Does it bug anyone else - TdF and Merckx
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You may very well be right about this. However, IMO that doesn't meant that it wasn't deserved and one of those other riders was a teammate who was trying to lead Cavendish to the stage win anyway.
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Bull$#!+. 2nd place finisher was Morkov - Cav's leadout guy. He was cruising because his job was done. Philipsen (Alpecin) started his sprint from Cav's wheel and doesn't have the speed to get past him. Cortina (Movistar) started his sprint at 350M+ in an effort to spoil the DQS party, and was totally out of gas at the line. There are no sprinters left in the race who are at Cav's level, and he has the advantage of an excellent leadout team, savvy tactics, and the experience to know when to be patient. Cav stayed on Morkov's wheel, even when getting swamped by other riders going around him early, showing full faith that Morkov would deliver him to the right place at the right time, and he did. They aren't gifting him anything. They simply can't compete.
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Another achievement Eddy Merckx achieved was arriving in Paris as the holder of all three jerseys. (It would have been four but the Tour did not have the young rider's jersey yet.)
To Cavendish's credit, I haven't heard him say once that he was anywhere near Merckx' equal. Instead, he credited a woman who had just won her 30th Donne Giro stage as greatest of all time, pointing out that she also won world championships in 3 disciplines (road, track and cyclocross) plus Olympic golds in two.
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Bull$#!+. 2nd place finisher was Morkov - Cav's leadout guy. He was cruising because his job was done. Philipsen (Alpecin) started his sprint from Cav's wheel and doesn't have the speed to get past him. Cortina (Movistar) started his sprint at 350M+ in an effort to spoil the DQS party, and was totally out of gas at the line. There are no sprinters left in the race who are at Cav's level, and he has the advantage of an excellent leadout team, savvy tactics, and the experience to know when to be patient. Cav stayed on Morkov's wheel, even when getting swamped by other riders going around him early, showing full faith that Morkov would deliver him to the right place at the right time, and he did. They aren't gifting him anything. They simply can't compete.
Not taking away what CAV has done this TDF but I'm just stating what I saw.
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Just a different take...if anything Cavendish's record is special in an individual way different from Merckx. The specialization in the sport (climbers, sprinters, time trial specialists, overall competers), has made it difficult to dominate a particular aspect of the Tour...you have 20 riders who train especially for the sprint, 20 for the mountains, 20 for the long flat stages to protect the team leader (domestiques), and the competers...that makes Cavendish's sprint win record pretty impressive.
It should NOT be compared with Merckx overall greatness...they are different things, and special in their own rights.
It should NOT be compared with Merckx overall greatness...they are different things, and special in their own rights.
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The same question was asked frequently when Mark Renshaw was Cav's final leadout guy. Morkov might be capable of winning, but that's not his job, and don't be so sure. He's a professional with a specific task, and he is doing it excellently. That's the kind of work that keeps you getting picked by your DS for the big races, and keeps your contact getting renewed. Go rogue to steal a win from the designated sprinter on a hot streak, and you quickly find yourself looking for employment, probably with a pay cut. That said, if Cav wasn't delivering, the game would need to change. The other complication is that there is a skillset to being a sprinter. It's not just about being able to go fast. A fast finisher might be able to steal a couple of wins by surprise on occasion, but it's a totally different game when everyone is focused on trying to beat you, and you can still win.
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You said you saw the other riders "let up" before the finish, and suspect that they did it with intent to give Cav the win. If that's your conclusion, you aren't really paying attention to what was actually happening at the finish, and why it happened the way it did.
The same question was asked frequently when Mark Renshaw was Cav's final leadout guy. Morkov might be capable of winning, but that's not his job, and don't be so sure. He's a professional with a specific task, and he is doing it excellently. That's the kind of work that keeps you getting picked by your DS for the big races, and keeps your contact getting renewed. Go rogue to steal a win from the designated sprinter on a hot streak, and you quickly find yourself looking for employment, probably with a pay cut. That said, if Cav wasn't delivering, the game would need to change. The other complication is that there is a skillset to being a sprinter. It's not just about being able to go fast. A fast finisher might be able to steal a couple of wins by surprise on occasion, but it's a totally different game when everyone is focused on trying to beat you, and you can still win.
