Elbeinlaw

I'm going to be upgrading my old BF NWT of uncertain provenance to a brand new one. I was thinking about the Diamond Llama. Can anyone tell me what their experiences have been with one of the Llamas? I'm particularly interested in the one with external front and rear gear clusters, 21 or 24 speed. (No more IGHs for me!)

Pinigis 

What made you give up on the IGH?

Elbeinlaw

It's not because there's anything inherent to the IGH. I really don't want to debate IGH or not-IGH. I know that the debate about them is pretty much a debate like Ford/Chevy and gasoline/diesel. I don't have any objection to them. My problem is with my particular IGH. My question is about the BF Llamas.

But to answer your question, hoping we don't go down a rabbit trail: on my old New World Tourist, the rear "gear changer box" (a.k.a. "gear box" and "that damn thing there") appeared to disintegrate on a ride. This bike is probably 10 years old. In that time, the manufacturer of the IGH is no longer making it. There are absolutely no replacement parts that I could find. The way it's engineered--particularly on a BF that is made to be folded, stamped and mutilated--the rear gear box is hanging out there in the wind, asking to be smacked. If that little plastic thing breaks, it's going to cost me lots of money to replace the whole drive train or the hub and so forth. I'd rather spend the money now, on a new bike with a better more traditional derailleur design that I understand and for which the parts are replaceable and substitutable (if that's a word).

I've got the old BF working now. But as soon as I can get a replacement, I'm done with this bike. So: Does anyone have any experience with the new BF touring or road models, particularly the Llamas?

rhenning

My wife had a Pocket Crusoe that was stolen when it was about 10 years old while we were in Arizona at a Bike Camp. I called Bike Friday the next Monday morning and we got her new bike the next Monday, It was built to the same specifications as her original bike which BF had on file. The only drive train that changed were the models of derailleurs that were no longer made. I really think you need to be talking to BF about this and find out what they can do for you. Talking about this on Forums will not get you correct answers to your question. Express your concerns and worries to them and build the bike you want. The phone call is free and to me anyway they have never high pressured me to do anything and always given me sound rational advice. I am the proud owner of Pocket Rocket number 2. Roger

rhenning

As long as I brought it up I thought I would post some pictures of my early Pocket Rocket. It has had a few changes with up grades in various components. Roger

seat_boy

My Crusoe came with a 3x9 setup. It's a hassle when the chain falls off the front rings while folding. I switched to a 1x setup (I had no need for the smaller chainrings for my flat terrain), but the chain still comes off at times.

If I was spec'ing a new bike, I would try a 1x setup with a clutch rear derailer and a narrow wide chainring, if I could find one big enough. I'm not sure if anyone makes NW rings that big, though (update: a two second search on ebay found several)

Why choose the Diamond Llama over another NWT? I love the way the Diamond Llama looks, but I would worry about it being too stiff for me. My Crusoe is really lively and fun.

Elbeinlaw

We've miscommunicated somewhere along the line, Roger. There isn't anything I want to consult Bike Friday on. And I don't have concerns of any kind. I just want to know what peoples' experiences are with the new Bike Friday models.

I'm glad for you that you found happiness with your new BF. I'm sure I will too, once I identify the right model.

Elbeinlaw

I'm not worried about that, because I don't plan on ever folding it. But thanks for letting me know in case I ever do. I bought it initially because I needed the low bar--if they made a compact bike that didn't fold, I'd buy it. I discovered in buying and riding a new one through Covid that it's a really fun bike, and great for my urban environment.

I have to confess that I don't know what a "clutch rear derailer" is, or a "narrow wide chainring." Can you explain?

Why choose the Diamond Llama over another NWT? I love the way the Diamond Llama looks, but I would worry about it being too stiff for me. My Crusoe is really lively and fun.[/QUOTE]

One more question before I answer: what do you mean by "too stiff"?

The NWT is fine and I could easily order a new one. What appealed to me about the Diamond Lama was that it's set up for slightly rough travel. My urban rides are pretty rough. We don't have bike lanes, so I'm constantly having to ride over curbs, potholes, broken pavement and sidewalks, etc. A bit of a stronger frame is not a bad thing at all. And I like the way it looks.

rhenning

Let me clarify if I can. The bikes are made in the same place as they have been since the beginning Eugene Oregon. The staff has changed over the years but that is true of any business. Their business model has stayed the same all these years. The methods of the business are the same as always and they produce a great product. You have 2 posts going on this forum asking the same question. If you are really concerned you could go to Eugene and see how it is being done. I have spent 4 one week (2005 to 2009) bike camps with the Bike Friday group at 4 different camps in Arizona Run by Lon Haldeman and his wife Susan Notorangelo. Its seems to me your posts were like trolling for something and I do not think you will find it. Again I think you need to put your concerns and worries at the source. This is a good forum but there are not hundred of Bike Friday owners here. There is a Bike Friday chat group which I do not have the address for but you should be able to find it easily enough. They could maybe give you more feed back. Roger

linberl

You'll find folks who have the redesigned Llamas on BF Facebook page, a lot more than you will here. https://www.facebook.com/groups/bike...d=177147215204 Also some on the BF Yak as well.
Let me know if you need the link for that.

And, yes, if you want to jump curbs and do some offroadish stuff, you want the Llama. Plenty of folks on FB page can share their experience with you (given it's a fairly new model, but the diamond frame "heavy rider" option they previously offered is basically the same).

seat_boy

The clutch rear derailer and NW chainrings are both methods to keep the chain from bouncing off the front chainring (and slapping on the chainstay). These are normal parts for mountain biking now, but I think they could also help with the folding of the BF. If you're not folding, don't worry about it.

"Too stiff" is just that, too stiff. A bike that flexes the right amount has a really nice feel when you ride it, whereas a bike that's too stiff is like pushing up against a concrete wall--you can expend a lot of effort, but it's not going anywhere fast.

One more question before I answer: what do you mean by "too stiff"?

The NWT is fine and I could easily order a new one. What appealed to me about the Diamond Lama was that it's set up for slightly rough travel. My urban rides are pretty rough. We don't have bike lanes, so I'm constantly having to ride over curbs, potholes, broken pavement and sidewalks, etc. A bit of a stronger frame is not a bad thing at all. And I like the way it looks.[/QUOTE]

gdlerner

Hi what exactly do you want to know,I use to have a NWT after I got a normal Llama I used for two years and just 2 months ago I got my new Llama diamond frame.Normally my plans were to tested in Argentina but because of covid no trip this year,I just been riding around and I love it

Elbeinlaw

GGLerner: The picture is Holland?

I guess I'd be interested in hearing any of your comments--positive and negative--about the comparison between NWT and DL.

Also--different question--what are those handlebars? Are they the stock BF with added Ergon-type grips?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

gdlerner

Elbeinlaw the picture is in Germany.To compare both frames.... no so easy for me is better or I like more the Llama the button bracket is high,I can use wide tires if I want actually I am using 1,75..and of course I like the diamond frame as you can see I can mount a small frame bag ,easy to carry too and I think the frame is more strong and rigid.I bough the frame with out folding mast I think if you are not always fold the bike is much better for packing in the suitcase. The handlebars are nothing special I don t remember where I bought them but I am using Ergon grips.I just bought the frame and changed most of the parts from my normal Llama to the new one.I am using Avid Mechanical disc Brakes and Rohloff gears , chainring with 52 T and cock 15t, Schwalbe tires
Hope I could help you a little be