Harold74

I'm trying to assess the value of this bike (to me) prior to purchase. I've been to see it once. The particulars:

-Canadian market so you've got the 35% exchange rate penalty relative to USD.
-Size and fit seem perfect, long-ish top tube and all.
- Reynold's steel produces as smooth a ride as legend suggests.
- Minor cosmetic damage to frame. No big deal but, also, not showroom by any stretch.
- All of the consumables are pretty well consumed I'd say. Wheels, cassette, chainrings, brifters, cabling... are all pretty much at the point of replacement from my perspective.
- I have the same Ultegra group set on another bike and don't love it. I'd probably replace both derailleurs.
- I'd love to get 28 tires on this thing (23 on now). I struggle to tell if they'd fit though. At the chain stays, there's 3 mm available on one side; 10 mm on the other. I haven't teased out the source of the asymmetry yet.

I can have the bike at $650 CAD but I'm wondering if even that is too much given that I'll probably replace everything but the frame, fork, headset and crank. I can't have the frame on its own.

That frame pulls like a magnet though... If the wheels were in good shape and serviceable, and I knew it could take 28's, it would be a slam dunk for me.

I like that this bike has 130 mm, vertical dropouts and 1 1/8" threadless stem. That means some potential for modernizing as well as the ability to put it on my Wahoo Kickr.

Thoughts or advice?

Harold74

I also don't love the headset. I respect the Cane Creek brand but the headset has a blocky, plasticy feel to it somehow. And the lettering looks as though it was typed on grandma's typewriter. Like the Lego version of a headset. This is easily remedied if I decide that I can't live with it however.

Harold74

As with many of my vintage bike exploits, I feel that I'm heavily influenced by FOMO in a way that may not be healthy. Will this be my only shot at getting a Reynolds 853 frame locally in my size!?!? Possibly.

bargainguy

If the parts are worn through, that means the frame has seen some pretty serious use.

If you wind up replacing all the parts anyway, then the parts are of no help.

If at all possible, I'd wait for just the frame you're looking for instead of buying into this entire bike. If you don't mind waiting for a frame-only, you'll get a much better deal and won't have to buy into parts you don't need.

Harold74

Thanks for you input. Does a steel frame really "wear" in the absence of rust or impact events? The seller is a decent guy, a bike guy, and the original owner. In a way, I respect that he rode the snot out of the thing before letting it go in favor of an eBike. My impression is that most of the cosmetic frame and shifter damage on the bike is probably the result of travelling with it. I suppose that opens up the potential for bends in the fame.

I agree, I would love to go frame only. That would likely mean eBay, however, and the shipping of large things to Canada on eBay can be wickedly expensive. I'd be surprised if getting a frame only, shipped out of the US, wouldn't be more expensive than this bike in its entirety. I could sell the take offs although I doubt that would fetch me more than $100 CAD. The Ultegra brifters are probably the biggest value item and they are beat up something fierce.

cyclophilia 

I agree with @bargainguy that waiting for a frame you like would be prudent.

Then again, if the one on offer is a perfect fit you have the advantage of seeing it prior to purchase, which saves you from unpleasant surprises.

I recommend an eBay search for "Reynolds 853 frame" to see the going prices, both current on offer and in the SOLD section. That will
show you the range. I do not see many frames as large as the Lemond Zurich you examined. Availability in your size might push you towards
the local option.

fishboat

your on your own big guy..

SwimmerMike 

I’m a believer of if it fits and if it’s what you want, saving some money isn’t worth the time and hassle of waiting for another one to show up.

with that said, I’d be very worried about why the rear wheel isn’t centered. Is the wheel out of dish? No big deal. Is the frame out of alignment? Much bigger deal. If I was going to buy it I would do a quick alignment test and dish test to determine what the issue is.

shelbyfv

Given that length of seatpost on a level top tube frame, it obviously didn't fit the current owner. I'd check very carefully for damage in that area as well as the rear triangle.

nomadmax 

This dude gets it ^.

They aren't making any more of them and the time to buy is when you see it. Besides, do you honestly believe that owning and riding a bike, or any other passion, is a "break even" proposition? I have a fleet of steel bikes that make me happy when I ride or even just look at them. I don't care how much they cost or what someone might sell them for when I'm gone.

BMC_Kid 

I don't consider wheels, cassettes, chainrings, controllers, and derailleurs as consumables. Are all of the components really that bad that they couldn't be refreshed? If you're not keeping the components then you are pretty much just buying the frame.

In my opinion, that frame in that condition is a $200 USD frame, max. It's a decent frame to get you from point A to B but nothing really all that special. A bit flexy for steel IIRC. Not a bad thing, made it a more comfortable ride but again, as a frame only, I wouldn't pay more than $200 for it in that condition. As others have mentioned, if it were a complete bike and the components were decent to very good, maybe $300-$450ish USD - about what they are asking for it now it seems ($484 USD).

At least you are going into this with your eyes wide open. Best of luck with whatever you decide!

fishboat

your on your own big guy..

Harold74

Thanks, all, for the assistance. This has been great.

Regarding the "Consumables"

I'm pretty particular about my shifting, my body interfaces, and my drivetrain awesomeness. It's rare that I leave anything on a vintage bike other than the frame, fork, headset, wheels, and crank arms. Let's assume that I'm in this for just the frame.

Everything about the bike currently works, including the wheels. It is rideable as is. The peripherals simply aren't in good enough shape that I will likely ride the bike regularly if it's not brought up to par with my other bikes.

