PeteHski

I'm in the process of building up my ultimate Gran Fondo / Sportive bike for next season, so thought it would be fun to discuss what that should actually look like.

So here's the basic "design brief" in no particular order:-

1. It has to be a great climber as most of my events involve 2-4k metres of climbing, with often some very steep pitches >20%

2. It has to be comfortable. Local roads are rough and poorly maintained.

3. Handling has to be stable and confidence inspiring on steep descents. Steering doesn't need to be super-quick and definitely not twitchy.

4. Riding position not too aggressive. I'm not very flexible and my position needs to be sustainable for century rides with minimal stops. So not going to be a slammed front end!

5. Gearing needs to cover mountains and rolling hills. Very little flat riding.

6. Aero is not important.

7. Disc brakes only

8. Tubeless tyres only

9. I would prefer something a little different from the mainstream brands, but not a critical factor

10. Cost is not very important. There is no strict budget, but don't want to waste money either.


So here is what I've come up with after a good few weeks of thought:-

Frameset: Open Min.D
Wheelset: Campag Shamal DB, C21
Groupset: Campag Ekar 40T chainring, 9-42T cassette
Bars: 3T Superergo carbon
Stem: 3T Apto Stealth alloy
Tyres: Pirelli Cinturato Velo 32 mm

I think this ticks all my boxes, but what do you guys think?

Maelochs

I think if you like it ... you like it.

I cannot see going to 1x, I would choose off-brand cockpit components because they work just as well for an eighth the price, I tend to be a Shimano fan and would like to try Ultegra 12-speed DI for something like this ...... I might try a frame from Workswell. I just got my Ww-093 (very similar to a Defy) back on the road after rear-wheel failure .... it is not disc but came with a disc option but lacks tire clearance .... but I can get an 800-gram 56-cm frame for $700 or so and opposed to $2000 or whatever.

Also I am Not in favor of the seat mast .... for no good reason, because since I know my dimensions, I could get the right size and not need to worry. Just a silly prejudice on my part. Buy me one (size L please) and I will test it for you.

Quick comparison of the numbers: WW-093 - 56 Min.D- L

Reach 386 385
Stack 590 585
Top Tube 561 569
Head Angle 72.5 72.5
Seat Angle 73.5 72.5
Head Tube 186 184
Chainstay 405 405
BB Type BB30 Evo 386
Considering .... the Min. D seems pretty racy .... a tiny bit lower and longer .... not seeing where it differs a lot from the Defy you already have.

Pretty much any quality endurance frame is going to offer what you want .... the Defy might even be a bit racy. Seems the Min.D has a longish head tuber proportionately and a reasonably high stack, but still pretty racy angles .....

I have 5800 105 with 50-34x11-32 but with Ultegra 12 DI (I might have saved up enough by the time it finally comes available) I could go with 11-34 or maybe look into mechanical plus a wolf's tooth .... if I needed it. (I think to climb a 20% grade I would need a motor, not more gears.)

32-mm tires seems okay .... depends how bad the roads are and where you plan to ride. If you know the roads and think soft-ish 32s are the ticket, you know better than I.

I was interested in Cervelo's Caledonia, but after looking at the numbers and talking to a friend who just got one, that is also a pretty racy endurance frame. Not sure if maybe the trend has moved away from real "endurance" bikes to more like relaxed race bikes.

Seems to me you are already going to build what you like ....

PeteHski

Yeah I'm fairly sure on this build, but also open to suggestions. There are a LOT of bikes that I like and would be happy to own. There is nothing wrong with my Defy really, it's just a bit ordinary if you know what I mean. Not the sort of bike you can get emotionally attached to, which can sometimes be a good thing. But just wanted to build something a bit more personal.

The Cervelo Caledonia was very high on my shortlist. As you say it looks pretty racy, but also possibly a bit over-weight for what I need.

I could certainly save some cash on the cockpit, that's one area I haven't really given a massive amount of thought to yet.

32 mm tyres work well on our roads, but then so do 30 mm. That's something I would chop and change a little, but don't think I would go any wider than 32 and definitely not narrower than 28. I like the Pirelli Cinturatos because they have great puncture resistance for a reasonably fast rolling and supple tyre. Chances of a flat running them tubeless are remote.

