steelbikeguy

8 speed chains work well for me too. Sachs PC-48, specifically, but these were purchased a while ago.
I do still have a Raleigh International with the original chain that is running a SunTour 5 speed freewheel. The shifting is not as good as the bikes with the PC-48, but I sorta enjoy the truly authentic shifting of the older bushed chain.

Are old bushed chains really selling for a lot?? Maybe I need to look at my stash and see if a couple need to go to a new home.

Steve in Peoria

ThermionicScott 

Newer chains are more laterally flexible, and that works great with modern (slant-parallelogram) read derailleurs with a small chain gap. I've read complaints about older derailleurs (with a larger chain gap) not shifting as well with modern chains because the chain can "snake over" farther to the side before it is compelled to shift to the next cog.

So I'm idly curious if a 3/32" singlespeed chain, meant to be less laterally flexible, might be better suited for those older derailleurs. If someone has tried this and has positive or negative things to report, I'd be interested to learn!

verktyg 

Roller chain drives are very efficient at transmitting power. Their use on bicycles goes back to the 1880's.

"Standard" Chain Widths YMMV, especially since chains are low tech components with wide open manufacturing tolerances but here goes:

Multi speed chains, from 5 to 8 speeds have an inner width of 3/32 (2.38 mm).
Multi speed chains from 9 to 12 speeds have an inner width of 11/128 (2.18 mm).

Outside width of the links:

5 & 6 speed – 7.8 mm (5/16 in) (all brands)
7 speed – 7.3 mm (9/32 in) (Shimano HG), 7.1 mm (9/32 in) (SRAM, Shimano IG)
8 speed – 7.3 mm (9/32 in) (Shimano HG), 7.1 mm (9/32 in) (SRAM, Shimano IG)
9 speed – 6.6 to 6.8 mm (1/4 to 9/32 in) (all brands)
10 speed - 6.2 mm (1/4 in) (Shimano, Campy), 5.88 mm (7/32 in) (Campy, KMC)

A chain rated for 6-7-8 tooth freewheels will work fine on 5 speed setups.

Mid priced chains from suppliers such as SRAM and KMC are more than adequate for most bikes. Chains are consumable wear items. The life expectancy is 3000 to 6000 miles so spending large sums of money on a bike chain is pure vanity and/or something else.

Spending $30+ to ~$60 for a Shimano chain is pure nonsense! It's going to wear out just as fast as say a $15 SRAM PC850 6-7-8 Speed chain! They will both work the same!

"A fool and his money are soon parted!" Did I just say that?

To head off arguments about chain life, who amongst you naysayers has access to a testing lab or mobile test equipment to verify their claims that a more expensive chain is going to shift better or last longer than a high quality mid range chain... Anecdotal claims are not scientific: N=???

verktyg

steelbikeguy

a question similar to this came up on the Classic Rendezvous list a while back. I have a bike with the old bushed chain and a few with the newer bushingless chains (PC-48), so it wasn't too hard to take photos to illustrate the flex of each chain.

I started with each derailleur adjusted to the chain was centered on a sprocket. Then I just moved the shift lever forward, allowing the derailleur spring to push the chain to the right as much as it could. The stiffer bushed chain didn't move as much as the more flexible bushingless chain.

Here's the shot of the bushed chain (i.e. a Raleigh International with the original chain, with a 13-24 five speed freewheel and a Campy Nuovo Record derailleur). The rivets protruding from the sides of the links are clear indication of the older bushed chain:



Here's the shot of the newer Sachs PC-48 bushingless 8 speed chain (a Raleigh Team with a regular space 6 speed SunTour 13-24 freewheel and a Campy Super Record derailleur). As can be seen, the chain flexes quite a bit further. This means that when you are trying to move that chain over to the next cog, it's going to flex quite a bit further before it starts moving.


of course, the 8 speed chain has more bevels and other features that make it happier to just hop onto that next cog. As such, it needs less force to get it onto that cog, and with less force, less flex will occur.
IMHO, the 8 speed provides better shifting even with the greater flex. For what it's worth, I just rode the International 73 miles today with no problems. The shifting isn't bad, but it is slower and different.

Steve in Peoria

verktyg 

Back at the end of 2007 I picked up 2 barn bikes, an all original 1967 Peugeot PX-10 and a 1969 Gitane Tour de France. The old Sedis chain on the PX-10 was worn so I replaced it with a then new SRAM PC48 laterally flexible bushingless chain. The freewheel teeth were in good shape, so was the Simplex Criterium RD. The PC48 chain would not shift well with the old freewheel.

The Gitane TdF had a later replacement FW and it worked fine with a PC48 chain.

I had some old Sedis chains from the 70's so I put one of those on and voilà it worked perfect! What I concluded was the pins on the older chains extended past the side plates and the sprockets on the older FWs picked them up faster than the newer flat sided chains with flush pins.



Old early 70's Sedis chain with long pins



Original SedisSport chain from the late 70's. The pins are almost flush.



Original vs. 2nd Generation SedisSport chains.



