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Rohloff on Paris Brest Paris???

Old 07-23-21, 08:07 PM
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Mulkitez
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Rohloff on Paris Brest Paris???

I am planning to ride PBP in 2023 and I'm getting my bike dialed in now to hopefully find a happy stage where not much will change on it from now until PBP. I am seriously considering replacing my 11speed SRAM Apex drivetrain with a Rohloff Hub. The gear ranges on the SRAM are fine, but I find the bullet-proof reliability of the Rohloff very intriguing after reading so many PBP DNF stories because of falty derailleurs. The only downside I can see to switching to a Rohloff is adding extra weight, but I've read many opinions that tell me not to be concerned with that for PBP. Is any one on here experience with riding PBP on a Rohloff? Or if you have ridden PBP, does one see many Rohloff hubs on the road?? Any feedback is appreciated.
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Old 07-23-21, 08:59 PM
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I don't think I have ever seen any Rohloff hubs on PBP, but I'm sure there have been some. I don't know that I was aware of derailleur failures on PBP. Wheels, yes.
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Old 07-23-21, 11:33 PM
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Even a Rohloff is not completely fail safe, and you will have a harder time to fix it at the controls or on the road.

A derailleur system can be very reliable and quite easy to repair. Make it compatible with standard parts (Shimano road 2x11) and stick to mechanical shifting. Change cables some time before the event, bring a spare cable and the tools to exchange it.

I have a spare derailleur hanger for my frame with me. Never used it, but the Iíve seen a few cases of bent/broken derailleur hangers on the road that could lead to DNF. There are generic ones (for repairs only) that get attached with the quick release, which you even could help others with.

Iíve seen more wheel problems than gear problems at PBP. So use reliable and repairable wheels!
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Old 07-24-21, 03:39 AM
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Seeing a Rohloff equipped bike out on a ride is as rare now as it was back in 2007 when I rode PBP. If your dream bike is Rohloff equipped then I say go for it!
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Old 07-24-21, 05:48 AM
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I doubt that many failures on grand randonnees can legitimately be attributed to the bike. The probability of finishing would not seem correlated to equipment choice since the DNF rate hasn't changed all that much over the decades during which time equipment has changed quite a lot. The Rohloff won't matter one bit either way in my opinion. Get it if you want it.

Things like knowing how to be comfortable riding in cold, wet hills probably matter more although starting with the determination that you will finish also matters.

I did see a Rohloff on a custom brevet bike on a 300K. It had fashionable thin tubing said to plane very well. It was one pretty Randonneuse. It was a cold, rainy brevet with snow coming down at higher elevations. I think 2 finished it. One was a fixed gear and the other was 11 speed SRAM Red.

You did not ask specifically, but I would focus on versatile, warm, "rainproof" kit and getting yourself and bike as light as practical but it has to be comfortable and reasonably durable. PBP does not have any steep hills but my Garmin recorded almost 39,000 feet of seemingly unending rolling terrain that starts to feel hilly on the old joints at some point.
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Old 07-24-21, 06:43 AM
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I have only ridden a few 200k brevets, so do not count me as having any knowledge on riding PBP or any 1200k.

But, I do bike tours on a Rohloff bike. I also have two derailleur bikes that I use for bike touring. Thus I am one of those odd people that have knowledge and experience with both types of drivetrains. And I continue to use both types of drivetrains, not picking one over the other.

I would prefer a derailleur system for brevets. If I was starting from scratch today on setting up a rando bike for PBP it would probably be a 3X10 system, cables (not electronic shifting). But I am saying that in part because most of my bikes have triple cranks and I am used to them. I would investigate the latest wide range 1X systems before I firmed up the choice of 1 or 3 chainrings, as there are advantages to a 1X system with a single sequential shifter.

One thing that I think is fairly common with poor shifting on derailleur bikes is a bent hanger or a bent rear derailleur. That is something that won't happen to a Rohloff bike, but potential for that is also something that can be minimized with a derailleur bike with proper care when packing for transport, etc. Potential for a bent hanger or derailleur is not something that would drive my decision on which drivetrain to use. As noted by someone above, if your bike uses replaceable hangers, you can carry one, I carry one on bike tours on my bike that uses a replaceable hanger.

