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Be Careful, Really

Old 05-19-21, 09:14 AM
  #1  
Kabuki12
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Be Careful, Really

I just read about a woman who was killed over the weekend in Colorado while riding with her husband who was with her in a bike lane . Her name was Gwen Inglis , she was a pro champion cyclist (as is her husband). The incident happened during the day and her husband was also a mens champion for the over 50 group. It comes as a reminder to not let our guard down. I love to ride and I am a road cyclist and I am constantly aware of my surroundings , but there are no guarantees . The motorist drifted into the bike lane and hit her , she died at the hospital. He is being investigated for driving under the influence. He claimed he was not texting at the time of the accident, but admitted to drinking and smoking marijuana the night before. The police said there was evidence of impairment . A very sad story and I will pray for her family and friends that must be feeling horrible . Just be careful , please.
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Old 05-19-21, 09:26 AM
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Very tragic. Where i live and ride seems like about 1 in 5 vehicles that pass me smell like Cannabis. Even worse in the San Gabriel Mtns where I can smell meth being smoked along the pullouts. Until these type of homicides are treated like 2nd Degree Murders, there is no deterrence. Cyclists' lives are cheap to the legal system.
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Old 05-19-21, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12 View Post
The motorist drifted into the bike lane and hit her , she died at the hospital. He is being investigated for driving under the influence. Just be careful , please.
I don't think being careful has anything to do with it.
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Old 05-19-21, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
I don't think being careful has anything to do with it.
Yeah. Woman was hit from behind and killed here in Philly a couple of weeks ago. Riding in a bike lane during broad daylight not far from my house. She’ll be remembered during tonight’s Ride of Silence.

Same thing happened to the son of an old friend last year. He had just graduated high school.
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Old 05-19-21, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
Until these type of homicides are treated like 2nd Degree Murders, there is no deterrence.
Quoting as folks need to hear it again.

You know why it's homicide to sell drugs to somebody that dies, but this often isn't treated that way? Doctors, lawyers, politicians, and judges largely don't sell drugs. But they do drive motor vehicles. Not hard to figure out why some of this type of crime isn't treated more harshly but other is.
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Old 05-19-21, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
Until these type of homicides are treated like 2nd Degree Murders, there is no deterrence.
What felony was the driver committing when the death occurred? Death during the commission of a felony is what is required to get a 2nd degree murder conviction in PA.and, I would bet, other states.
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Old 05-19-21, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
What felony was the driver committing when the death occurred? Death during the commission of a felony is what is required to get a 2nd degree murder conviction in PA.and, I would bet, other states.
That is exactly my point! Vehicular manslaughter driving under the influence, (pick your drug(s) of choice) could be legislated by each state for either sentence enhancements or bumping it up to 2nd Degree Murder. If you were evading the police in the commission of any crime and killed someone, it could be prosecuted as a 2nd degree murder.

There are some offenses that are so reckless, and I would include driving under the influence of THC, or other controlled substances as being inclusive, that "drifting over" into a bike lane and killing someone while under the influence qualifies in my view. Laws needs to account for this. However, the corruption at the state level to cash in on legalizing drugs is so egregious, there is slim hope of this ever happening.
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Old 05-19-21, 03:36 PM
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Sad for her family. Particularly her husband who was behind her a bit when this happened.
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Old 05-19-21, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
What felony was the driver committing when the death occurred? Death during the commission of a felony is what is required to get a 2nd degree murder conviction in PA.and, I would bet, other states.
Killing someone dui is vehicular homicide in Colorado, punishable by 4-12 years in prison. If the driver was drunk, this would be a slam dunk as the state wouldn't have to prove the driver was driving recklessly, just that the dui caused the death.

Felony murder is first degree murder in Colorado, but the list of felonies is very specific, and none would apply here.

Second degree murder is knowingly causing the death of another in Colorado. Again, this would probably not apply.
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Old 05-19-21, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
That is exactly my point! Vehicular manslaughter driving under the influence, (pick your drug(s) of choice) could be legislated by each state for either sentence enhancements or bumping it up to 2nd Degree Murder. If you were evading the police in the commission of any crime and killed someone, it could be prosecuted as a 2nd degree murder.

