the price- at my frequent local supplier, a 53t Zen chainring (biggest in my pouch) is •19,800. That's already spendy in my book. A 63t is •51,300! Who is paying that for chainring???
One of my friends is doing his f200 qualifiers on 130" (but he's a freak of nature) and Nicholas Paul just rode a mammoth gear to a near WR time in the f200 at Aguascalientes - the footage I saw wasn't great but my rough calculation was 137"-ish. Pursuiters are also putting bigger rings on to accommodate larger cogs, so I think it's a mixture between the top guys beasting the gym harder and also looking for those marginal gains in efficiency.
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Old 09-07-18, 01:32 PM
  #5132  
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This is why I think that the F200 is diverging from being simply a seeding tool for the match sprint tournament into its own time trial event with medals.

I find it hard to believe that a rider will use the same 130" gear (for example) in the sprint rounds.

There are two scenerios that I think would be cool:

1: Make the Flying 200M it's own medal event.

This would be very popular. There are many people who would simply like to ride F200s and not ride a sprint tournament.

Maybe have the riders ride 3 F200s during an event with one ride being dropped and the average of the 2 fastest times be used to declare the winner.

This will allow for more experimentation in gearing, windups, lines etc...and you'll see more world records.

There are other sports that use a similar format.

2: Add a rule that the gear used for qualifications also be used in the 1st round of the tournament.

This wouldn't be as popular, but it has the benefit of keeping the strategy component of gear selections. Imagine how rider 1 with a 96" gear would race rider 2 in a 130" gear in the first round of a tournament. You would see a lot of "herding" instead of just drag races.

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Old 09-07-18, 04:46 PM
  #5133  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post

a) This is why I think that the F200 is diverging from being simply a seeding tool for the match sprint tournament into its own time trial event with medals.

2: Add a rule that the gear used for qualifications also be used in the 1st round of the tournament.

This wouldn't be as popular, but it has the benefit of keeping the strategy component of gear selections. Imagine how rider 1 with a 96" gear would race rider 2 in a 130" gear in the first round of a tournament. You would see a lot of "herding" instead of just drag races.
a) Agree...
2: Like the criteria...

Back to track last year and still trying to find myself on this F200 selection criteria - studying it and to get a fast time I have to use bigger gears than usual, and train to 400-500m high wattage efforts...1m watts similar to Kilo, lower peak, lower revs than expected etc.
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Old 09-07-18, 06:42 PM
  #5134  
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Or 3: A combination of the 2.

- Let the F200 be itís own event...or just make the Flying Lap a medal event.
- Donít use F200 to seed sprint tournaments. Use lots with double elimination. Or round-robin until the semis
then single elimination.

The margins for F200 qualifying and not qualifying are getting smaller every year. The F200 is becoming more important than the sprint tournament. Notice how there is 100x more forum chatter about F200s than sprint tactics or sprint round results.
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Old 09-07-18, 06:49 PM
  #5135  
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On that last note, think about how often you actually see people practicing flying 200s vs how many you see practicing match sprint tactics (razor, herding, pinning, sweeping, kilo-ing, over-the-shoulder drills, etc...).
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Old 09-07-18, 06:55 PM
  #5136  
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In modern times, using the flying 200 to seed a match sprint tournament is like using a Merckx style 4K Individual Pursuit as a qualifier for the Points Race.
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Old 09-07-18, 07:30 PM
  #5137  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
In modern times, using the flying 200 to seed a match sprint tournament is like using a Merckx style 4K Individual Pursuit as a qualifier for the Points Race.
I disagree. Modern match sprinting is as xlose to doing an F200 as it has ever been.

It's gone from using the fastest times to seed a cat and mouse game, to seeding rolling start drag races. The two have never been more similar.

And as far as pursuing, you can be a mediocre pursuiter and still be a great points racer. The seedings for the F200 typically correlate pretty closely to the final results.
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Old 09-07-18, 10:43 PM
  #5138  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
A 63t is •51,300! Who is paying that for chainring???
Crazy stylemaster form over function types. There's a whole lot of options for big and big custom chainrings that don't even come close to those lofty spending heights!
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Old 09-08-18, 05:25 AM
  #5139  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
Following on from this question - should chainring bolts be set to a certain torque or just "hand tight"? I couldn't find any manufacturer recommendations for any crankset. I have Stronglite cranks at the moment which came with my Planet X but they didn't come with any documentation either.
I have SRM track cranks on both track bikes and torque the chainring bolts to 10 Nm as specified by SRM.
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Old 09-08-18, 06:38 AM
  #5140  
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Originally Posted by Dalai View Post
I have SRM track cranks on both track bikes and torque the chainring bolts to 10 Nm as specified by SRM.
What do you do changing gears at races? Take a torque wrench? None of the compact wrenches I'm aware of go above 6-8nm.
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Old 09-08-18, 06:49 AM
  #5141  
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I have an older version of the BBB TorqueFix BTL73 which has a range from 2-14 Nm in the gear bag.
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Old 09-08-18, 07:07 AM
  #5142  
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Ahh gotcha, a little bigger than I want to carry unless I'm taking my mechanic chest. Thanks
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Old 09-08-18, 04:35 PM
  #5143  
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It's not that big or heavy. I'm currently away skiing, but can take photos and measurements when I get home?
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Old 09-09-18, 05:49 PM
  #5144  
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I searched this site and others for track hub lubricants but failed to find info on this application. Looking for recommendations,
Thanks.
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Old 09-10-18, 04:36 AM
  #5145  
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Originally Posted by 700wheel View Post
I searched this site and others for track hub lubricants but failed to find info on this application. Looking for recommendations,
Thanks.
What are you looking for exactly?
When I'm working on other people's wheels / repacking then it comes down to what they want out of it. I use anything from marine grease (for wheels that are going to see a lot of the elements) to very expensive TT/Track specific low friction grease. In general you can use "faster" less resilient greases on bearings that are going to see track use because weather is usually not a concern. It's about as deep down the rabbit hole as you want to get when you start considering fill rates, bearing oil vs. grease, etc.

