Not sure what brand of 1970's 10 speed I have
12-11-07, 06:21 PM
#51
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...can you tell anything from the Serial Number at all? ...
...I am the original owner of the bike and I know it didn't come from a Sears or JCPenney's type department store, but rather a Sporting Goods Store. I do not believe any components have been switched out, unless unknowingly during the paint job. The reason that I had it painted was this... When I was in college, (1980), in rural Montana, we lived across the street from this German bike manufacturer who did custom paint jobs. We kinda got to know the people and had it done at a very reasonable price. Anyway, it was, and is just a sentimental piece of my history. It's probably worth having it overhauled for that reason alone, since I've already packed it around for 30 years, and it was given to me by my parents for my sweet 16th birthday, on May 16, 1977....
...I am the original owner of the bike and I know it didn't come from a Sears or JCPenney's type department store, but rather a Sporting Goods Store. I do not believe any components have been switched out, unless unknowingly during the paint job. The reason that I had it painted was this... When I was in college, (1980), in rural Montana, we lived across the street from this German bike manufacturer who did custom paint jobs. We kinda got to know the people and had it done at a very reasonable price. Anyway, it was, and is just a sentimental piece of my history. It's probably worth having it overhauled for that reason alone, since I've already packed it around for 30 years, and it was given to me by my parents for my sweet 16th birthday, on May 16, 1977....
It's nice to know that we have a defined date and original components. However, the bicycle could predate the purchase by a several years. The last year of the boom was 1974 and sales plummeted almost 50% in 1975. Nobody had been expecting the bubble to burst and the big orders placed for 1975 gathered dust for a few years on many a showroom floor. To this end, it might be worthwhile to check the date codes on the major components. Check out https://www.vintage-trek.com/component_dates.htm for the location and decyphering of the codes, based on the the component manufacturer.
I'm pretty sure that Iverson was a USA manufacturer.
Well, the one possibility that comes to mind, given that that you thought Iverson was possibility, is Italvega. Furthermore, 1977 would have been right about the time they were were switching production to Japan and changing the name to Univega. A transition period could explain the Japanese parts. Italvega was actually an American owned brand that was manufactured in Italy.
Other full range italian brands that were marketed in the USA at this time were Atala, Atalasienne, Atlantica, Benotto, Bianchi, Bottechia, Camera, Carnielli, Chiorda, Coppi, Corso, Cortina, Doniselli, Frejus, Fiorelli, Garlatti, Legnano, Maserati, Moretti, Torpado, Vanquer, Urago and Veloce. I think this is most of them. There were many other Italian brands, but they were high end.
Given that we are looking at brands with Italian width BB shells, we should not overlook the possibility of Mexican manufacturers brands such as Benotto, Carabella and Windsor.
Last edited by T-Mar; 12-11-07 at 06:27 PM.
12-11-07, 06:30 PM
#52
Prefers Cicero
In this case, I can't provide any clues to the brand, based on the serial number.
It's nice to know that we have a defined date and original components. However, the bicycle could predate the purchase by a several years. The last year of the boom was 1974 and sales plummeted almost 50% in 1975. Nobody had been expecting the bubble to burst and the big orders placed for 1975 gathered dust for a few years on many a showroom floor. To this end, it might be worthwhile to check the date codes on the major components. Check out https://www.vintage-trek.com/component_dates.htm for the location and decyphering of the codes, based on the the component manufacturer.
I'm pretty sure that Iverson was a USA manufacturer.
Wow, that's a bit of a shock. Japanese components on a 1977 model with a italian width BB shell! Are you sure you measured only the shell and did not include the width of the cups?
Well, the one possibility that comes to mind, given that that you thought Iverson was possibility, is Italvega. Furthermore, 1977 would have been right about the time they were were switching production to Japan and changing the name to Univega. A transition period could explain the Japanese parts. Italvega was actually an American owned brand that was manufactured in Italy.
Other full range italian brands that were marketed in the USA at this time were Atala, Atalasienne, Atlantica, Benotto, Bianchi, Bottechia, Camera, Carnielli, Chiorda, Coppi, Corso, Cortina, Doniselli, Frejus, Fiorelli, Garlatti, Legnano, Maserati, Moretti, Torpado, Vanquer, Urago and Veloce. I think this is most of them. There were many other Italian brands, but they were high end.
