School me on Shimano hardware
#51
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Thanks. That's the kind of thing I'm trying to figure out. Despite what some of the snobbish posters here are saying, I did go to the Shimano site first. And reading it, there is very little difference described between Sora, Claris and Tiagra. As pointed out, the biggest difference, or at least most notable, seems to be the number of speeds.
But I guess the real problem, at least for me, is that I rarely buy new. So that is a whole different issue when comparing Sora of 2010 to today's products (Oh! There's another one of those issues my betters didn't even consider!!! )
But I guess the real problem, at least for me, is that I rarely buy new. So that is a whole different issue when comparing Sora of 2010 to today's products (Oh! There's another one of those issues my betters didn't even consider!!! )
That said, I am confident that today's Sora or Tiagra is going to be better than that of 5-10 years ago, as the newer developments at the higher end tend to trickle down.
#52
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Yeah, so this is going to be complicated enough it may need to be addressed on a case-by-case basis. When you are dealing with used, not only do you have to consider which "generation" groupset you have, but you will also have to consider how worn out the components are. Traditionally, the higher end groups would be more durable, but I question whether that matters much anymore.
That said, I am confident that today's Sora or Tiagra is going to be better than that of 5-10 years ago, as the newer developments at the higher end tend to trickle down.
That said, I am confident that today's Sora or Tiagra is going to be better than that of 5-10 years ago, as the newer developments at the higher end tend to trickle down.
And because I'm not an ass, I will admit I could have been a little more specific about older Shimano components. I'm going to go back now and edit my original post to reflect older components.
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Ya, I'm wondering about that too. Like I said, I have a couple bikes with Sora and Claris on them now, but they're older bikes. When I look those models up on the Shimano site, what comes up now doesn't look like the hardware on my bikes, which are about 10-15 years old. Yet another problem with trying to source information from the manufacturer's site. Their information on legacy components is much more limited.
And because I'm not an ass, I will admit I could have been a little more specific about older Shimano components. I'm going to go back now and edit my original post to reflect older components.
And because I'm not an ass, I will admit I could have been a little more specific about older Shimano components. I'm going to go back now and edit my original post to reflect older components.
#54
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If you're going to be pedantic, you need to be correct; flounder is an intransitive verb in this form. seypat 's usage is just fine.
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Then you wouldn't have anything to complain about, now would you? Part of the reason I make posts is because this is aninteractive forum. The sharing of knowledge and ideas. You think I'm the only one now or in the future that's going to have these questions?
Not just that, but I'm asking for personal experiences. Not just marketing schtick. Something a couple of posters here hasn't picked up on. (ya, ya, I know. Preposition. Get over it.)
Not just that, but I'm asking for personal experiences. Not just marketing schtick. Something a couple of posters here hasn't picked up on. (ya, ya, I know. Preposition. Get over it.)
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#59
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(Posted earlier; easy to find.)
Shimano improves each line across generations. For example, the current 105 line is better than old/ancient lines. Shimano also moves features to lower lines (so the current Tiaga might be better than old 105).
105 is the "bottom" of the "better" lines. Outside of number of gears (and electronic shifting), there's there's not much of a benefit to picking a line higher than 105.
If you don't like how the lever works, it seems like you shouldn't be much interested in it. It might have been done that way to save some manufacturing costs.
Last edited by njkayaker; 06-23-22 at 02:36 PM.
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#63
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Use Sora for a while and you'll notice a difference. But to notice a difference you must also use or have used past tense 105 Ult or DA.
105 Ult or DA are also much more reliable mechanically and less prone to breaking down while you're out on the road.
Number of speeds isn't really the differentiator.
105 Ult or DA are also much more reliable mechanically and less prone to breaking down while you're out on the road.
Number of speeds isn't really the differentiator.
Excellent link! Thank you very much. This is pretty much what I was asking.
Not my experience.
I don't know. I haven't noticed a functional difference between the bikes I have that have Sora versus the ones that have 105, so I assume the difference is either weight or number of gears. Is that about right? As said above, I like the kind that has both up and down levers together, but I don't know if that's a specific model or maybe a generation of components.