Gearing - I'm just going to go for it with 1x. I'm confident the Ekar ratios will work for me and I've always had a soft spot for Campag. I think the Shamal wheels are a no-brainer with Ekar too.

The main difference I see with the Min.D vs Defy frame is a shorter wheelbase and a little less weight. Stack is about 20 mm lower too.

ISP - I can see why they did it with the Min.D and it doesn't bother me. At least it won't ever slip!

You are right that pretty much any endurance frame would work for me. So a lot comes down to the fine details and personal preference. I just like the design of the Min.D. Like the Aethos it's taken a different direction to the more aero race bikes, focusing more on comfort and weight. Speaking of the Aethos, that was on my shortlist too, but the geometry looks a bit too racy for my flexibility (lack of!). The Min.D is about as far as I would want to go in that sense.

Dean V

I wouldn't go 1x for that gearing range.
I do like 1x and have it on my 2019 Defy (46t with 11-34), but for the range you want I would go for a sub compact 46/30 and 11-32.
But it sounds like you have made your mind up so just go for it.

PeteHski

I did think about that and it would be the best 2x option for sure. But I'm not that sensitive to ratio gaps (especially at the lower ratio end) and quite motivated to get rid of front shifting. If it wasn't for Campag coming along with Ekar I would have probably stayed with 2x.

Iride01 

1) Do you need to stay in UCI weight for any competitions you might do? Otherwise light as you can go will make many hills seem like just a rise.

4) I never understand this idea that being inflexible means you have to sit upright. I can't even reach half way down my shins when I am standing. I probably haven't touched my toes since a kid. Yet I find low and less upright positions more comfortable for longer rides. The more upright I sit, the more weight on my butt and hands.

Yesterday I rode with my son on a long ride. Since he's a little out of shape, I had to go slower and put out much less power. And because of that I sat up more. Both my butt and hands were more sore than when I solo that same distance.

PeteHski

There is no need to make UCI weight, but I think it will end up over the limit anyway. It's a size L frame (medium is 870g I think, so I think large will be over 900g) and with the build I had in mind I think it will end up somewhere in the 7-7.5kg range with pedals/cages etc. My Defy is 8.6 kg, so this will be at least 1 kg lighter.

Interesting comments about position. I'm going to experiment a bit with my Defy. The Open Min.D has a 20 mm lower stack, but 5 mm shorter reach than my current bike. So I'm going to try lowering my current position by 20 mm and see how it feels. I don't think I can go much lower than that as I don't use the drops much as it is with my current bike. I'm just trying to be realistic on my position for century rides. I couldn't even touch my toes as a kid without bending my knees. Like you, I can reach about halfway down my shins with my legs straight. I've tried stretching etc, but nothing makes any difference to my limited range of motion. It is what it is. But what little flexibility I do have is at least pain free.

Iride01 

To be clear more clear about bike weight, UCI requires the bike to be at least 6.8kg or about 15 pounds. You can have a heavier bike for sanctioned competitions, but not a lighter bike. But if you aren't ever going to be doing sanctioned competition events, then you can have as light a bike as you care to pay for.

As for position, I feel that many just don't give a aggressive position a chance. It's something you have to get use to.

Getting lower requires some effort on your part. I didn't get lower my first try and like it. However I saw the benefits with energy savings for the long haul rides and just the fact that I could more efficiently transfer power to the pedals. So I worked on getting there.

Biggest factor for me staying low and aero though is my gut. When I have a big gut from my winter slowdown, it's more annoying to be in a more aggressive position. Also long cranks which most people tend to like is more uncomfortable for me. It's a minor reason why I continue to use 165 mm cranks even though I have a 34.5" inseam and am 71" tall.

PeteHski

Yeah I fully understand the UCI minimum weight. I’m just saying I don’t think my build will come in under it. But it will be fairly light.

I agree on relatively short cranks being a good idea. Planning to go with 170 mm (I have an 88 cm inseam). My Defy came with 175 mm cranks, but I would prefer to go shorter. I don’t see any downside.

Still thinking about position. Current setup is a bit conservative, but it works well for fast century rides. Hopefully I can go a bit lower on the front, but don’t want a full-on race position.

mstateglfr 

How did you land on the OPEN frame? They have have good reputation and all, and at the prices they charge they had better, but evens still- what sets the OPEN apart from any number of other options?
Frame look? Personalized color? Brand story?