Given that we are looking at brands with Italian width BB shells, we should not overlook the possibility of Mexican manufacturers brands such as Benotto, Carabella and Windsor.
It's nice to know that we have a defined date and original components. However, the bicycle could predate the purchase by a several years. The last year of the boom was 1974 and sales plummeted almost 50% in 1975. Nobody had been expecting the bubble to burst and the big orders placed for 1975 gathered dust for a few years on many a showroom floor. To this end, it might be worthwhile to check the date codes on the major components. Check out https://www.vintage-trek.com/component_dates.htm for the location and decyphering of the codes, based on the the component manufacturer.
I'm pretty sure that Iverson was a USA manufacturer.
Wow, that's a bit of a shock. Japanese components on a 1977 model with a italian width BB shell! Are you sure you measured only the shell and did not include the width of the cups?
Well, the one possibility that comes to mind, given that that you thought Iverson was possibility, is Italvega. Furthermore, 1977 would have been right about the time they were were switching production to Japan and changing the name to Univega. A transition period could explain the Japanese parts. Italvega was actually an American owned brand that was manufactured in Italy.
Other full range italian brands that were marketed in the USA at this time were Atala, Atalasienne, Atlantica, Benotto, Bianchi, Bottechia, Camera, Carnielli, Chiorda, Coppi, Corso, Cortina, Doniselli, Frejus, Fiorelli, Garlatti, Legnano, Maserati, Moretti, Torpado, Vanquer, Urago and Veloce. I think this is most of them. There were many other Italian brands, but they were high end.
Given that we are looking at brands with Italian width BB shells, we should not overlook the possibility of Mexican manufacturers brands such as Benotto, Carabella and Windsor.
12-11-07, 08:06 PM
#53
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If you want to give them that much credit 
. My memories of Iverson in the 70's were, at $69.95, the absolutely lowest quality piece of trash that you could ever attach two wheels to. They made Huffy and Murray look like quality products in comparison. Sold only out of the forerunners of big box stores and catalog showrooms, they were so bad that I seriously doubt that anyone who bought one stayed in cycling long enough to buy a better, second, bike.
Going back to the pictures, that bike is too good to be an Iverson - at least the ones that were sold in Erie.
. My memories of Iverson in the 70's were, at $69.95, the absolutely lowest quality piece of trash that you could ever attach two wheels to. They made Huffy and Murray look like quality products in comparison. Sold only out of the forerunners of big box stores and catalog showrooms, they were so bad that I seriously doubt that anyone who bought one stayed in cycling long enough to buy a better, second, bike.Going back to the pictures, that bike is too good to be an Iverson - at least the ones that were sold in Erie.
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Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
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Last edited by sykerocker; 12-11-07 at 08:12 PM.
12-11-07, 08:55 PM
#54
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Ok people, I'm SOOO sorry; I messed up. I don't know why I was thinking 16th birthday. My mom found the picture, scanned it and sent it to me this evening. I was TWELVE. So that makes the bike 1973 or, most likely, prior. You are ALL so knowledgeable about all this history! I am going to post that 'ancient' picture. It is still difficult to see any writing on the posts, but now I do remember those decals running the length of the top and front tubes in the fluted area. It seems as though the design was diamond or triangular patterns.
12-11-07, 08:57 PM
#55
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The original, brand new bike in 1973, with the candy red paint, and price tag still attached.
Last edited by thea_vc; 12-11-07 at 09:24 PM.
12-11-07, 09:19 PM
#56
Lanky Lass
You were one happy young lady 
. I suspect that the photo will be enough to get the experts here on the right trail.
East Hill
. I suspect that the photo will be enough to get the experts here on the right trail.East Hill
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12-11-07, 09:42 PM
#57
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Could this possibly be a Sekine? While researching vintage bikes on the web, I came across a picture of the "Sekine Headbadge" and it just looked SO familiar. Mine does not have that, but I am curious, because..... there are two small holes on the front of my bike, where it very well could've been!
https://cansekine.tripod.com/id12.html
SHT model possibly?
https://cansekine.tripod.com/id12.html
SHT model possibly?
Last edited by thea_vc; 12-11-07 at 10:27 PM.
12-11-07, 11:16 PM
#58
Prefers Cicero
When you get a chance to see the actual picture you could also try a magnifying glass - sometimes the resolution if much better than you'd think.