Ya. Thanks.
So based on just a cursory review of this link, the difference between Sora, Tiagra and Claris is the number of speeds? Is that correct?
Not my experience.
I don't know. I haven't noticed a functional difference between the bikes I have that have Sora versus the ones that have 105, so I assume the difference is either weight or number of gears. Is that about right? As said above, I like the kind that has both up and down levers together, but I don't know if that's a specific model or maybe a generation of components.
Ya. Thanks.
So based on just a cursory review of this link, the difference between Sora, Tiagra and Claris is the number of speeds? Is that correct?
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#65
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Shimano typically updates/changes their product line every 4 years, give or take a year. So your components are probably 2 generations old. If you want to replace them with the same exact items you may have to scour scambay for parts, which can be done but is a hassle. The newer ones are likely better anyway.
I have no loyalty to the older generation, especially with the knob type shifter thingy. In fact, I don't much care for it and I'm constantly shopping CL for cheap old bikes I can rob for parts. I did that recently with a Scott I picked up. Swapped the shifters between the Scott and one of my Trek WSDs.
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buy...-need-to-know/
(Posted earlier; easy to find.)
Shimano improves each line across generations. For example, the current 105 line is better than old/ancient lines. Shimano also moves features to lower lines (so the current Tiaga might be better than old 105).
105 is the "bottom" of the "better" lines. Outside of number of gears (and electronic shifting), there's there's not much of a benefit to picking a line higher than 105.
If you don't like how the lever works, it seems like you shouldn't be much interested in it. It might have been done that way to save some manufacturing costs.
(Posted earlier; easy to find.)
Shimano improves each line across generations. For example, the current 105 line is better than old/ancient lines. Shimano also moves features to lower lines (so the current Tiaga might be better than old 105).
105 is the "bottom" of the "better" lines. Outside of number of gears (and electronic shifting), there's there's not much of a benefit to picking a line higher than 105.
If you don't like how the lever works, it seems like you shouldn't be much interested in it. It might have been done that way to save some manufacturing costs.
You just explained it yourself. Now let's see if you get it.
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Something that hasn't been mentioned. You must match the shifters with the RD and chainrings. At least for number of speeds. That's not even in stone either. Some Shimano will not work with other Shimano. It gets complicated.
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#69
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#70
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I spend a lot of years working in the engineering field, so I'm pretty mechanical. I'm not afraid to do my own work. But bikes are still a new platform for me. Learning a lot, fast.
Of course I do. The question is, are you too smart to figure out what I said?
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Ya, that's something I struggle with. How to know how many gears a shifter is designed for. I have seen advertisements for 8, 9, 10 and as many as 11 speeds. I have to assume that's just the rear cassette. I haven't gone that in depth with playing with my bikes yet so I don't really know how all that works. Can you just swap out different number of speeds depending on what you're doing? I mean, I assume that it does have to match your shifter. But I'm just saying if, for instance, you do a lot of hills and you want more options, you just swap (as an example) an 8 speed cassette and shifter for 10 speed? Easy peasy?
I spend a lot of years working in the engineering field, so I'm pretty mechanical. I'm not afraid to do my own work. But bikes are still a new platform for me. Learning a lot, fast.
I spend a lot of years working in the engineering field, so I'm pretty mechanical. I'm not afraid to do my own work. But bikes are still a new platform for me. Learning a lot, fast.
No, it’s not “easy peasy”. Somebody who “spent a lot of year in the engineering field” wouldn’t even think that about something that is “a new platform” for them.
It doesn’t seem you have any idea how index shifting works.
Last edited by njkayaker; 06-25-22 at 02:33 AM.
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Do you just come in to threads and post in an attempt to make yourself feel better by trying to run others down? I've run into people like you before. You're what is often referred to as "toxic". Please feel free to not contribute in my threads. Believe it or not, you're already there.
It is, in fact, easy to search for the basic ranking of different Shimano lines.
