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Pedestrians are Strange

Old 05-13-21, 10:55 AM
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dmanthree
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Pedestrians are Strange

OK, I've been riding along some nice roads with bike lanes clearly marked on the side. Very nice. Until a pedestrian or runner appears coming at me in the middle of the bike lane, forcing me out into the traffic lane. Normally, I'd understand, but on this road there's an 8' wide sidewalk about 4' to their left. It's not crowded, there are no obstructions, but they seem to like walking and running in the bike lanes. I think what I'll get is a set of wheels like that bad guy in Ben Hur had with the rotating knives. Yeah. That's the ticket. Maybe they'll take the hint.
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Old 05-13-21, 11:08 AM
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aggravating when people walk on the pavement when a sidewalk is available
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Old 05-13-21, 11:12 AM
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It's an age-old complaint and one I've voiced as well. Runners prefer the asphalt because it has fewer obstacles and hazards like root-broken sidewalks or curb drop-offs. In the COVID-era it's also a tempting way to gain social distance. Their behavior doesn't always make sense to me as a cyclist, but I've never stopped to ask. .

In my area, most peds will step back up on the sidewalk when they see us coming, but not all will. More than once we've had to take the lane in front of overtaking traffic. We just try to co-exist by going around.
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Old 05-13-21, 11:12 AM
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Side walks here are messed up. Most use the streets.
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Old 05-13-21, 11:13 AM
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Looks like you handled it well...

Some times it's real hard to avoid road rage. One day that guy is going to crowd the wrong rider.
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Old 05-13-21, 11:32 AM
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Some drivers might feel the same way when they have to manouevre around some cyclists using the road when a bike path is available. The runners may/may not have good reasons for doing what they're doing, just like the cyclists. It can often be very hard to see things from the viewpoint of others, but in my opinion it is a skill that all of us urgently need to work on, me especially.
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Old 05-13-21, 11:52 AM
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Former and still occasional runner here: Asphalt is more forgiving than concrete. Makes a big difference on the joints. Sidewalks tend to be less even--driveway cutouts and tree root heaves, for example. If a runner is coming towards you, it means that they're running against traffic, which is correct. What I'll do is check over my shoulder, move into the lane, and carry on.
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Old 05-13-21, 11:59 AM
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it happens.
What is perturbing is that, a driver will scold a cyclist for riding in the roadway, but when was the last time a pedestrian on foot was ever scolded for being in the roadway, by a driver?
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Old 05-13-21, 12:24 PM
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You could always play a game of "Chicken" with the runners but I would not recommend it.
Usually there is enough space in a bike lane to peacefully co-exist.
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Old 05-13-21, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
... runner appears coming at me in the middle of the bike lane, forcing me out into the traffic lane.
This happens a lot riding south along E Green Lake Way in Seattle. I don't really care. The runner usually hops out of the bike lane back onto the grass as I approach, but I still usually take the road lane and give him room to continue his course if he chooses.
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Old 05-13-21, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OPC View Post
It's an age-old complaint and one I've voiced as well. Runners prefer the asphalt because it has fewer obstacles and hazards like root-broken sidewalks or curb drop-offs. In the COVID-era it's also a tempting way to gain social distance. Their behavior doesn't always make sense to me as a cyclist, but I've never stopped to ask. .

In my area, most peds will step back up on the sidewalk when they see us coming, but not all will. More than once we've had to take the lane in front of overtaking traffic. We just try to co-exist by going around.
If the sidewalk were in bad shape, or had low hanging branches, or anything I wouldn't mind. But it's pristine and wide.
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Old 05-13-21, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by zandoval View Post
Looks like you handled it well...

Some times it's real hard to avoid road rage. One day that guy is going to crowd the wrong rider.
I won't confront them because there's no point to it. But if any of them ever puts me in harm's way...look out.
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Old 05-13-21, 02:18 PM
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I don't ride on MUPs mostly because of the other users and their idiotic, unsafe behavior. However, every once in a while I have to deal with a clueless pedestrian. The other day I see a guy start to walk out into the street and then he backs up...