If you don't want to put a bunch of thought into it but want something above average, probably shimano premium grease is the way to go. It doesn't require any special application.

If you're looking to save every possible % of a watt... start digging. I've got some things I use/do for folks, but you have to be careful and have a fair understanding of what you're doing or you'll ruin the bearings or worse, slow the wheel down
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Old 09-10-18, 10:28 AM
  #5146  
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Hi all, I’m hoping I can borrow some of your experience for recommendations on bike position. There aren’t many riders in my club that ride track so can’t get much advice through my normal channels and my local bike fitter doesnt specialise in track at all.

Please see attached video snippets and images for an example of my current position. These are from a recent track series I took part in ( i am still very new to track).
My cadence is very high as the highest gear I had access to was 49/15 so that may affect things regarding my posture. I do tend to pull myself forward when pushing hard.

I think I can get flatter - I’m just not sure whether to go longer, lower or a bit of both. I would say that im more suited to Sprinting and its something I enjoy, but i would be looking to take part in enduro events too, its too early for me to specialise.

Currently riding a large Planet X.
geo is:

head angle 75*
head tube length 150mm
effective tip tube 580mm
seat angle 74*
seat tube length 580mm
stack 537mm
reach 427mm

im riding with Nitto b123 37cm centre to centre bars
100mm stem 6 degree drop.

any advice gratefully received.








Last edited by Kaben; 09-10-18 at 10:31 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 09-10-18, 12:44 PM
  #5147  
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Originally Posted by Morelock View Post
What are you looking for exactly?
When I'm working on other people's wheels / repacking then it comes down to what they want out of it. I use anything from marine grease (for wheels that are going to see a lot of the elements) to very expensive TT/Track specific low friction grease. In general you can use "faster" less resilient greases on bearings that are going to see track use because weather is usually not a concern. It's about as deep down the rabbit hole as you want to get when you start considering fill rates, bearing oil vs. grease, etc.

If you don't want to put a bunch of thought into it but want something above average, probably shimano premium grease is the way to go. It doesn't require any special application.

If you're looking to save every possible % of a watt... start digging. I've got some things I use/do for folks, but you have to be careful and have a fair understanding of what you're doing or you'll ruin the bearings or worse, slow the wheel down
I ride 500m and 2K TT events on my track bike. I've been using Park Tool Polylube 1000 grease for more than a decade. Time to re-lube my hubs and need to buy fresh supply of grease. Your suggestion of Shimano Premium grease would probably suit my needs (I never found grease on the Shimano web site). This grease, formerly named Dura-ace grease, is made in Germany.
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Old 09-10-18, 12:44 PM
  #5148  
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I don't think you need to go lower, but I think you can go substantially longer. Pick up a 120mm stem. Don't worry about the angle - a 6 or a 10-degree will be fine. . Try it pointed both up and down. And then think about picking up a 130mm stem, too, and trying that. But one step at a time.

Your position looks okay but I think your head is too much over your hands - i'd rather see a forward bend to your elbows and have your hands in front of your head.
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Old 09-10-18, 12:50 PM
  #5149  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
I don't think you need to go lower, but I think you can go substantially longer. Pick up a 120mm stem. Don't worry about the angle - a 6 or a 10-degree will be fine. . Try it pointed both up and down. And then think about picking up a 130mm stem, too, and trying that. But one step at a time.

Your position looks okay but I think your head is too much over your hands - i'd rather see a forward bend to your elbows and have your hands in front of your head.
Also maybe try bringing the bar up. Your arms are perfectly straight in almost every shot. Bent elbows are more aero.
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Old 09-10-18, 02:31 PM
  #5150  
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I agree with queerpunk and topflight pro. You look OK but compact. It's like a modern road riding fit.

I'd add that I'd like to see you with:

- 1 size longer top tube.
- 2cm longer stem
- Taking arms out instead of down to keep your back low for the reasons stated before me. Transform your arms from a "wall" to a "ramp" for the air to contact.

Adding a longer stem will work in the short term, but that will likely put your hands far past your front axle which may affect your handling.

If you have an hour and a few bucks, you can go to a decent bike shop and use their fitbike and have them put in your current bike's specs (from measuring your bike) then implement our suggestions and see how you look and feel. Take before and after pictures as well as see how it feels when you apply power and spin.
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