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Importance of foot retention

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Importance of foot retention

Old 07-29-21, 03:24 PM
  #126  
LarrySellerz
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The ex racer who owns the bike store I frequent does the whole "pull up" thing to train, says his russian coach had them do that. I felt like my pedal stroke was NOT smooth at all once I hit my max cadence (probably above 130) and ended up pulling something in my groin so maybe even if foot retention isn't needed or doesn't give me extra watts, it could teach me how to pedal smoothly. Maybe put some foot retention on my 42x18 single speed and turn it into a fixie and bomb some hills. Thats one way to force high cadence.

The girl asked if I have time to go to their house this afternoon, says she has something for me and wants to see my bike. Maybe its an old pair of his cleats. If its a jersey imma be salty
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Old 07-29-21, 03:33 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
I've heard that appeals to some women. Not necessarily one's own wife, though.
In my experience, your point is 100% valid.
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Old 07-29-21, 03:34 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
The ex racer who owns the bike store I frequent does the whole "pull up" thing to train, says his russian coach had them do that. I felt like my pedal stroke was NOT smooth at all once I hit my max cadence (probably above 130) and ended up pulling something in my groin so maybe even if foot retention isn't needed or doesn't give me extra watts, it could teach me how to pedal smoothly. Maybe put some foot retention on my 42x18 single speed and turn it into a fixie and bomb some hills. Thats one way to force high cadence.

The girl asked if I have time to go to their house this afternoon, says she has something for me and wants to see my bike. Maybe its an old pair of his cleats. If its a jersey imma be salty
Usually my jerseys are only salty after I ride.
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Old 07-29-21, 03:37 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Wait!!!!....this is about the honorable pursuit of a girl? Now, I want to help.....
If by honorable pursuit of a girl you mean pursing a woman that appears to be in a happy relationship with someone else but just happened to be kind to Larry so he decided to creep on her and insult her boyfriend by telling him that his girlfriend has a daddy fixation.

Then yes.
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Old 07-29-21, 03:38 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
The girl asked if I have time to go to their house this afternoon, says she has something for me
Great progress and you didn't even need the mirror or ankle socks! Pics or it didn't happen....
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Old 07-29-21, 03:39 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by KJ43 View Post
If by honorable pursuit of a girl you mean pursing a woman that appears to be in a happy relationship with someone else but just happened to be kind to Larry so he decided to creep on her and insult her boyfriend by telling him that his girlfriend has a daddy fixation.

Then yes.
Details. Details. I can't be bothered.

All's fair in love and war.
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Old 07-29-21, 03:41 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
.All's fair in love and war.
Yep, just ask Genghis Khan, or one of his billions of descendants.
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Old 07-29-21, 03:41 PM
  #133  
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How am I creeping on her, and I didn't mean to offend him or suggest anything wrong about her, heck i'm all for girls with a daddy thing. It was just locker room guy talk, I wasn't trying to insult either of them, I was like damn thats sick that you bagged a girl half your age, good stuff man. Also im not pursuing her, how could I when her BF is so much faster than me. Real talk though I'm avoiding flirting with women on the group rides because there aren't many of them and im sure they get way more of that than they want anyways.

Last edited by LarrySellerz; 07-29-21 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 07-29-21, 03:50 PM
  #134  
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Just wait till they cock a snook at you in some bike shorts, man
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Old 07-29-21, 03:54 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
How am I creeping on her, and I didn't mean to offend him or suggest anything wrong about her, heck i'm all for girls with a daddy thing. It was just locker room guy talk, I wasn't trying to insult either of them, I was like damn thats sick that you bagged a girl half your age, good stuff man. Also im not pursuing her, how could I when her BF is so much faster than me. Real talk though I'm avoiding flirting with women on the group rides because there aren't many of them and im sure they get way more of that than they want anyways.
​​​​​​
Lol. Just kidding around and doing some smack talking man. You know...."locker room talk".
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Old 07-29-21, 03:58 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
cock a snook
Whoops, just googled that and it didn't mean what I thought: cop a squiz
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Old 07-29-21, 04:24 PM
  #137  
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Chicks always go for the old guy on a real road bike, wearing bike-specific attire.
I think it's because the girls assume the men are too old to hit on them. But that works only for guys aged 70 or older.
*****
I much prefer riding with foot retention, either pinned flats or toe clips and straps or clips, straps, and cleats. I suspect it's easier to learn to pedal smoothly without foot retention, though, because you almost have to pedal smoothly if the alternative is losing contact with the pedals.
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Old 07-29-21, 04:42 PM
  #138  
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Ugh they are giving me cleats and pedals in my size, now I have no excuse. Darn it. I was enjoying sandbagging. my ride is like low-key sponsering me lol, people offering to give me kit, shoes, bike, etc.

Last edited by LarrySellerz; 07-29-21 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 07-29-21, 04:43 PM
  #139  
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I had a Giant CFR1 BITD. That noodle taught me a smooth spin; it'd soak up anything more.
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Old 07-29-21, 04:58 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
I didn't mean to offend him or suggest anything wrong about her, heck i'm all for girls with a daddy thing.
Larry, you’re not helping your case here.


Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
I was like damn thats sick that you bagged a girl half your age, good stuff man.
Still not.


Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Also im not pursuing her, how could I when her BF is so much faster than me.
It’s not just literal pursuit, on your bike, like the track racing event. A guy who knows what the ladies like can get them even if he’s a slow rider.