SRAM PC48 Chain which was a modified 2nd generation SedisSport. The side plates are chamfered on both the inside and out. Pins are almost flush.



When SRAM brought out the PC8xx series chains they adopted the flared side plates that Shimano had been using since 1976.

1976 Shimano 600 Uniglide chain. These were a game changer until the SedisSport chains came out.

Top view of a Shimano chain. Most derailleur chains made today have these flared side plates.



ThermionicScott I'm not sure how much lateral flexibility has to do with it. A sideways flexible chain will shift easier when there is more crossover - larger sprockets with the large chainring and vice-versa with the smaller cogs. A worn upper pulley with a lot of angular slop will have much more effect.

Without laterally flexible chains freewheels and cassettes over 6 speeds would be a bear to shift much less index.

verktyg

Bad Lag

For better or worse, I ordered one of these: KMC X8.99/X8 Bicycle Chain (1/2 x 3/32-Inch, 116L, Silver). Perhaps I should order a different one, of some other type, in case this one just rots.

I was thinking that if the chain is too flexible, you'd have to over-shift more (over-compensate for that flexibility) and then correct the chain line after the shift is made. <--- this is bad.

I have always had good luck with Regina Oro chains but cannot bring myself to spend $150 for a chain. At that price, they are over-priced. Amazon did not have Regina or Sedis. I checked.

arex

Gebhardt chainrings, from the Czech Republic. I got some 3/32 144BCD rings from a German eBay seller. They appear to be very high quality, but they aren't all that pretty.

https://custom-junkies.com/gebhardt-...lver-144mm-bcd

Bad Lag

They look nice. What's not clear to me from the web site is how I order inner and outer rings.

Classtime 

Does it matter if there are no ramps?

52telecaster

Very cool. The shipping is a killer but still ....

Germany_chris

The countersink for the chainring bolts as well where the teeth sit relative to ring itself

Bad Lag

The placement of the little stud relative to the counter sinks is what got me wondering about this. I believe the stud is supposed to prevent trapping the chain against the crank arm. As shown, it looks like an outer ring.

If the stud were removable, it might be usable as an inner ring. Are the inner and outer counter sinks the same or at least compatible?

Bad Lag

Still, nothing is a bigger killer than not being able to ride because components are worn out.

I don't ebay at all and there are very few 144 BCD options available out there. Because there may be none next time I need them, I was thinking of buying a spare set to have on hand.

Even with that shipping the price isn't too bad given that Regina chains are selling for $150 and Campagnolo chainrings are over $100 each, if you can find them.

52telecaster

Agreed. I've been looking at peter whites site for these rings in the t.a. version. Eye watering price but I have two 144 cranks and want to use at least one of them.

steelbikeguy

I've bought various TA rings from Peter White, as well as SON dynamo hubs, and never had any regrets. The TA stuff is very high quality and will last as long the Campy rings did/do. Peter White is a good guy too.

Steve in Peoria

52telecaster

Same here. I also love that you call and someone actually answers the phone. I usually get my cyclotourist rings from them.

Germany_chris

That ring is an outer, the countersinks on the inner on the other side of the ring.

====

I buy all TA junk from TA whether chainrings or cranks, maybe it just because I want to navigate a French only website or maybe I just like to look through as see all the stuff. I will say my last order is going to take almost a week to ship.

mech986 

The Eroica California Festival Swap Meet had lots of vendors with Campagnolo, Sugino, and SR 144 bcd rings, both used and new, for sale at reasonable and sometime very nice prices depending on Teeth number and condition. I picked up a pair of Campagnolo triples complete with all rings for some very favorable prices so there were some bargains to be had as well. The East Whittier swap also has some similar vendors too so the parts are out there. The other is to put up a WTB in the C&V Sales and see what shows up. I suspect most of us have more rings than we’ll ever use in a lifetime.

Let me know if there’s something specific you need.

ehcoplex 

Having just acquired a '79 Holdsworth with Campy NR cranks this is an interesting thread. I'm hoping to keep the cranks with this build, but my local terrain is such that I need low gearing. I'm back and forth between a 2x7 setup with the biggest rear cog the Cyclone II can handle, or triplizing. I triplized the Stronglight 93 on my PX-10 and just flipped what was the 45T inner ring to use as the outer for a half-step + granny (45/42/30 x 13-28) and I really like this setup. Was kind of hoping to do the same with the Holdsworth. But was I just lucky that flipping the inner chainring to use for the outer has worked well? Does that usually not work? Does a 144 BCD 45t outer chainring even exist....?

52telecaster

Just try it. I've had good luck flipping rings but it doesn't always work. I have a 45 that I use as an outside ring and it works on a campy 144.

52telecaster

Also I sure wish the 144 triplizers we're still available.

ehcoplex 

Wait.... they aren't? They're still listed on the Red Clover site...

ehcoplex 

That's very good to hear!

52telecaster

The only options are 0 and -1

sd5782 

I bought a vintage TA tripilizer at a bike swap to perhaps use on one of my 144s. Closer inspection revealed it to be a 135 bcd 42t chainring tripilizer. Oh well.