It looks like you went to Shimano’s site and gave up after being confused there (the Shimano site is kind of confusing for the info you were looking for).
Since you ask the question with zero apparent understanding, it seems you didn’t really but much effort into searching (again, it’s easy to find).
People are going to interpret the “school me” stuff as “I have a complicated / open-ended question that I’m too lazy to put real effort into researching. I want you to do that work.” It’s a phrase people should avoid using.
Last edited by njkayaker; 06-25-22 at 08:25 AM.
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Ya, that's something I struggle with. How to know how many gears a shifter is designed for. I have seen advertisements for 8, 9, 10 and as many as 11 speeds. I have to assume that's just the rear cassette. I haven't gone that in depth with playing with my bikes yet so I don't really know how all that works. Can you just swap out different number of speeds depending on what you're doing? I mean, I assume that it does have to match your shifter. But I'm just saying if, for instance, you do a lot of hills and you want more options, you just swap (as an example) an 8 speed cassette and shifter for 10 speed? Easy peasy?
I spend a lot of years working in the engineering field, so I'm pretty mechanical. I'm not afraid to do my own work. But bikes are still a new platform for me. Learning a lot, fast.
Of course I do. The question is, are you too smart to figure out what I said?
I spend a lot of years working in the engineering field, so I'm pretty mechanical. I'm not afraid to do my own work. But bikes are still a new platform for me. Learning a lot, fast.
Of course I do. The question is, are you too smart to figure out what I said?
#74
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Ya, that's something I struggle with. How to know how many gears a shifter is designed for. I have seen advertisements for 8, 9, 10 and as many as 11 speeds. I have to assume that's just the rear cassette. I haven't gone that in depth with playing with my bikes yet so I don't really know how all that works. Can you just swap out different number of speeds depending on what you're doing? I mean, I assume that it does have to match your shifter. But I'm just saying if, for instance, you do a lot of hills and you want more options, you just swap (as an example) an 8 speed cassette and shifter for 10 speed? Easy peasy?
I spend a lot of years working in the engineering field, so I'm pretty mechanical. I'm not afraid to do my own work. But bikes are still a new platform for me. Learning a lot, fast.
I spend a lot of years working in the engineering field, so I'm pretty mechanical. I'm not afraid to do my own work. But bikes are still a new platform for me. Learning a lot, fast.
Most here (who also frequent the Bicycle Mechanics) subforum have a working understanding of indexed shifting -- the general concept is not rocket surgery; no offense to any component engineer or mechanic here -- but of course there are subtle nuances (e.g., mixing components across different Shimano generations and/or groups, matching cable pull ratios, freehub width, etc.) that only certain members (e.g., cxwrench ) have readily at their command. Generally, at least in my experience, most of these members have freely offered their expert advice in response to specific questions.
Assuming you really (1) have years of experience in the engineering field (IMHO, the "the" should really be replaced by an "an", both semantically and to reflect how most engineers would regard their respective expertise), (2) have some mechanical aptitude, and (3) are not afraid to do your own work, could you not have made more progress toward articulating one or more specific questions about what you had hoped to do with your bikes or by upgrading / swapping their components? The fact that you did not bother to do so, and instead posed a broad, open-ended, and rambling series of "questions" while requesting an entire body of "real world knowledge and experience", has been interpreted by some as laziness.
Yes, this is an interactive forum, and interaction involves give and take.
#75
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Most here (who also frequent the Bicycle Mechanics) subforum have a working understanding of indexed shifting -- the general concept is not rocket surgery; no offense to any component engineer or mechanic here -- but of course there are subtle nuances (e.g., mixing components across different Shimano generations and/or groups, matching cable pull ratios, freehub width, etc.) that only certain members (e.g., cxwrench ) have readily at their command. Generally, at least in my experience, most of these members have freely offered their expert advice in response to specific questions.
* She thinks it might be "easy peasy" to swap 8 and 10 speed cassettes.
Last edited by njkayaker; 06-25-22 at 12:51 PM.