....I'm thinking, good he saw me...but as I'm speeding along and much closer now, he again starts to step out into the street...I don't have a bell, so all I can do is YELL super loud, which I don't like to do, I rather maneuver well out of the way, but it was too quick for me to just swerve blindly into the road... Luckily my yelling shook him out of his stupor and he jumped back out of the road.



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Old 05-13-21, 02:46 PM
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I've tried various things for people in my lane of travel whether pedestrian or other cyclist. I think the most effective I've done is just stop right where I am and let them move around me. So far it's been non-confrontational.

Of course you need to be aware of what's behind you or other traffic from elsewhere. I only do that when it's otherwise completely clear.

Works while I'm walking too for those that don't realize MUP guidelines here are "keep right, pass on left." Or for those that think their group has exclusive rights to the entire width of the trail.
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Old 05-13-21, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis View Post
The idea is that when a runner runs against traffic, they do so but with the idea that if a vehicle is coming, they can easily step up onto the curb to avoid contact. But many don't. I don't mind but when I know there is traffic behind me, I have been known to wave my arm like, GTFO the way! They do.
The irony though is that if runners ran the same direction as traffic, they wouldn't ever have to step on the curbs, as it's possible for a bike to slow down to the runners pace and ride behind them until safe to go around. But, coming at you, it's not like you can pedal and go backwards to avoid potential 3-way congestion (car, bike, runner) at the same time.
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Old 05-13-21, 03:43 PM
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Old 05-13-21, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
You could always play a game of "Chicken" with the runners but I would not recommend it.
Usually there is enough space in a bike lane to peacefully co-exist.
Some of these imbeciles make no attempt to shade over to share the lane. Those are the ones I'd like to use the "Ben Hur Slicer" on.
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Old 05-13-21, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis View Post
IMO, it's like telling dog walkers that it is safer to let their leashes extend 15 across the MUP so that they don't trip.
DO NOT suggest that ever! LOL
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Old 05-13-21, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis View Post
Yeah, can't figure it out myself why anyone would suggest runners do this. But they do as I have found out after many searches trying to figure it out myself.
Maybe you could ask a runner, instead of projecting what you do or don’t know on them?

Running on the asphalt is far preferable to concrete sidewalks; it’s smoother, fewer cracks, bumps, transitions, etc. It’s also, as has been mentioned, easier on the joints.

You face traffic, because on foot, you’re typically maxed out at 6-8mph, for normal humans (8-10 minute/mile). Overtaking speeds of vehicles are much higher, so you get far more warning if you can see them coming (by the time you hear a car coming, they’re already on you) and doing ‘head-checks’ is a lot more disruptive when running, than riding.

Things work better when everyone gives each other room to make everything work smoothly.
Trying to play Chicken or force perceived right-of-way doesn’t make you the ‘Big Man’ it makes you a jerk.
Glad I don’t run where some of you guys ride; I’d have a lot more broken knuckles.
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Old 05-13-21, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653 View Post
Maybe you could ask a runner, instead of projecting what you do or don’t know on them?

Running on the asphalt is far preferable to concrete sidewalks; it’s smoother, fewer cracks, bumps, transitions, etc. It’s also, as has been mentioned, easier on the joints.

You face traffic, because on foot, you’re typically maxed out at 6-8mph, for normal humans (8-10 minute/mile). Overtaking speeds of vehicles are much higher, so you get far more warning if you can see them coming (by the time you hear a car coming, they’re already on you) and doing ‘head-checks’ is a lot more disruptive when running, than riding.