I understand the interest in a Rohloff. On a bike tour I like having a drive train that has all the small intricate parts in the hub, unlikely to be damaged in a crash or fall, I have confidence that the hub will keep working in adverse conditions. When touring, the thing I like the most about riding a bike with a Rohloff is the single sequential shifter, I do not have to think about cross chaining, do not have to think about which shifter to use next time I shift, ability to shift when stopped, etc.

Someone on this forum a few years ago bought a new Rohloff equipped bike and planned to use it for brevets. I found it interesting that a couple years later he bought a new titanium derailleur bike to use for brevets. I do not think he ever explained why he went from one drivetrain to the other. He planned to buy the Rohloff bike for touring and was thinking of also using the same bike for brevets, perhaps he found that the Rohloff bike that was built up to be a heavy duty touring machine was not the ideal rando bike? I did some searches and found some of his posts on his bikes.
https://www.bikeforums.net/long-dist...evet-bike.html
https://www.bikeforums.net/long-dist...onneuse-2.html

If you have any detailed questions, please let me know. I already went into more detail than I planned in this post, but I could elaborate on any specific aspects. I built up most of my bikes from parts. But I am ignorant on the latest newest derailleur systems.
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Old 07-24-21, 06:57 AM
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I had considered a Rohloff years back.

I hate the jump from 53-15 to 53-17, what is that? 14%? Isn't that the standard jump on a Rohloff? I like one tooth jumps when fighting the wind (cubic) and 3-4 tooth jumps when climbing (linear_ish). A Rohloff would not work for me on a brevet. Touring? Should be fine for me.
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Old 07-24-21, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
...
I hate the jump from 53-15 to 53-17, what is that? 14%? Isn't that the standard jump on a Rohloff? ...
Yes, the average gear change from one gear to the next on a Rohloff is almost exactly the same size jump as 53-13 to 53-17.

Every gear change on a Rohloff is almost identical in percent change. Total range is 526 percent.

My derailleur rando bike and touring bikes have much closer gearing in the gear range of 50 to 100 gear inches than my Rohloff bike. And that is one of the reasons that I do some of my bike tours on a derailleur system when i also have a Rohloff bike. Between 50 and 100 gear inches my Rohloff bike has 5 or 6 gears, my rando bike and derailleur touring bikes have 9 or 10 gears within that range.

When riding in rolling hills where I am shifting quite frequently, I prefer the Rohloff with very quick and easy shifting with a sequential shifter but if the grade is more consistent over time and my shifts are much less frequent I like to be able to find the ideal gear with a derailleur bike that has closer gear spacing.
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Old 07-24-21, 07:33 AM
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Years ago I used to tour and randonneur with half step gearing plus granny. That was sweet. Off the top of my head, the spacing was 4-5%.

I can see the advantage of quick shifting with the Rohoff. That is why I like my electronic shifting. I doubt I will ever buy anything but electronic shifting if I buy another group. 12 speed 11-39 Rotor Cassette something like a 52/36 on the front would be my dream. I can't see needing or wanting a 10 cog.
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Old 07-24-21, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Someone on this forum a few years ago bought a new Rohloff equipped bike and planned to use it for brevets.
AFAIK, he never rode the Americano on more than a couple brevets, if any, he had a carbon Giant he used to ride before the TI bike. I don't think the Americano gets much love except for a very occasional tour.
He might have ridden one of my perms with me on the Americano, can't remember too well.
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Old 07-24-21, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Years ago I used to tour and randonneur with half step gearing plus granny. That was sweet. Off the top of my head, the spacing was 4-5%.
....
There are so few people now that know what half step gearing is, I rarely mention it.

The bike I built up four years ago that I consider my light touring bike has a 3X8 half step plus granny drive train. A Sram eight speed 11/32 cassette, crankset is 46/42/24. The unpainted 24T granny chainring almost disappears on an unpainted titanium bike.



I avoid the two most cross chained gears on each chainring, thus of the possible 24 gears, I have 18 effective gears.
https://gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS...N=MPH&DV=teeth

My other derailleur touring bike has the same exact gearing but with 26 inch wheels the gears are a hair lower.

Half step gearing was great when I toured in Florida, it was perfectly flat except for the bridges, a slight change of windage and I would make a small adjustment for my gearing. But when I toured Pacific Coast, the grade changed often enough that I was frequently shifting and rarely was trying to find the ideal gear, half step there was not an advantage.

