Notices
Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

TdF Femmes

Old 07-29-22, 09:59 AM
  #26  
MinnMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,733

Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4258 Post(s)
Liked 2,934 Times in 1,809 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
If the viewership numbered are to be believed, it is a hit. There are some first year/restart issues, but just as entertaining to watch as the men's version.(to me at least)
Interesting. Where are you finding viewership numbers?

I think this is a really excellent beginning (or revival?). It will be a challenge to keep up the momentum from year to year, but one can hope.

I agree with others' comments that the overall level of professionalism across the women's peloton is not yet where it needs to be. I'd like to see the whole peloton with professional contracts and a livable minimum wage.
MinnMan is offline  
Old 07-29-22, 10:12 AM
  #27  
HeyItsSara
Meet me at spin class!!!!
 
HeyItsSara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY
Posts: 379

Bikes: Precor recumbant indoor bike, Stages bike at Equinox gym

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 53 Posts
Originally Posted by gpsblake
My opinion is you just answered your own question. An example is the men's tour de france. Every male in that race is a professional who does nothing but race bikes all year long. With the women, a lot of what you see in this years Femme tour are not full time paid professionals, but hobbyist or part-timers who have to hold down jobs and have to pay for all their expenses.
Right. These women are doctors, moms, etc.
HeyItsSara is offline  
Old 07-29-22, 10:22 AM
  #28  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,755
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3190 Post(s)
Liked 2,460 Times in 1,489 Posts
Originally Posted by MinnMan
Interesting. Where are you finding viewership numbers?

I think this is a really excellent beginning (or revival?). It will be a challenge to keep up the momentum from year to year, but one can hope.

I agree with others' comments that the overall level of professionalism across the women's peloton is not yet where it needs to be. I'd like to see the whole peloton with professional contracts and a livable minimum wage.
The Move podcast with former disgraced cyclist LA is doing a podcast of each stage with 2 former lady pros.(former cyclist, still disgraced) They were quoting numbers on either stage 4s, or stage 5's podcast. LA does way too much product schilling and self bragging, but at least there is some coverage. Stage 5's podcast had the woman that won the 84 edition as a guest. You can find it on the U-tube. I think it's stage 4 with the numbers.


Last edited by seypat; 07-29-22 at 11:15 AM.
seypat is online now  
Old 07-29-22, 10:23 AM
  #29  
HeyItsSara
Meet me at spin class!!!!
 
HeyItsSara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY
Posts: 379

Bikes: Precor recumbant indoor bike, Stages bike at Equinox gym

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 53 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
The Move podcast with former disgraced cyclist LA is doing a podcast of each stage with 2 former lady pros. They were quoting numbers on either stage 4s, or stage 5's podcast. LA does way too much product schilling and self bragging, but at least there is some coverage. Stage 5's podcast had the woman that won the 84 edition as a guest. You can find it on the U-tube.
i GET HIS EMAILS AND WATCH IT EVERY DAY. i REALLY LIKE IT!
HeyItsSara is offline  
Old 07-29-22, 02:57 PM
  #30  
work4bike
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,923
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3742 Post(s)
Liked 1,015 Times in 765 Posts
I'm watching and I'm also watching Lance's WEDU podcast for a little behind the scenes info
work4bike is offline  
Old 07-29-22, 05:34 PM
  #31  
MinnMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,733

Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4258 Post(s)
Liked 2,934 Times in 1,809 Posts
Lanterne Rouge is also doing his 6-8 minute recaps each day. Listening to him is like drinking from a fire house, but I kinda like it.
MinnMan is offline  
Old 07-29-22, 09:16 PM
  #32  
cyclezen
OM boy
 
cyclezen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,340

Bikes: a bunch

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 502 Post(s)
Liked 623 Times in 425 Posts
Watched LA - The Move once... he had Hincapie and some other guy with him , men's TDF ...
a lotta plugs for their sponsors ... but mostly 3 drunk guys BS'ing... I get that they've gone thru all this stuff, without being drunk. LOL (but then I could be misjudging about the 'not being drunk'...)
... if there was content, I mostly missed it...
Ride On
Yuri
cyclezen is offline  
Old 07-29-22, 09:20 PM
  #33  
cyclezen
OM boy
 