Things work better when everyone gives each other room to make everything work smoothly.
Trying to play Chicken or force perceived right-of-way doesn’t make you the ‘Big Man’ it makes you a jerk.
Glad I don’t run where some of you guys ride; I’d have a lot more broken knuckles.
Like I said, the sidewalk in this case is wide, smooth, and really nice. No excuse for the runners to be in the BIKE LANE.
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Old 05-13-21, 07:34 PM
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running on asphalt I get, not walking
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Old 05-13-21, 09:39 PM
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[QUOTE=UCantTouchThis;22058505
But common sense says that if there is cyclist heading your way, and a car that could kill the cyclist, the jogger should be considerate enough to step aside as he is the one going against traffic and can make things easier on all. I know what I talking about, just not giving privileges to joggers, they need to think follow the system. I ride my bike, I do as traffic does and don't go head on with anyone that has the right of way.
.[/QUOTE]

Wow, I would hate to live where you do; that there’s so much traffic that bikes and cars and runners are constantly having to make thre-way passes all the time.

I think some of the issue here comes from the concept of who has right-of-way. Generally, it flows ‘down hill’ bikes give room to foot traffic, cars should give room to bikes, and everyone gets where they’re going with a minimum of drama and disruption.

I get that there’s an expectation by some cyclists that bike lanes are for the exclusive use of bikes, but yelling at runners in the bike lane isn’t any different from car drivers yelling at cyclists to ‘get off the road “

Bike lanes are few and far between where I live, so we all have to use the same pavement. Seems to work ok. Any road that has enough traffic to need a bike lane, isn’t somewhere I’d want to go running, anyhow.
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Old 05-14-21, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Former and still occasional runner here: Asphalt is more forgiving than concrete. Makes a big difference on the joints. Sidewalks tend to be less even--driveway cutouts and tree root heaves, for example. If a runner is coming towards you, it means that they're running against traffic, which is correct. What I'll do is check over my shoulder, move into the lane, and carry on.
True, but isn't the purpose of running against traffic so that you see oncoming traffic and take maneuvers to avoid a collision? Like moving closer to the curb so the cyclist doesn't have to go quite as wide (especially noting that, at least where I live, cycling in a bike lane is legal whereas running/walking in one is not)?

Most of the time I will just check for traffic and go around, but sometimes if I think the person is being an oblivious imbecile or just outright rude I will come to a complete stop in the middle of the lane and wait. Now it's their move. They usually look confused for a second and then move over a bit to get around me. At least it made them think.
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Old 05-14-21, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
Like I said, the sidewalk in this case is wide, smooth, and really nice. No excuse for the runners to be in the BIKE LANE.
It's not just a matter of how smooth it is. Apparently asphalt is softer to the impact, enough that it makes a difference to the knees. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it's apparently the reason runners prefer asphalt. Still I agree with you that they should be aware they they are the ones bending the rules and as such should be courteous to those they are inhibiting.

This thread reminds me of Westlake Village where there are usually more runners in the street than on the sidewalk going around the lake, and many of them are spoiled and don't care who they're impeding. I actually once got scolded by a lady who was walking all the way on the line between the bike lane and the motor vehicle lane because I had the nerve to pass her in the 12' of space between her and the curb (8' parking lane + 4' bike lane).
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Old 05-14-21, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
It's not just a matter of how smooth it is. Apparently asphalt is softer to the impact, enough that it makes a difference to the knees. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it's apparently the reason runners prefer asphalt. Still I agree with you that they should be aware they they are the ones bending the rules and as such should be courteous to those they are inhibiting.

This thread reminds me of Westlake Village where there are usually more runners in the street than on the sidewalk going around the lake, and many of them are spoiled and don't care who they're impeding. I actually once got scolded by a lady who was walking all the way on the line between the bike lane and the motor vehicle lane because I had the nerve to pass her in the 12' of space between her and the curb (8' parking lane + 4' bike lane).
[[b]emphasis mine] This reminds me of some very peculiar courtesy from some runners in the bike lane I've encountered who have actually moved over into the traffic lane to make space for me and my wife. Some have even ventured into the second traffic lane (two traffic lanes each direction plus bike lane). There's a nice sidewalk available, but I guess the asphalt is really that much nicer. <shrug>
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