But, my rando bike has a stock road triple (52/42/30) with the same eight speed 11/32 cassette, not half step gearing. But I can usually find the exact gear I want on that bike pretty quick.
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Old 07-24-21, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
AFAIK, he never rode the Americano on more than a couple brevets, if any, he had a carbon Giant he used to ride before the TI bike. I don't think the Americano gets much love except for a very occasional tour.
He might have ridden one of my perms with me on the Americano, can't remember too well.
I suspected that. The Americano is built to carry a load, and when he was buying a new titanium bike a few years later with a derailleur drive train, it sounded like he came to the same conclusion.

If he sees this thread title, he might open it and comment.
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Old 07-24-21, 10:43 AM
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There might be some curious people reading this thread that want to learn more about Rohloffs. And the OP might still pursue getting one. On the touring board I wrote up a more lengthy post a few years ago that compares my Rohloff experience with derailleur bikes for touring, that link is here:
https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...l#post21144689

Assuming you buy a chain drive bike with the stock 16T Rohloff sprocket, you will have to decide what chainring size you want for setting your gearing range. For riding around home, I use a 44T chainring, that gives me a nice range from first gear up to 14th gear. But when I take the bike on a tour and put a lot of weight on it, I need lower gearing for hill climbing, I use a 36T chainring for that (and four less chain links). My frame was designed for a Rohloff, it has an eccentric bottom bracket for chain tension adjustment. If you wanted a belt, you need a frame that has the means to install a belt, usually that is a split seat stay.

I followed the advice at this link, I cut a little notch in one tooth on the chainring and on the sprocket, I am careful to always put a chainlink with outer plates on those notched teeth. When my sprocket gets quite worn, I can visually see that every other tooth has more wear than the other teeth because of the way that every other link on a chain elongates with wear.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chain-life.html

I built up my Rohloff bike in 2013. And I think I tried at least three different places to mount my shifter before I settled on the HubBub adapter. If you are using drop bars and I assume the vast majority of people would want drop bars for a rando bike, you will have to decide where you want your shifter.
https://www.cyclingabout.com/rohloff...op-handlebars/

I picked the HubBub adapter because I wanted my shifter out to the side where I could have my hand on the shifter while I also had some leverage for steering, I did not want my shifter close to the steering axis. I learned that when I was going up some steep hills in rough 4X4 terrain in the middle of Iceland with a heavily loaded touring bike and there were too many times when I wanted to downshift further but my shifter was not located where I had good ability to steer on a rocky road, and part way up one of those hills I decided I would buy the HubBub Adapter when I got home. I have been using bar end shifters on some of my bikes for years, so putting the shifter on the right side bar end made perfect sense to me, as on a couple of my bikes my shifter is located there too. But, for rando use, leverage for steering is not a priority so you might want something else. The stock Rohloff shifter is a twist grip shifter. The shifter on the right bar end using the HubBub adapter below.






The hub can put a lot of torque on the frame, you need a way to lock the axle so it will not spin in the dropouts and you need a frame strong enough so that the frame does not break. Mine has an extra long non-driveside dropout slot and there is a knob on the hub that sits in that slot, the dropout takes that torque. Different frame designers use different methods.



Some people worry that it will be hard to remove a wheel, I find that it comes out and goes back in with about the same effort and time spent with a derailleur bike. But frames with horizontal dropouts can be more time consuming.

Maintenance is very simple. Periodic oil changes is about it, and occasionally flipping or changing sprockets.

More on oil changes here, but where they suggest a cup of tea, I prefer a glass of red wine:

There are two different cable systems, my bike uses the EX box. The other one uses an internal gear cable. The bike frame cable guides were likely installed with the type of cabling that the frame designer had in mind if the frame was designed for a Rohloff.

And if you can't figure out why I bought a Rohloff in the first place, I built up that bike to go to places like this.


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Old 07-24-21, 03:14 PM
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For a very long, very hilly with a time limit ride like PBP, I'd choose the fastest equipment available to me. Multispeed hubs are not as efficient as derailleur. The difference is small, but it's there.