Whatever the reasons, cool, just curious since I dont see what the reason for that price is. Maybe I missed something...or maybe I simply can't appreciate what is offered.

It's a neat looking frame for sure. The seatpost mast thing is...well I like easily swapped components. The geometry doesn't really shout 'general endurance' to me, but everyone is different. A 6'8 cyclist riding their largest frame is pretty laughable overall. Few 6'5 cyclists ride that stack and reach(my height, so I see what others have).

PeteHski

Great question! It was a combination of things coming together.

Foremost, I really like the design of this frame with its sharp focus on low weight, comfort and a timeless, minimalist aesthetic. It reminds me of Cannondale's Synapse and the Specialized Aethos, both of which were high up on my shortlist. The geometry of the OPEN looks to be on the racy side of endurance, which is what I’m looking for. The frame is also available in a dedicated 1x format without an FD mount, which I quite like given my choice of groupset.

At 6’1” their size L looks like a perfect fit for me, whereas I’m caught between sizes (56-58) on both the Synapse and Aethos. I don’t know why they retained the full Tarmac race geometry on the Aethos, given it’s intended use?

Then there’s availability. My local dealer can get hold of the OPEN frame immediately as they currently have fresh stock in all sizes. The Synapse is not currently available as a frameset over here and the Aethos frameset is £4,500, which makes the OPEN look like a bargain at £3,200! The Aethos looks like better value as a complete build, but I’m not keen on the tubed-only Roval wheels and they are all out of stock anyway. Plus I really want to build this as a 1x and not that sold on electronic shifting for my use.

Another thing that swung me toward the OPEN was that the 2 best independent shops in my local area are both OPEN dealers. The shop I’ve chosen to work with also happens to have one of the best and most experienced bike fitters in the UK and I get a free fit with the full build. One of his fitters also owns an OPEN UP gravel bike and has been very happy with its performance. It does look very sharp I have to say. The shop owner has personally known the guys at OPEN for a long time, which is why he was keen to sell them. So I expect they will stand behind the brand for the sake of their own reputation. In comparison all my local shops stocking the big brands have poor service, right from sales through to service. They are all large shops with mostly inexperienced staff focused on shifting boxes. I've tried them all over the years and they never fail to disappoint!

Finally it’s always nice to have something a bit different to the dozens of mass produced mainstream brand bikes you see everywhere.

PeteHski

On this particular point, the short answer is not a lot! It comes down to the details really and there are many other frames I could be very happy with. It's a bit like choosing skis these days. There are basically no dogs out there anymore, so you pick a model that you think will best suit your needs and there are maybe a dozen or more models that would actually work really well for you.

I think OPEN's usp with this frame is its very minimalist and slightly retro style. Focusing on ride quality and sporty, easy handling. Specialized were obviously having very similar thoughts with the Aethos and the Synapse was perhaps leading the way in this line of thinking.

mstateglfr 

You like the look, like the geometry, and its available now- sounds like a perfect option for you.

Iride01 

Not to be a weight weenie, but have you compared the frameset weights with say maybe an S-Works Roubaix or Aethos?

If you ride long rides, you'll never regret not having to haul 3 to 4 extra pounds along with you.

PeteHski

Well the S-Works Aethos is the lightest frame at 585g, but I presume that doesn't include the seat post
I think the Roubaix is around 900g, but again that probably doesn't include the seat post and the future shock hardware will add a little more weight.
The OPEN Min.d is 870g including the uncut seat mast. The fork is very light too at 335g uncut, similar to the Aethos I think.

So I would expect the OPEN to be within 0.25-0.3kg of the Aethos with the same component build and a little lighter than the Roubaix. It's going to be a lightweight bike for sure, but I'm not aiming for a super-lightweight build. The Shamal DB wheels for example are 1585g but tough and dependable. The Ekar groupset is around 2.4 kg, so very similar to Ultegra Di2 and about 400g lighter than Force eTap. I'll probably go with carbon bars too.

Most of the builds I've seen are in the 7-7.5 kg range. That's light enough for me.

Daniel S

Hi,
Did you end up purchasing the Open Min.d? I saw the frame today and it’s really cool….and available. So I did a search for it here.
D