The same question was asked frequently when Mark Renshaw was Cav's final leadout guy. Morkov might be capable of winning, but that's not his job, and don't be so sure. He's a professional with a specific task, and he is doing it excellently. That's the kind of work that keeps you getting picked by your DS for the big races, and keeps your contact getting renewed. Go rogue to steal a win from the designated sprinter on a hot streak, and you quickly find yourself looking for employment, probably with a pay cut. That said, if Cav wasn't delivering, the game would need to change. The other complication is that there is a skillset to being a sprinter. It's not just about being able to go fast. A fast finisher might be able to steal a couple of wins by surprise on occasion, but it's a totally different game when everyone is focused on trying to beat you, and you can still win.
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Philipsen to his team DS: "Well, I sandbagged the sprint to let Cav win again, as you ordered me to. Explain again why you had me do that?"
Team DS: "But it's obvious! Now, when I talk to the sponsors who spent millions of Euros to field a professional team capable of winning sprint stages at the world's most prestigious cycling event, I'll be able to tell them that the half-dozen or so novice Tour watchers who correctly interpret your actions as a sentimental gesture in support of another team's sprinter will admire us, for at least the rest of the day."
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The same question was asked frequently when Mark Renshaw was Cav's final leadout guy. Morkov might be capable of winning, but that's not his job, and don't be so sure. He's a professional with a specific task, and he is doing it excellently. That's the kind of work that keeps you getting picked by your DS for the big races, and keeps your contact getting renewed. Go rogue to steal a win from the designated sprinter on a hot streak, and you quickly find yourself looking for employment, probably with a pay cut. That said, if Cav wasn't delivering, the game would need to change. The other complication is that there is a skillset to being a sprinter. It's not just about being able to go fast. A fast finisher might be able to steal a couple of wins by surprise on occasion, but it's a totally different game when everyone is focused on trying to beat you, and you can still win.
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I stand by my previous comments (post 29, above), but let's give Cavendish his due as a sprinter. He did not win all of his niw 34 stages through perfect lead-outs. Over the years, he also showed an uncanny ability to come out of seemingly nowhere in a wild melee and squeeze through seemingly impossibly small gaps to get into position. And when he has had a straight shot to the line, whether due to a good lead-out or a due to his own efforts to wriggle his way to the front, he has been extremely hard to beat in a straight drag race. His acceleration from set-up fast to final-dash top speed is pretty amazing. There may be others who get up to a slightly higher top speed (van Aert and another rider were catching him at the end of the sprint stage the other day). but he goes from 60 to 100, figuratively speaking, faster than anyone.when he's in top form.
He's sort of like Rickey Henderson stealing bases. He was plenty fast in a straight foot race, but others were faster. What set Henderson apart was how quickly he could go from a standing start to top speed. In a 100m race, others could beat him. But no one was faster going 90 ft to second base.
He's sort of like Rickey Henderson stealing bases. He was plenty fast in a straight foot race, but others were faster. What set Henderson apart was how quickly he could go from a standing start to top speed. In a 100m race, others could beat him. But no one was faster going 90 ft to second base.
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Meet me at spin class!!!!
I actually fancy myself on my understanding of pro cycling which is exactly why Lance is my #1. I'm not sure this is the place to discuss this, however.
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You said you saw the other riders "let up" before the finish, and suspect that they did it with intent to give Cav the win. If that's your conclusion, you aren't really paying attention to what was actually happening at the finish, and why it happened the way it did.