A 2% efficiency difference doesn't mean that the bike is 2% slower, but it will be slightly slower particularly on climbs. Depending on whose Garmin it was, there are about 12k meters of climbing, though mostly on rolling hills.
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Old 07-24-21, 07:06 PM
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How are the gear changing ergonomics?
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Old 07-24-21, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
For a very long, very hilly with a time limit ride like PBP, I'd choose the fastest equipment available to me. Multispeed hubs are not as efficient as derailleur. The difference is small, but it's there.
...
A 2% efficiency difference doesn't mean that the bike is 2% slower, but it will be slightly slower particularly on climbs. Depending on whose Garmin it was, there are about 12k meters of climbing, though mostly on rolling hills.
The people doing the efficiency studies usually bought new equipment. And most Rohloff owners will tell you that their hubs got smoother over time. And I think there was some change in the seals that improved how they roll, but on that I am not sure the details or when that occurred.

Is my Rohloff less efficient than a well lubed new derailleur system? It probably is. But I noticed it was running much smoother by the time I did the first oil change. It just seems to get better year after year.

There was a followup to that study that suggested that there was less friction loss than the study you cited.
https://www.hupi.org/HParchive/PDF/hp55/hp55p11-15.pdf

This raises another point, some studies have shown a measurable efficiency loss if jockey wheels (or pulleys) are used for chain tensioning on an IGH system, where sliding dropouts or eccentric bottom brackets have less friction loss.

And a lot of people are using belts on Rohloffs, the friction losses on belt systems starts yet another debate.


Originally Posted by znomit View Post
How are the gear changing ergonomics?
I do not know what you are asking. Can you be more specific?
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Old 07-25-21, 12:49 AM
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Gear changing is via a twist at the end of the bars? Is this more work than STI or friction shifters?
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Old 07-25-21, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
The people doing the efficiency studies usually bought new equipment. And most Rohloff owners will tell you that their hubs got smoother over time. And I think there was some change in the seals that improved how they roll, but on that I am not sure the details or when that occurred.

Is my Rohloff less efficient than a well lubed new derailleur system? It probably is. But I noticed it was running much smoother by the time I did the first oil change. It just seems to get better year after year.

There was a followup to that study that suggested that there was less friction loss than the study you cited.
https://www.hupi.org/HParchive/PDF/hp55/hp55p11-15.pdf

This raises another point, some studies have shown a measurable efficiency loss if jockey wheels (or pulleys) are used for chain tensioning on an IGH system, where sliding dropouts or eccentric bottom brackets have less friction loss.

And a lot of people are using belts on Rohloffs, the friction losses on belt systems starts yet another debate.

I do not know what you are asking. Can you be more specific?
That study referenced in the link was conducted/sponsored by Rohloff. Chester Kyle's response to the study in the journal is worth considering unless one can pedal at 400 watts. Kyle thinks 200 Watts at 75 rpm are more realistic test method parameters than what Rohloff used although he seems to agree that the Rohloff's efficiency is relatively improved at higher wattages but contends the rankings would stay the same. So, the Rohloff might be even less efficient at brevet speeds. 200 watts is a massive of power to average on a long brevet. Another study used 1 HP input. Also unrealistic. Kyle's assessment of the Rohloffs efficiency might actually be optimistic at brevet speeds.
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Old 07-25-21, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by znomit View Post
Gear changing is via a twist at the end of the bars? Is this more work than STI or friction shifters?
I do not find it to be more effort than a Shimano bar end shifter. With 14 gears, when I want to change a lot of gears, like cresting a steep hill where in a very short time I want to go from gear 1 to 14, I find that the most gears I can easily change at once by rotating my wrist are three shifts with each twist of the shifter.

The indexing is in the hub, not the shifter, there are two cables and one is pulled to upshift, the other for downshifts. The cables are normally slack and you have to have some extra play in the cables. If your cables are too tight, you can land in between gears when you shift. I might leave my cables looser than most, If I am in gear 10, I can turn my shifter from about 9.5 to 10.5 with just the looseness in the cables. When you are used to taught cables with the indexing in the shifter, this might take a bit of time to get used to having a loose feeling shifter.

I included the link in one of my previous posts to a list of other options, that includes a couple companies that make aftermarket hardware that allows you to use brifters or a flat bar type ratchet type shifter.