cyclezen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,340

Bikes: a bunch

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 502 Post(s)
Liked 623 Times in 425 Posts
Watched Stage 5 & 6 - great stuff !
a lot of learnin goin on. A lot of adrenalin goin on.
couldn't really ask for more.
sadly a big chunk of learnin happens from crashes.
the competition is good.
lookin forward to the learnin in the mountains...
Ride On
Yuri
cyclezen is offline  
Old 07-30-22, 01:47 PM
  #34  
gpsblake
Walmart bike rider
 
gpsblake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,117
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 24 Posts
I think we just saw with Stage 7 why women's races at this point have to be shorter with shorter climbs. If the stages were longer, the time gaps would be just completely ridiculous. If they can get more women who can cycle professionally on a full time basis and the competition level gets closer, then they can make the stages longer.

Stage 8 tomorrow is you might actually see traditonal yellow jersey tactics of following the wheels of your closest competitors.

Very successful Tour de Femmes in my opinion, I hope they can continue it and get it established.
gpsblake is offline  
Old 07-30-22, 01:57 PM
  #35  
brianmcg123
Senior Member
 
brianmcg123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: TN
Posts: 1,286

Bikes: 2013 Trek Madone; 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times in 35 Posts
Ludwig’s win was awesome. I was really pulling for her. I was a huge fan of hers after watching her Cafe Ride with Matt Stephen’s. She’s just so happy.
brianmcg123 is offline  
Old 07-30-22, 02:05 PM
  #36  
DLBroox
Senior Member
 
DLBroox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,010

Bikes: Bianchi San Jose, Dahon Mu Uno, Origami Wasp

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 15 Posts
I agree with the above statements by gpsblake. It’s been fun to watch but you can see where the problems are. It needs refinement.

Once I realized who the winner of the day was I was pretty amazed. I saw that accident in Rio at the Olympics live on TV that day and really thought she got killed right before our eyes! I followed her a bit after to see how she was and she was riding only weeks later…

The women have as much heart and desire as the men. They now need to be supported with real money and sponsorships so we don’t see those horrific crashes we’ve seen this week happen again because of inexperience.
DLBroox is offline  
Old 07-30-22, 02:12 PM
  #37  
MinnMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,733

Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4258 Post(s)
Liked 2,934 Times in 1,809 Posts
Originally Posted by MinnMan

Onward to the mountains. I'm hoping van Vleuten is feeling better and, as Chris Horner would say, puts on a show. When she's healthy, she's the most fearsome climber in the women's peloton.
She was. And she did.

39 y.o.,

Vos, van vleuten. It may be that women peak at a greater age than the men.
MinnMan is offline  
Old 07-30-22, 04:20 PM
  #38  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,800

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6099 Post(s)
Liked 4,730 Times in 3,260 Posts
I don't quite agree about the time gaps and longer stages. Seems like it'd just give more incentive for everyone to train harder so they aren't embarrassed by such large gaps. Or perhaps more women that longer stages and climbing are their specialty will get picked up by the teams.
Iride01 is offline  
Likes For Iride01:
Old 07-30-22, 04:35 PM
  #39  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,949

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Ibis Ripley AF, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 871 Post(s)
Liked 725 Times in 436 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01
I don't quite agree about the time gaps and longer stages. Seems like it'd just give more incentive for everyone to train harder so they aren't embarrassed by such large gaps. Or perhaps more women that longer stages and climbing are their specialty will get picked up by the teams.
You're still missing the point after multiple people have already explained that it's not a question of "incentive," unless that incentive is getting paid and supported, which a large number of women in pro cycling are not. How would more women on pro teams with the same lack of funding make races closer?
surak is offline  
Likes For surak:
Old 07-30-22, 04:55 PM
  #40  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,800

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6099 Post(s)
Liked 4,730 Times in 3,260 Posts
Originally Posted by surak
You're still missing the point after multiple people have already explained that it's not a question of "incentive," unless that incentive is getting paid and supported, which a large number of women in pro cycling are not. How would more women on pro teams with the same lack of funding make races closer?
If it seems just like everyone out for a nice group ride then there won't be many watching for the sponsors to want to dole out more money for.