There are some offenses that are so reckless, and I would include driving under the influence of THC, or other controlled substances as being inclusive, that "drifting over" into a bike lane and killing someone while under the influence qualifies in my view. Laws needs to account for this. However, the corruption at the state level to cash in on legalizing drugs is so egregious, there is slim hope of this ever happening.

Pretty sure killing someone while DUI is a felony just about everywhere in the US. And drugs are definitely included. Problem with marijuana is its levels are not easily testable.

You have any evidence that legalization of marijuana is leading to increased vehicle deaths anywhere? Your "corruption" remark is a bit bizarre in this context. States make a lot more money from alcohol.
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Old 05-19-21, 08:44 PM
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i don't get the "corruption" either but i do smell a lot of pot while out riding. i blame the damn Californians that moved here for that.

that aside, i firmly believe that negligent use of a vehicle should be far more punishable that what typically is meted out.
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Old 05-19-21, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
I don't think being careful has anything to do with it.
This is a statement of care for fellow cyclists, not literal. It’s just like someone says, Stay Safe, Take Care, it’s just an expression of value, not a literal warning. All of know that anything can happen at any time.

Just amazed how people get jumped on here where we supposedly should be supporting one another.
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Old 05-19-21, 11:32 PM
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I hope I go out doing what I love.
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Old 05-20-21, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
This is a statement of care for fellow cyclists, not literal. It’s just like someone says, Stay Safe, Take Care, it’s just an expression of value, not a literal warning. All of know that anything can happen at any time.

Just amazed how people get jumped on here where we supposedly should be supporting one another.

The title of this thread is "Be Careful, Really". That sure sounds like an prescription and not just an " expression of value ", whatever that is. Like it or not, people are going to react with some annoyance to anything that smacks of blaming the victim of a dui driver for not being adequately careful.

At least no one is asking if she was wearing a helmet.
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Old 05-20-21, 02:45 AM
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I used to live in El Paso when I was in the military. My riding buddy was a guy who lived in my neighborhood, he was a teacher. We always met up as the gas station down the street at 7am on Saturday mornings. In 2010 I retired and moved back home to DFW. The first Saturday after I had moved he went on a ride alone and was killed by a drunk driver. His wife actually found my number on his phone and called to tell me. I flew back for the funeral. I've always felt horrible because if I had been there to ride with him and we had met up at our spot he wouldn't have have been at that exact spot at that exact moment. I think about that every single day.
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Old 05-20-21, 03:34 AM
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What preventive measures could have been added...just thoughts on safety that I go through after these tragedies...in this case it seems you can only do an evasive maneuver to avoid crash...what things can alert to need for evasive maneuver?

- alert devices- garmin varia? maybe 55 mph too fast for it to work or too much traffic on some roadways
- alert from back rider or vehicle escort- voice, bluetooth headset, horn, etc
- defensive cycling skills- review of how to alert and evade oncoming vehicle, stay alert and distraction free (music, phone, etc), expect the unexpected, scan back mirror on approaching vehicles when riding with traffic, especially 35 mph and above roadways
- rear camera- to document incident in case of hit and run (may prevent bad driver from getting away with it or doing it to someone else)

https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/bicycle-safety

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Old 05-20-21, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Killing someone dui is vehicular homicide in Colorado, punishable by 4-12 years in prison. If the driver was drunk, this would be a slam dunk as the state wouldn't have to prove the driver was driving recklessly, just that the dui caused the death.

Felony murder is first degree murder in Colorado, but the list of felonies is very specific, and none would apply here.

Second degree murder is knowingly causing the death of another in Colorado. Again, this would probably not apply.
My point exactly.
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Old 05-20-21, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
That is exactly my point! Vehicular manslaughter driving under the influence, (pick your drug(s) of choice) could be legislated by each state for either sentence enhancements or bumping it up to 2nd Degree Murder. If you were evading the police in the commission of any crime and killed someone, it could be prosecuted as a 2nd degree murder.

There are some offenses that are so reckless, and I would include driving under the influence of THC, or other controlled substances as being inclusive, that "drifting over" into a bike lane and killing someone while under the influence qualifies in my view. Laws needs to account for this. However, the corruption at the state level to cash in on legalizing drugs is so egregious, there is slim hope of this ever happening.
I knew you wouldn't get my point. I withdraw my question.
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Old 05-20-21, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
The title of this thread is "Be Careful, Really". That sure sounds like an prescription and not just an " expression of value ", whatever that is. Like it or not, people are going to react with some annoyance to anything that smacks of blaming the victim of a dui driver for not being adequately careful.