The Co-Motion twist shifter that they make for larger diameter drop bars likely turns less of an angle per shift because of the larger diameter. Thus, maybe you can get four or five shifts when rotating the wrist.

When the Rohloff hub was first designed, it was intended for mountain biking, not touring or road biking. Thus the twist grip shifter that is designed for smaller diameter flat bars. That smaller diameter is why I needed an adapter to fit it on my drop bars.
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Old 07-25-21, 09:14 AM
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Efficiency: If I were going to ride PBP on a derailleur bike, I'd put on a new set of ceramic jockey wheels for my last few weeks before France. As pointed out above, jockey wheels do have some slight friction.

One study of DNF I saw said that one of the best predictors of success was having one pannier. One of the best predictors of a DNF was being over 70. So it seems that being young and having a wide variety of clothing available is very helpful. One of those 3 oz. bivvy bags might be nice. There are better options than panniers available now.

With all the complaints about hand fatigue one hears, I wonder about the reliability of electronic shifting vs. cables.
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Old 07-25-21, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
That study referenced in the link was conducted/sponsored by Rohloff. Chester Kyle's response to the study in the journal is worth considering unless one can pedal at 400 watts. Kyle thinks 200 Watts at 75 rpm are more realistic test method parameters than what Rohloff used although he seems to agree that the Rohloff's efficiency is relatively improved at higher wattages but contends the rankings would stay the same. So, the Rohloff might be even less efficient at brevet speeds. 200 watts is a massive of power to average on a long brevet. Another study used 1 HP input. Also unrealistic. Kyle's assessment of the Rohloffs efficiency might actually be optimistic at brevet speeds.
I read that article several years ago, I am not going to re-read it now.

I previously noted in my first post on this thread that:
I would prefer a derailleur system for brevets. If I was starting from scratch today on setting up a rando bike for PBP it would probably be a 3X10 system, cables (not electronic shifting). But I am saying that in part because most of my bikes have triple cranks and I am used to them. I would investigate the latest wide range 1X systems before I firmed up the choice of 1 or 3 chainrings, as there are advantages to a 1X system with a single sequential shifter.

And I noted in a previous post that:
Is my Rohloff less efficient than a well lubed new derailleur system? It probably is. But I noticed it was running much smoother by the time I did the first oil change. It just seems to get better year after year.

I am not trying to sell anyone on a Rohloff here, I was just trying to provide a comparison between a Rohloff and derailleur bikes because I am one of those rare people that have both and ride both.

When I ride my Rohloff bike, I do not notice any extra drag from the hub. But to put this in perspective, this is on a bike capable of expedition use, it is a heavy bike and I usually have 57mm wide off-road or mountain bike tires on the bike. I am going to be slower on this bike regardless of drive train. When I am in low range (gears 1-7), I suspect that there is additional drag as the third planetary gear is used, the studies also show more drag in gears 1-7. And the hub is noticeably noisy in gears 1-7, but when I am in those gears I am going pretty slow up a hill.

The studies that I have seen do not specifically compare Rohloff hub drag to the drag from a dynohub with the lights on, but the wattage values for drag that I have seen are similar. When I ride my rando bike (SP PV8 dynohub) or light touring bike (Shimano dynohub) I often leave the lights on, even when on trails that have no vehicle traffic because I can't feel any drag. Usually the only times I turn the dyno powered lights off are when I want to use the USB charger to replenish my GPS battery.
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Old 07-25-21, 09:56 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Efficiency: If I were going to ride PBP on a derailleur bike, I'd put on a new set of ceramic jockey wheels for my last few weeks before France. ...
...
One study of DNF I saw said that one of the best predictors of success was having one pannier. ....
I bought some cheap ball bearing jockey wheels and put them on my rando bike and light touring bike last year. I doubt that they help much, but the stock pulley wheels on my Shimano derailleur had no bearings, just grease. And I got a little tired of taking them out and re-greasing them about once a year. I doubt that ceramic would be that much better than normal ball bearing ones, but if you are close to a time cut off then I suspect that everything becomes important.

I noted above that the longest brevets I ride are 200k and at age 67 I have no interest in even thinking about PBP. But I carry a 11 liter Carradice saddle bag (Pendle) on brevets, it is nice to have a place for rain gear, extra water, some food. That is in addition to my handlebar bag. The saddle bag is almost never full, but the extra volume does not hurt anything empty.
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Old 07-25-21, 10:00 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Efficiency: If I were going to ride PBP on a derailleur bike, I'd put on a new set of ceramic jockey wheels for my last few weeks before France. As pointed out above, jockey wheels do have some slight friction.