Just be cool, man. You should have stopped at “She asked if I have time to go to their house this afternoon, says she has something for me and wants to see my bike.” Then you add a thumbs up emoji, or a winking grin emoji, and leave it there.
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Old 07-29-21, 05:02 PM
  #141  
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takes a special person to want to see another person's pedal stroke & waiving abilities.
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Old 07-29-21, 05:13 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Ugh they are giving me cleats and pedals in my size, now I have no excuse. Darn it. I was enjoying sandbagging. my ride is like low-key sponsering straight up pitying me lol, people offering to give me kit, shoes, bike, etc.
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Old 07-29-21, 06:13 PM
  #143  
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I think the foot retention comment that girl made was bondage reference. She was totally hitting on you, man. Be careful when you go over to her place.
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Old 07-29-21, 07:23 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by TX_master View Post
Here's how I look at it, and no I'm not drunk (just yet). But imagine a scenario where you only pedaled with one leg and the other leg contributed nothing. Doesn't actively resist or participate. This means the active leg on the downstroke must not only overcome the inherant drivetrain resistance but also the resistance of the non-participating leg, having to help propel it up on its upstroke.

The real power is in the downstroke. I would agree with others here that trying to actively propel the bike through upward pressure could lead to injuries in the hip flexors and possibly other areas. However any assistance the leg on the upstroke side can give to the leg on the downstroke side should be positive. What I mean is that when a leg gets to the bottom and begins the upstroke just remembering to pull the leg up without exerting any upward pressure on the pedal (not trying to feel like you are pulling the cleat out of the pedal), but rather just trying to unload that side should allow the leg on the downstroke to feel less resistance.

I regularly practice this on my regular morning rides and find that when I focus on it that I feel I am spinning a bit easier in whatever combination I'm in and can sometimes move to a smaller cog. But the problem for me is remembering to do it. It requires a lot of concentration and since I usually find myself thinking about work and solving the worlds problems I frequently forget and find myself back to the same leg on the upstroke not contributing as much. As long as I'm not trying to exert force on the pedal on the upstroke I am fine. Its just hard to be consistent with it.
It's called neuromuscular coordination which has to be wired into your spinal ganglia. This takes more time than one might think. There's an easy path to getting there. The following works much better on a trainer or rollers, less effective outdoors and useless to practice on a spin bike or fixed gear.

Once a week, put the bike in a really low gear and attempt to spin up the cadence to 115-120, while keeping your effort below VT1 or hard breathing anyway. It that's too much effort, try an even lower gear. You want to hold a very high cadence for at least 15', with practice 45'. If you can't spin that fast, at least take it up to the edge of bouncing and hold it here. You're trying to eliminate bouncing at any cadence, 150+ being entirely doable once one gets the skill. If one can pedal continuously like that, one's legs are doing the right thing. As the downstroke leg goes down, the force morphs into pulling back, Pulling back morphs into bending the knee with pressure on the heel cup. When one runs out of knee bend, the leg has momentum and comes over the top. Doing this exercise, imagine that there's a cushion of air between the bottom of your foot and the insole. Wiggle your toes. Pedal with the uppers.
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Old 07-29-21, 08:01 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Those who are leery about foot retention should try learning to trackstand.
I can often make it through a red light on my SS or a multi-geared bike without removing my feet from the pedals. I stop a few feet shy of the next car's bumper, since the best I can manage is to inch forward slightly, a tiny bit at a time, using the front brake to keep me mostly in place. 'Course, on a fixie, a good trackstander can pretty much sit immobile indefinitely.
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Old 07-29-21, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I can often make it through a red light on my SS or a multi-geared bike without removing my feet from the pedals. I stop a few feet shy of the next car's bumper, since the best I can manage is to inch forward slightly, a tiny bit at a time, using the front brake to keep me mostly in place. 'Course, on a fixie, a good trackstander can pretty much sit immobile indefinitely.
The learning curve almost has a right angle in it. If you try to practice it when you can't do it, it's pretty damn hard to practice. But then, all of a sudden, you're doing it! And once you can do it for like a minute, you can do it for as long as you like.
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Old 07-29-21, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
The learning curve almost has a right angle in it. If you try to practice it when you can't do it, it's pretty damn hard to practice. But then, all of a sudden, you're doing it! And once you can do it for like a minute, you can do it for as long as you like.
I'm just wondering how long I should be able to do it on a freewheel bike...I can regularly hold a position for 3-4 seconds before I have to release the front brake slightly and creep forward a couple inches in order to regain/maintain my balance. That's the best I can manage after casually working at it for about 15 years.
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Old 07-29-21, 09:31 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Ugh they are giving me cleats and pedals in my size, now I have no excuse. Darn it. I was enjoying sandbagging. my ride is like low-key sponsering me lol, people offering to give me kit, shoes, bike, etc.
They're trying to get in on the ground floor. They know you're going to be crushing races soon and they want to leech off your fame and wealth. Also, have you ever thought about being an influencer? I bet you can make a good salary posing in your dress riding a smart trainer in all kinds of exotic hotels. And with your dress crumpled up on the floor! They're screaming your name, Larry!
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Old 07-29-21, 09:40 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I'm just wondering how long I should be able to do it on a freewheel bike...I can regularly hold a position for 3-4 seconds before I have to release the front brake slightly and creep forward a couple inches in order to regain/maintain my balance. That's the best I can manage after casually working at it for about 15 years.
Track stand is a valuable skill, like a bunny hop. I think it's like a plank, where beyond a certain point there stops being much benefit. For me, that's a long red light, or how long it takes a kid or old person to walk across the street. Like you, I keep the bike almost perfectly still, the key word being almost. 🙂
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Old 07-29-21, 10:25 PM
  #150  
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yeah so after getting the cleats I realize Ive been pedaling wrong this entire time, feel like im on a rocket ship. I was super bouncy when going my max cadence (they were giving me crap for it when giving me stuff tonight) and I think this will fix it.

Last edited by LarrySellerz; 07-29-21 at 10:34 PM.
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