12-11-07, 11:21 PM
#59
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Says the SHT had forged dropouts.
However, the same site offers this info: "SHB: SR cotterless, swaged, aluminum crankset.Shimano Tourney centre-pull brakes. Shimano Tourney large flange hubs with wing nuts (later with quick relaese). Shimano Lark or Eagle derailleurs. Chromed fork tips. Stamped dropouts. Made in Japan."
Which is closer to what you have, except that you have Suntour dérailleurs which are quite a step up from Shimano Lark or Eagle. Although it is possible for supplies to vary through the years, a lot of manufacturers would switch suppliers if one company or the other they usually relied on was out of stock.
However, the same site offers this info: "SHB: SR cotterless, swaged, aluminum crankset.Shimano Tourney centre-pull brakes. Shimano Tourney large flange hubs with wing nuts (later with quick relaese). Shimano Lark or Eagle derailleurs. Chromed fork tips. Stamped dropouts. Made in Japan."
Which is closer to what you have, except that you have Suntour dérailleurs which are quite a step up from Shimano Lark or Eagle. Although it is possible for supplies to vary through the years, a lot of manufacturers would switch suppliers if one company or the other they usually relied on was out of stock.
Last edited by Mos6502; 12-11-07 at 11:27 PM.
12-12-07, 07:02 AM
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That is not a Sekine. They never used tubing like that.
The foil decal on the downtube looks Gitane-ish, and the frame looks european.
Its the use of that tubing and swaged ends that is a puzzler.
The foil decal on the downtube looks Gitane-ish, and the frame looks european.
Its the use of that tubing and swaged ends that is a puzzler.
12-12-07, 08:05 AM
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I concur, it is not a Sekine. During that period, I was selling Sekine and I don't recall any with fluted tubing or crimped stay ends. The low end models also did not have had chrome fork and stay ends. Of course that was a long time ago, but still the serial number isn't correct for a Sekine from that period and the bottom bracket would not be 70mm wide.
12-12-07, 09:21 AM
#62
Prefers Cicero
12-12-07, 09:29 AM
#63
Prefers Cicero
Here's a link to Gitane catalogues of that era:
https://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/ma..._itemId=255028
https://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/ma..._itemId=255028
12-12-07, 01:09 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by Cooker: "Wow - your mother is great. Not many women who gave birth in 1961 (or men of the same age) can scan and email a picture in 2007."
Ya, she's pretty great! I have awesome parents!
Ya, she's pretty great! I have awesome parents!
Last edited by thea_vc; 12-14-07 at 02:29 PM.
12-12-07, 05:25 PM
#65
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Today I've been trying to find date codes on major component parts, according to "Check out https://www.vintage-trek.com/component_dates.htm for the location and decyphering of the codes, based on the the component manufacturer." So far, I'm not having any luck...
12-12-07, 06:04 PM
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T-Mar is a VERY knowledgeable (sp?) guy who helped me tremendously when it came to identifying my Fuji, as well as trying to set up a Fuji serial number database. Essentially, he totally ROCKS!1:-D Anyway, just from looking at the pics, it kind of looks like my Fuji! If so....what a lucky person you are! I love my Fuji!
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12-12-07, 06:05 PM
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12-13-07, 09:33 AM
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A date of 1973 makes more sense, given the frame attributes, however it causes even more puzzlement over the bottom bracket width. It would be extremely rare to have an Italian brand with Japanese components during the peak year of the boom. I can think of three possible situations for this:
1, It is actually of Mexican origin, as they also used Italian bicycle standards.
2. It is US brand, with the frame contract manufactured in Italy but assembled in the US.
3. As per 2 above, but being a house brand for a large shop.
To this end, do you remember the city and name of the shop?
Are you having problems finding the component date codes or decyphering them?
While the picture does not help me in identifying the brand, I want to thank you and your mother for posting it. It brought back memories of my own birthday bicycle, how much it meant to me and how great my own parents were.
1, It is actually of Mexican origin, as they also used Italian bicycle standards.
2. It is US brand, with the frame contract manufactured in Italy but assembled in the US.
3. As per 2 above, but being a house brand for a large shop.
To this end, do you remember the city and name of the shop?
Are you having problems finding the component date codes or decyphering them?