One study of DNF I saw said that one of the best predictors of success was having one pannier. One of the best predictors of a DNF was being over 70. So it seems that being young and having a wide variety of clothing available is very helpful. One of those 3 oz. bivvy bags might be nice. There are better options than panniers available now.

With all the complaints about hand fatigue one hears, I wonder about the reliability of electronic shifting vs. cables.
I was thinking about high efficiency jockey wheels. I was watching the olympic races and some brands seem to worry about jockey wheels whereas others obviously are still using journal bearings, even on their high-end derailleurs.

The only time I have had trouble shifting integrated shifters was when it was colder and rainier than expected on a 600k. Fortunately, I figured out how to shift and it got warmer. That was one of the most miserable 600k's I have been on. I only rode it because I was sick and dnf'ed the 600k I attempted the week before. I was braking while going down hills because there was so much water on the road I wasn't sure I could stop if I had to. I'm not sure I trust electronic shifting under those conditions, have they been tested while fully immersed? A twist grip probably wouldn't have been too bad in those conditions.

It's interesting about panniers. I rode one year with a single pannier. It worked great until I rode a 1000k with a quartering headwind from the side the pannier was on. I could feel the wind catching the pannier. I would like to have less stuff on the bike, but conditions just seem to call for it for many rides. I was glad I had warm clothing on PBP, for example. I have seen that one of the easiest ways to DNF is to use a hydration pack. Probably because it encourages you to drink too much. And I always have plain water in mine because I don't want to have to do anything about nasties in the pack. As far as getting younger, I don't know how to do that, but I wish I could go back to my mid-30s and tell myself it was a bad idea to stop riding just because motorists are so criminal to cyclists.
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Old 07-25-21, 11:01 AM
  #24  
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I doubt anyone could feel the 6-8W of a dyno hub of 3-5 watts of a Rohloff hub. Imperceptible doesn't mean irrelevant

I am a low power, efficiency minded rider.

On my last 600K, my moving time was 22:39 and my average power was 89 watts (102 normalized) for the whole brevet. If I lost 10 watts due to any frictional source and that is not hard to do, the ride would have taken me about 1.5 more hours moving time. Everyone weighs a different amount and presents a different profile to the wind, so, YMMV. On a 1200K, this becomes 3 hours extra time. This is on a bent. Real numbers. I would have to really dig to find my power numbers on an upright.

The above example is I think the point CFBoy and I are trying to suggest.

WRT pulleys, anything but the top of line derailleurs usually have bushings instead of ball bearings. Replacement is an easy 1 watt. They are also easier to maintain. I use Hawk Racing steel bearing pulleys....they are close enough in performance to ceramic but a fraction of the cost. I also use their BB. I use NTN low friction bearings in all of my wheels. A watt here and a watt there eventually adds up. If the Rohloff were truly 2% less efficient, that is a lot of wasted energy for this old bag of bones.
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Old 07-25-21, 11:38 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I doubt anyone could feel the 6-8W of a dyno hub of 3-5 watts of a Rohloff hub. Imperceptible doesn't mean irrelevant

I am a low power, efficiency minded rider.
....
I am clearly a low wattage rider too. But on a bike tour, usually I can travel a shorter distance in a day if it is a day with uphills or headwinds. My last tour (pre-Covid), there were some 10 or 11 hour days in the saddle because the campsites were not closer together. Usually I strive for something more like 6 or 7 hour days on a bike tour. I am there to enjoy the trip, not win any awards. Being retired, I can take trips longer than a week, so I do not have to plan out my trips based on a limited number of days anymore.

The photo below was the road on a 14 hour day. There were stretches where I could not go over 8 km/hr because of the bad washboarding. When you don't bother to steer around rocks that are smaller than a tennis ball, that tells you how bad the road is. This is the type of place I bought that bike for.



But, because that is my only S&S coupled bike, for international trips I take that bike even if a lighter duty bike would be better.

Another photo of that bike.



I think I had about one week of food on the bike when I took that photo.
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