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Vintage SUZUE & NORMANDY Hub Parts Interchangeability

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Vintage SUZUE & NORMANDY Hub Parts Interchangeability

Old 08-07-22, 04:33 PM
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Vintage SUZUE & NORMANDY Hub Parts Interchangeability

I am building a set of wheels for a late 70's Raleigh Super Grand Prix using all Japanese components. The only Made In Japan hubs I have are some old SUZUE hubs, the rear of which has a solid bolt-on axle.

I thought to swap the axle with one from a mutilated Normandy hub but the QR axle is slightly larger in diameter than the solid axle. I then thought I'd use the cones as well from the Normandy but the ball bearings for the SUZUE are 1/4" diameter and the Normandy are 7/32" diameter.

So, can I use the Normandy axle and cones with the Suzue hub and if yes, which ball bearings should I use, 1/4" or 7/32" ?

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Old 08-07-22, 04:34 PM
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Old 08-07-22, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by branko_76
I am building a set of wheels for a late 70's Raleigh Super Grand Prix using all Japanese components. The only Made In Japan hubs I have are some old SUZUE hubs, the rear of which has a solid bolt on axle.

I thought to swap the axle with one from a mutilated Normandy hub but the QR axle is slightly larger in diameter than the solid axle. I then thought I'd use the cones as well from the Normandy but the ball bearings for the SUZUE are 1/4" diameter and the Normandy are 7/32" diameter.

So, can I use the Normandy axle and cones with the Suzue hub and if yes, which ball bearings should I use, 1/4" or 3/32" ?.

So your rear Normandy hub as how many 7/32" ball bearings?

Sounds like what you might find in a Helicomatic hub(?).
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Old 08-07-22, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd
So your rear Normandy hub as how many 7/32" ball bearings?

Sounds like what you might find in a Helicomatic hub(?).
Yes, 7/32". Will need to count.

Maybe I should double check another Normandy rear just to make sure the size is correct.
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Old 08-07-22, 06:30 PM
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Mystery Solved

The mutilated hub, which looks as though someone grabbed it between the flanges with a pair of channel-lock pliers, had fresh amber colored grease (I only use Park or Phil) and an odd number of bearings, 10 one side and 11 the other, all 7/32". So I'm guessing that "Channel-Lock Man", used what he had on hand.


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Old 08-07-22, 06:32 PM
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Virgin Normandy Rear Hub

Old grease with (9) 1/4" bearings each side

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Old 08-07-22, 06:34 PM
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Notes from a previous restoration....


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Old 08-07-22, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by branko_76
I am building a set of wheels for a late 70's Raleigh Super Grand Prix using all Japanese components. The only Made In Japan hubs I have are some old SUZUE hubs, the rear of which has a solid bolt-on axle.

I thought to swap the axle with one from a mutilated Normandy hub but the QR axle is slightly larger in diameter than the solid axle.

[snip]

So, can I use the Normandy axle and cones with the Suzue hub
.
.
.
Rear QR axles are 10mm, solid are 9.5.

Using a different set of axle+cones in the same hub will likely work, but there are three possible issues:

a) the cone may not fit in the dust-cap - can be too big (won't go at all) or too small (lets grit in);
b) the axle and cones may not fit the frame - in which case you may have to shorten the axle or remove/add spacers; and
c) hub cones and cups are ground[1] to specific curvatures and dimensions such that the line between the two points of contact is at an angle that best supports the expected combination of radial and thrust loads; substitute a cone with a slightly different curve and the angle may change considerably.

[1] Well, not all of them are ground, your Normandy ones are not, they are nasty stamped-and-case-hardened bits of cheap steel. Check them carefully, if unpitted and adjusted correctly (a *tiny* amount of loose play to be taken up when the qr tightens) you can get some use out of them. I bet the Suzue ones are better.
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Old 08-07-22, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by oneclick
Rear QR axles are 10mm, solid are 9.5.

Using a different set of axle+cones in the same hub will likely work, but there are three possible issues:

a) the cone may not fit in the dust-cap - can be too big (won't go at all) or too small (lets grit in);
b) the axle and cones may not fit the frame - in which case you may have to shorten the axle or remove/add spacers; and
c) hub cones and cups are ground[1] to specific curvatures and dimensions such that the line between the two points of contact is at an angle that best supports the expected combination of radial and thrust loads; substitute a cone with a slightly different curve and the angle may change considerably.

[1] Well, not all of them are ground, your Normandy ones are not, they are nasty stamped-and-case-hardened bits of cheap steel. Check them carefully, if unpitted and adjusted correctly (a *tiny* amount of loose play to be taken up when the qr tightens) you can get some use out of them. I bet the Suzue ones are better.
Thank you. You made some points I had not considered such as cone depth and diameter. Will take a closer look at all points of interest
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Old 08-12-22, 08:37 AM
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I tried swapping the QR axle and cones from the Normandy rear to the Suzue but it's not going to work, I'll just leave the solid axle in the Suzue and use it for another project. The Normandy hubs will stay with the Raleigh Super Grand Prix.
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Old 08-12-22, 10:19 AM
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note for anyone seeking axle parts for Maillard produced hubs -

member verktyg has made several highly detailed posts on this topic with fine measurements, drawings and closeup photos

he covers both the ordinary quality axle parts found on Atom, Normandy Sport and Schwinn Approved Maillard built models as well as the higher quality parts on the Luxe Competition model hubs

was surprised to learn there are three differing contours for Luxe Competition model cones

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Last edited by juvela; 08-12-22 at 10:22 AM. Reason: spellin'
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Old 08-12-22, 08:30 PM
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addendum -

forgot to mention above that the Maillard facility in Incheville closed permanently in 1991 so it has now been over thirty year since any Maillard bits produced

enthusiasts need to be creative with their spanner twistin' efforts when it comes to keeping the products in good running order...


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Old 08-13-22, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by branko_76
Mystery Solved

The mutilated hub, which looks as though someone grabbed it between the flanges with a pair of channel-lock pliers, had fresh amber colored grease (I only use Park or Phil) and an odd number of bearings, 10 one side and 11 the other, all 7/32". So I'm guessing that "Channel-Lock Man", used what he had on hand.
This kind of thing is a syndrome I call "Chimps with Tools"
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Old 08-13-22, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by old's'cool
This kind of thing is a syndrome I call "Chimps with Tools"
"Channel-Lock-Man" predates chimps
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Old 08-14-22, 09:13 AM
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Old 09-01-22, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by oneclick
Rear QR axles are 10mm, solid are 9.5.
Did that used to be true? Wheels Mfg sells both types in all sorts of interchangeable dimensions.

https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-axles.html
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Old 09-01-22, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Did that used to be true? Wheels Mfg sells both types in all sorts of interchangeable dimensions.

https://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-axles.html
I have a box of solid axles from different hub manufacturers of the 1970's, I didn't measure them but the rear axles are all slightly smaller than their hollow counterparts
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Old 09-01-22, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by branko_76
I have a box of solid axles from different hub manufacturers of the 1970's, I didn't measure them but the rear axles are all slightly smaller than their hollow counterparts
Yeah, I don't know. I've been swapping in hollow axles on low level bikes for over 10 years.
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