I don't see where I'm missing the point that women's cycling teams are under funded. Perhaps something should happen to pro-actively require sponsors to divvy up their money between women's and men's sports so it doesn't get so out of proportion. Though it's noticeable that some of the lower sponsors of the men's teams are entirely missing in the women's.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 07-30-22, 05:10 PM
  #41  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,949

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Ibis Ripley AF, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 871 Post(s)
Liked 725 Times in 436 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01
If it seems just like everyone out for a nice group ride then there won't be many watching for the sponsors to want to dole out more money for.
The more you post your armchair hot takes on how to fix women's pro cycling, the more you demonstrate that not only do you not understand the economics of the sport, but that you hardly watch any of it and don't know what you're watching.

Originally Posted by Iride01
I don't see where I'm missing the point that women's cycling teams are under funded. Perhaps something should happen to pro-actively require sponsors to divvy up their money between women's and men's sports so it doesn't get so out of proportion. Though it's noticeable that some of the lower sponsors of the men's teams are entirely missing in the women's.
The health of the sport depends on actual interest leading to race organizers and sponsors getting ROI, not charity. You literally said that pro teams should pick up more riders who can climb faster on longer stage races. Where's that money coming from, and where are they going to find those riders who are training as much as Annemiek Van Vleuten without being paid to do so? There's not even enough money in men's pro cycling.
surak is offline  
Likes For surak:
Old 07-30-22, 06:10 PM
  #42  
cyclezen
OM boy
 
cyclezen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,340

Bikes: a bunch

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 502 Post(s)
Liked 623 Times in 425 Posts
Women's racing is on a cusp. Not too many years ago, much of the racing was a parade, with a few riders who battled it out. Now we have more riders battling it out, with a lot of inexperienced riders and some who might be strong but don;t have the 'competitive' spirit at the level now needed.
If the women want a 'Tour de France' as opposed to the 'Route de France", then it needs to be at the highest level. I can't imagine any of the serious competitors wanting any different.
Same, same as Paris -Roubaix. Those most certainly gave women's racing something to hold high!
TDF Race needs a good TT test...
Sponsors will be attracted if the event/events have notoriety - and I think Women's racing will be nothing but elevated by this TDF Femme.
So, we;ll see tomorrow, how the competitors respond to the thrown glove by AvV... Whether she rides away from them again, I'm hoping some might give her some competitiion.
But it is a bugle call to a new day in women's bike racing...

Ride On
Yuri

Last edited by cyclezen; 07-30-22 at 06:14 PM.
cyclezen is offline  
Likes For cyclezen:
Old 07-30-22, 08:33 PM
  #43  
MinnMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,733

Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4258 Post(s)
Liked 2,934 Times in 1,809 Posts
As several were saying....



this wouldn't happen on the men's tour, and with further development, it will be a thing of the past for the women too.
MinnMan is offline  
Likes For MinnMan:
Old 07-31-22, 09:12 AM
  #44  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,800

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6099 Post(s)
Liked 4,730 Times in 3,260 Posts
Originally Posted by surak
The more you post your armchair hot takes on how to fix women's pro cycling, the more you demonstrate that not only do you not understand the economics of the sport, but that you hardly watch any of it and don't know what you're watching.
I don't think I've posted any fixes for how to fix cycling. I know that I don't have all the understanding of the many things involved. You just seem to take my statements and obvious opinions of what my preferences are as such.

The health of the sport depends on actual interest leading to race organizers and sponsors getting ROI, not charity. You literally said that pro teams should pick up more riders who can climb faster on longer stage races. Where's that money coming from, and where are they going to find those riders who are training as much as Annemiek Van Vleuten without being paid to do so? There's not even enough money in men's pro cycling.
I literally did not say that. I suggested that they might get riders that have the ability. Do they have the budget to do that? Well yes if they get rid of someone else. And along with the fact that once others know that someone else can do something they can't, that they might train harder toward getting better in that area.