I will retain the wheels on a new intake if two criterion are met:

a) The hubs are serviceable and;
b) The wheels look sharp esthetically after cleanup (sue me, I like pretty wheels).

The wheels on this bike are too beat up for me. I'm sure that the blue anodizing looked great on day one but it doesn't seem to have held up particularly well.

Regarding the "Investment"

1) I am under no illusions regarding the potential, monetary ROI on my bike builds. It's negative and significantly so.

2) The "investment" that I would make in this bike would come in many forms: $$$, time, energy, space (storage). It kind of sounds like an astrophysics problem.

3) For this bike, the $$$ is not a big driver. It's mostly the other stuff that I just mentioned. Still, it's an investment and needs to be weighed relative to the non-monetary ROI.

4) My stable is at the point where intaking a new bike means divesting myself of another. This weighs into the valuation as well.

5) I have substantial sunk bike costs in the form of specialized tools. Each new build sort of amortizes that costs which, again affects the valuation.

Regarding the Offset Tire & Seatpost Extension

I'll confirm but, presently, my guess is that the bike was on a trainer prior being put up for sal. So the guy's favorite saddle got swapped out with no regard to saddle height and the rear wheel got put back on haphazardly. That, at least, is my optimistic guess. I'm 6'-1" and the seller seems to be about my same height.

Harold74

What about the seat post height suggests damage potential?

Germany_chris

It may not have enough seat post in the frame which will cause damage.

I will admit that when I saw that I immediately thought to myself that I wouldn’t take it if it was free, bad choices tend to come in multiples.

Harold74

That flexibility is really the only reason that I didn't purchase the bike on the spot. Not that the flexibility is bad, per se, just... unexpected.

I own a lot of steel bikes and the most comfy, by far, is my 1991 Miyata 1000. It's got triple butted chromoly and similar frame geometry. So I figured that the Zurich would be similar but, maybe, 15% better or lighter. That was not my experience. I don't know if it was the Reynolds steel or something else but the Zurich (23 mm tires) on pavement felt drastically smo0ther than my Miyata (35 tires) on residential tarmac. So much so that I started to wonder:

1) Is something wrong with the bike?

2) Will this much smoothness adversely affect power transfer?

3) Is it only the main triangle that is steel?

So, yeah, I flipped out initially. If this is the "Reynolds 853 Effect", then it really is quite something.

cyclophilia 

You have a wonderful perspective from your opportunity to test ride the Zurich.

Much nicer, in my opinion, than buying from eBay where it is a gamble on the ride qualities until after a purchase commitment.

Good luck with your discernment!

Harold74

Questions on the chain stay gap issue:

1) Is it at all probable that a frame would be deliberately designed to have an asymmetrical gap at the chain stay? I've been assuming that they are normally symmetrical by design.

2) There would be some degree of tolerance in the frame with respect to how straight the rear wheel sits. How not straight would a wheel need to be for you'd feel it tracking weird? Would you feel that more at higher speeds?

Mr. 66

At that price you want a bike with correct alignment. The 853 may not take re-alignment well.

bikemike73 

I have several Lemonds and LOVE THEM !!!! Nothing beats the 853 steel...... for me anyway.

Looks to be in very nice condition, at least cosmetically.
Offer 350.00 cash and see what seller says.

And, as above has said......not everyday a frame this size comes up for sale.
Not worth the 650 to me.....but certainly 400 - 450 depending on condition of components...

Good Luck !!!!

Harold74

Thanks for you input bikemike. Yet another fine data point and you've amped up the temptation that plagues me.

To clarify, your $350 recommendation was $350 USD, correct? Or was the Canadian exchange rate already factored in?

Something that I forgot to factor in is that I've already got most of the parts that I'll need to get the bike where I want it. Nitto noodle bars, 10sp bar ends, too many levers to mention, 9 speed Deore RD... I can' pick up a 10sp 105 FD for the price of decent meal. Ditto for a BB and some new Stronglight rings. The major exception is the wheels. And I can either borrow some wheels from another bike until I build some or just pick up a set of WH-RS100 for $230 CAD at MEC (Canadian REI).

This the danger: once the plan starts to really take shape in my head, the temptation to purchase goes through the roof.

force10

I paid $400US for an 2001 Zurich in excellent condition in 2020. It came with derailleurs and chainsets for both 2x and 3x.

Been running 28mm Conti GP 5000’s quite comfortably ever since on dt Swiss rr411 rims (18mm inside width).

I would have paid more for it. Hope this helps.

JochenRindt

Absolutely bang on, old boy. Couldn't have said it any better myself. I just bought an old Motobecane Le Champion in top notch condition. Simply looking at it parked next to my Vent Noir and Alp d'Huez- feeds my soul.

Harold74

It does help, thank you. Given that I plan to run identical tires, on narrower rims, on a model one year younger, I feel that my odds are improving.

Are you able to add any more precision to "quite comfortably"? 3mm all around? When I looked at the bike being discussed, the pinch point seemed to be the chain stays. The tire was off center between the stays which I suspect / hope is a wheel seating thing and not frame damage. I suppose that the frame could be built asymmetrically in this regard but I doubt it.

force10

Comfortable enough that it never occurred to me to measure. The brake pads were the bigger limiting factor to anything larger.

I’m away fro home for the week or I would post a picture. But there is at least one thread about Zurichs and 28mm tires on this forum that I consulted. The upshot is that they have room.