The same question was asked frequently when Mark Renshaw was Cav's final leadout guy. Morkov might be capable of winning, but that's not his job, and don't be so sure. He's a professional with a specific task, and he is doing it excellently. That's the kind of work that keeps you getting picked by your DS for the big races, and keeps your contact getting renewed. Go rogue to steal a win from the designated sprinter on a hot streak, and you quickly find yourself looking for employment, probably with a pay cut. That said, if Cav wasn't delivering, the game would need to change. The other complication is that there is a skillset to being a sprinter. It's not just about being able to go fast. A fast finisher might be able to steal a couple of wins by surprise on occasion, but it's a totally different game when everyone is focused on trying to beat you, and you can still win.
The same question was asked frequently when Mark Renshaw was Cav's final leadout guy. Morkov might be capable of winning, but that's not his job, and don't be so sure. He's a professional with a specific task, and he is doing it excellently. That's the kind of work that keeps you getting picked by your DS for the big races, and keeps your contact getting renewed. Go rogue to steal a win from the designated sprinter on a hot streak, and you quickly find yourself looking for employment, probably with a pay cut. That said, if Cav wasn't delivering, the game would need to change. The other complication is that there is a skillset to being a sprinter. It's not just about being able to go fast. A fast finisher might be able to steal a couple of wins by surprise on occasion, but it's a totally different game when everyone is focused on trying to beat you, and you can still win.
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You're stating what you think you saw. When you actually pay attention to the factors involved with those riders in that window of time, it's very clear that they didn't "let up".
Reviewing the video of the last KM again (easy to find on YouTube), Philipsen gave it his all to get around Cav, and threw his bike at the line in a final effort. Cortina was completely gassed in the closing meters, but never stopped pedaling until he was clearly beaten shortly before the line. Morkov is really a non-factor, but he still made a lunge at the line once Cav was past him, and stole 2nd place from Philipsen. Not one of these guys "let up".
Reviewing the video of the last KM again (easy to find on YouTube), Philipsen gave it his all to get around Cav, and threw his bike at the line in a final effort. Cortina was completely gassed in the closing meters, but never stopped pedaling until he was clearly beaten shortly before the line. Morkov is really a non-factor, but he still made a lunge at the line once Cav was past him, and stole 2nd place from Philipsen. Not one of these guys "let up".
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Agreed 100%. He's made comments recognizing - and a bit in awe of - the quality of the riders delivering him to the finish, and downplaying his own role in the victory. I like this version of Cav quite a lot.
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I liked Cavendish from his first tour. He was brash, exuberent, and off-putting to some, but he was always honest about his feelings. He is no Eddy, and I think he knows that. Times have changed in the sport - there are specialists. In Mercks' day - not so much. Cav's tie does not diminish Eddy's accomplishment.
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You're stating what you think you saw. When you actually pay attention to the factors involved with those riders in that window of time, it's very clear that they didn't "let up".
Reviewing the video of the last KM again (easy to find on YouTube), Philipsen gave it his all to get around Cav, and threw his bike at the line in a final effort. Cortina was completely gassed in the closing meters, but never stopped pedaling until he was clearly beaten shortly before the line. Morkov is really a non-factor, but he still made a lunge at the line once Cav was past him, and stole 2nd place from Philipsen. Not one of these guys "let up".
Reviewing the video of the last KM again (easy to find on YouTube), Philipsen gave it his all to get around Cav, and threw his bike at the line in a final effort. Cortina was completely gassed in the closing meters, but never stopped pedaling until he was clearly beaten shortly before the line. Morkov is really a non-factor, but he still made a lunge at the line once Cav was past him, and stole 2nd place from Philipsen. Not one of these guys "let up".
Let it go already
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Unfortunately, there's no helping those who are steadfastly determined to stick to their ill-formed conclusions. Have a nice day.
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You too have a great day. And if I catch you out in the streets we'll race!!!
Last edited by malcala622; 07-09-21 at 11:58 AM.
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Would you really compare today's stage to the 2006 Giro stage where Voight openly and obviously gifted the stage to his Italian breakaway companion?
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Back to the original topic, Bob Roll specifically mentioned today that Eddy's list of achievements would never be equaled, but Cav had a chance to tie one of those records.
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Nope. Try again.