While the picture does not help me in identifying the brand, I want to thank you and your mother for posting it. It brought back memories of my own birthday bicycle, how much it meant to me and how great my own parents were.
12-13-07, 02:14 PM
#69
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T-Mar: That's awesome that you have those same feelings, and can relate to it. I guess I'm just a sentimental person, and that's why I've hung on to this bike for so many years.
Anyway, yes, I am having a very difficult time finding ANY component dates; I see none what-so-ever. I did remove the seat post, and one of the SunTour brackets, but there's nothing. As far as taking anything else apart, I'm afraid that I won't get it back together correctly. I've taken a flashlight and tried peering behind different parts, and I just can't see any letters or numbers anywhere.
The store where the bike was purchased was in Havre, Montana, and I believe it was a family owned sporting goods store that carried ski's, bikes, and the sort. My parents may remember the name of the store, but they have long been out of business.
I believe I measured the bottom bracket correctly, but I will check it again. I just measured the painted portion of the bracket, excluding the metal parts connected to the ends.
Anyway, yes, I am having a very difficult time finding ANY component dates; I see none what-so-ever. I did remove the seat post, and one of the SunTour brackets, but there's nothing. As far as taking anything else apart, I'm afraid that I won't get it back together correctly. I've taken a flashlight and tried peering behind different parts, and I just can't see any letters or numbers anywhere.
The store where the bike was purchased was in Havre, Montana, and I believe it was a family owned sporting goods store that carried ski's, bikes, and the sort. My parents may remember the name of the store, but they have long been out of business.
I believe I measured the bottom bracket correctly, but I will check it again. I just measured the painted portion of the bracket, excluding the metal parts connected to the ends.
12-14-07, 09:01 AM
#71
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Anyway, yes, I am having a very difficult time finding ANY component dates; I see none what-so-ever. I did remove the seat post, and one of the SunTour brackets, but there's nothing. As far as taking anything else apart, I'm afraid that I won't get it back together correctly. I've taken a flashlight and tried peering behind different parts, and I just can't see any letters or numbers anywhere..
Of course, what you really need to do next year, on your birthday, is restage the photo. Having 35 year, "then and now" photos would be so cool. OK, maybe it would only have been "cool" in 1973. I'm not sure what the relevant terminology is these days.
If you still have family or friends in Havre, there is one other long shot. Sometimes, public libraries keep old phone books. If so, there might be Yellow Pages ads for the bicycles shops and they may list the brands carried.
Yes, that is the correct method.
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12-14-07, 09:17 AM
#72
Lanky Lass
.East Hill
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12-17-07, 10:07 AM
#73
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I'm definitely going to go to the Library in Havre when I'm up there for Christmas. If I don't find anything there, then I will search e-Bay. I love solving mysteries! LOL
12-17-07, 10:10 AM
#74
Lanky Lass
East Hill
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12-17-07, 10:15 AM
#75
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T-Mar: Of course, what you really need to do next year, on your birthday, is restage the photo. Having 35 year, "then and now" photos would be so cool. OK, maybe it would only have been "cool" in 1973. I'm not sure what the relevant terminology is these days. "
Thea: Haha! I will definitely have to do that; what a great idea! It would be very "cool", or as they seem to say these days..... "that would be so SICK". LOL
T-Mar: It was a long shot, but the reason I asked is that some of the bigger shops placed classified ads in the bicycling magazines. Often these ads named the brands that the store carried. I went through my stash from that period and could only find one Montana bicycle shop, Braxton's in Missoula.
Thea: I am definitely going to check out the Havre Library when I'm up there for Christmas! I will look for the old phone books. I also lived in Missoula (in fact that's where I had the bike painted) and recall the Braxton name. What was the address?
"Thea: Haha! I will definitely have to do that; what a great idea! It would be very "cool", or as they seem to say these days..... "that would be so SICK". LOL
T-Mar: It was a long shot, but the reason I asked is that some of the bigger shops placed classified ads in the bicycling magazines. Often these ads named the brands that the store carried. I went through my stash from that period and could only find one Montana bicycle shop, Braxton's in Missoula.
Thea: I am definitely going to check out the Havre Library when I'm up there for Christmas! I will look for the old phone books. I also lived in Missoula (in fact that's where I had the bike painted) and recall the Braxton name. What was the address?