Also the health of the sport depends on fans and spectators at the events and viewers for the networks if they want the big dollar money. Sponsors won't sponsor with large amounts if no one is watching.

Despite what you think, I'm impressed with all but the first few stages. Instead of ostracizing me, you should be laying out your arguments why it's better to have shorter race with no time gaps.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 07-31-22, 01:31 PM
  #45  
MinnMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,733

Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4258 Post(s)
Liked 2,934 Times in 1,809 Posts
Nobody is ostracizing you, Iride01 . They are simply disagreeing with you, just as you are disagreeing with them.
You posts clearly reflect that you haven't paid much attention to the women's tour up until now.
It's great that the women's tour has so many new fans.
Watch, enjoy, learn.
MinnMan is offline  
Likes For MinnMan:
Old 07-31-22, 02:16 PM
  #46  
MinnMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,733

Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4258 Post(s)
Liked 2,934 Times in 1,809 Posts
Well - now the TdF-F is over, too. It certainly wasn't dull.
MinnMan is offline  
Old 07-31-22, 03:36 PM
  #47  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,949

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Ibis Ripley AF, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 871 Post(s)
Liked 725 Times in 436 Posts
How about Veronica Ewers finishing so high up on La Super Planche! Fantastic result.

Didn't notice any women falling over on the gravel. Even the camera motorbike men did.

Don't know how accurate the live grade graphic was while AvV was putting a bow on her GC. She was practically levitating when it was showing 20-22%.
surak is offline  
Old 07-31-22, 04:11 PM
  #48  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,800

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6099 Post(s)
Liked 4,730 Times in 3,260 Posts
Originally Posted by MinnMan
Nobody is ostracizing you, Iride01 . They are simply disagreeing with you, just as you are disagreeing with them.
You posts clearly reflect that you haven't paid much attention to the women's tour up until now.
It's great that the women's tour has so many new fans.
Watch, enjoy, learn.
I'd learn more if people would explain why they thought that the stage was too long just because a few riders made a very successful break.

I consider myself open minded to an extent. I'll change it and have many times here on BF if enough people can make convincing arguments. But misrepresenting my statements and interpreting them for more than what they were intended feels much like an attack.

Vos wasn't expected to win. She's more a sprinter just looking at stats. And though she has more points (PCS) than anyone on the podium, those points are spread out over way more years.

I'm just not certain how it made the race less exciting. Were the break riders supposed to wait and try to sprint it out with Vos?

And no, I have not had a chance to watch the final stage yet. I've been out riding and still have other things to do.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 07-31-22, 04:34 PM
  #49  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,949

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Ibis Ripley AF, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 871 Post(s)
Liked 725 Times in 436 Posts
Already looking forward to next year's edition. Thanks Zwift!

Possible changes:
  • Allowing 7 rider teams instead of 6. teams would need to figure out how to field a bigger team when there are an ever-increasing number of races on the calendar, and no magically larger budgets.
  • Having a TT stage. Left out of the first edition due to concern that fewer people would be on the course watching. Obviously TTs would require more equipment for every team. Then there's the issue that there are only a few specialists who have the support for the fastest equipment and aero testing.
  • Increasing the number of stages - unlikely because according to the race director: "at the moment [the teams are] happy with eight days. Even though women’s cycling is evolving the economic model is still fragile and teams aren’t that big either."

Last edited by surak; 07-31-22 at 05:45 PM.
surak is offline  
Old 07-31-22, 05:39 PM
  #50  
MinnMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,733

Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4258 Post(s)
Liked 2,934 Times in 1,809 Posts
Those questions have been answered repeatedly in this thread, from several different points of view. If you don't accept or agree the answers, nobody appointed you the inquisitor with rights to demand more satisfactory responses.

Nobody expected Vos to hold yellow until the end. It was fantastic to see her in yellow early on, just as it was exciting to see MvdP in yellow early in the 2021 TdF. The things that you learned in the last few days aren't that interesting to people who have some background on the matter.

Give it a rest.
MinnMan is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.