At least no one is asking if she was wearing a helmet.
I read the OPs statement twice more and there isn’t one word or inference about blaming the victim. To paraphrase, she was riding in a bike lane and was hit. Staying in the bike lane is doing the right thing. You have an obvious bias about victim blaming and are projecting it into this tragic event. She was taking care and was hit. It doesn’t get more simple than that. If you are offended by someone expressing care about not getting hit and killed, ‘Be careful, really,’ its your issue. I hope no one says, Have a good day, because you may interpret that as a prescriptive act too. Woe to those who actually care about you and want you to stay well. None the less, I wish you well.

Feel free to get in the last word because I am done with this thread.
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Old 05-20-21, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
I read the OPs statement twice more and there isn’t one word or inference about blaming the victim. To paraphrase, she was riding in a bike lane and was hit. Staying in the bike lane is doing the right thing. You have an obvious bias about victim blaming and are projecting it into this tragic event. She was taking care and was hit. It doesn’t get more simple than that. If you are offended by someone expressing care about not getting hit and killed, ‘Be careful, really,’ its your issue. I hope no one says, Have a good day, because you may interpret that as a prescriptive act too. Woe to those who actually care about you and want you to stay well. None the less, I wish you well.

Feel free to get in the last word because I am done with this thread.

Pretty sure I'm not the one with a chip on his shoulder in this exchange. If you can't spot the difference between "have a good day" and "be careful, really" in this context, I think it's you who has the bias. By the way, the OP really wasn't jumped on, one poster just pointed out that being "careful" isn't really much of a protection in this situation. You obviously were looking for something to be offended by. Hope you enjoyed it.
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Old 05-20-21, 10:44 AM
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Anyone sharing the road with multi ton vehicles whizzing past you at 45+ mph, is playing Russian Roulette with physics. Doesn't matter how careful you are, or how disciplined drivers are. Humans gonna human, we ain't perfect. All it takes is a second of distraction to end a life.
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Old 05-20-21, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by spelger View Post
i don't get the "corruption" either but i do smell a lot of pot while out riding. i blame the damn Californians that moved here for that.
It's really getting bad here in Michigan. Ever since it was legalized for recreational use, I smell pot nearly every single ride, and I always smell it in our parks.
The other week I was riding my lowracer recumbent, and small sedan REALLY reeking of pot drove by and pulled over to check out my bike. I stopped, but gave him a butt chewing over his pot use while driving. This was also the same park where a cyclist (Dr Horal) was killed by a driver just two years before. The wounds still run deep for us who ride here.

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Old 05-20-21, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BikeLite View Post
scan back mirror on approaching vehicles when riding with traffic, especially 35 mph and above roadways
Great advice here. I use a small helmet mounted mirror on EVERY ride in which public roads are taken. Every car is scanned by me until it moves over the pass. I rely on it so much, I can no longer feel safe riding without it. And with the legalization of pot use in Michigan and the amount drivers distract themselves with lately, I encourage everyone to get a helmet mounted mirror. They may look gaudy at first, almost "old man"ish, but they are truly my best safety accessory.
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Old 05-20-21, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BikeLite View Post
What preventive measures could have been added...just thoughts on safety that I go through after these tragedies...in this case it seems you can only do evasive maneuver to avoid crash...what things can alert to need for evasive maneuver?

- alert devices- garmin varia? maybe 55 mph too fast for it to work or too much traffic on some roadways
I've been using a Varia for about a year now and it is a brilliant safety device. It can easily detect a car at 55 mph or much faster and picks them up from hundreds of metres behind you. It flags up any cars that are going unusually fast in red too so you can give them special attention. It works best in a rural setting where cars come by infrequently, but often at high speed. It would be less useful in an urban setting or very busy road with cars constantly streaming past, but I don't cycle on those sort of roads if I can help it. The rear light is pretty powerful too and can be programmed to flash more rapidly when it detects approaching traffic to help catch the driver's eye.

I wouldn't ride without my Varia now. It's one of those rare expensive gadgets that has easily exceeded my expectations.
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Old 05-20-21, 06:31 PM
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I have heard of these alarms that you guys are talking about but was skeptical to be honest. I may take a closer look. Even with a mirror it is deceiving.
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