Kapusta

The problem:
Your bike company bought a bunch of hard-tail frames with 10 year-old XC geometry that nobody wants and some crappy 100mm forks. You've been sitting on them for years and can't sell them.

The Solution:
AGGRO-GRAVEL!

biker128pedal

I already have an Agro Gravel bike. It’s better because it’s a 26er.

rumrunn6

my fastest 17 mile suburban/urban commute was on a rigid 26er, too small for me, w/ big fat slicks

3alarmer 

Aggretsuko review:

dedhed

subgrade

First time I see Reba called crappy forks. They seem to be the most popular (upper) mid-tier XC forks out there, comparable to SLX in the drivetrain world. Also the frame geometry looks in line with other current XC frames, plus I don't think 148 mm boost axle standard was a thing 10 years ago.

That said, inventing a new name for cross-country bikes is stupid indeed.

(edit: noticed that at the lower price points they have Recon forks, but my point still stands.)

Kapusta

Look at the GEOMETRY. It is not current for modern MTBs. Which is why they needed to call it something else.

Reba is a mid level fork, and not one of the better ones. MC damper is coming up on its 17th birthday. I own one. It was considered a really good fork when I got it in 2007. Damper has fundamentally not changed. It may even be worse if they got rid of the FG adjustment.

subgrade

^ idk, apart from slightly longer reach and lower stack seems to be very close to others:
https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/s...r-9-5-2022-ml/

Kapusta

Yes, they are not all that far off from other frames with old XC geo.

Wanna know what was current 5-10 years ago? Look at XC racing and the bikes they ride. They have always dragged behind the rest of the MTB world.

I actually credit Sonder for seeing the writing on the wall for these bikes.

Darth Lefty 

Reba is the first level fork that’s compatible with repairs and upgrades. “Gold” forks probably pretty similar performance but no upgrades or small parts support.

The bikes do look pretty dull.

c0urt

odds are if i come across a cheap enough hard tail, use it at skate parks to perfect my jump game

rosefarts

2011 modern geometry. Sure. It’s not like it’s from 1993 or something.

It does have boost and thru axles, so it’s not like they just sat in a warehouse until now.

Its basically like my fairly similar Xcaliber, except mine is 135mm with QR.

Most likely they got a screaming deal at an overseas manufacturer with outdated jigs gathering dust.

These will be extremely capable for the casual XC rider. Definitely not meant for the podium or to be star of the next mega extreme video.

Making up a bunch of marketing terms instead of just saying that it’s a dialed down bike is about what I’d expect from most companies.

subgrade

It seems almost that you just don't consider XC a valid subgenre of MTB.

The point is that it is the current XC geometry, and there is no point in comparing it to the bikes of other MTB disciplines. They are tools optimized for the specific job. How come no one is winning XC rases on enduro bikes?

Kapusta

My preferences are beside the point. The point is what the market as a whole is doing. And the market as a whole is largely uninterested the niche XC racing bikes like the ones we are talking about for actual MTB use.

And apparently Sonder agrees with my assessment, thus the rebranding.

XC racing lost its relevance in modern MTB design about 20 years ago. Otherwise we would still be riding 580mm bars, 120mm stems, 2.0” tires, 71deg head angles, 4” saddle to bar drops, tight ratio cassettes, short top tubes, and no droppers. XC racing design has been dragged kicking and screaming every step of the way on all of these things just to get where it is now. It has always been slow to catch up.

70sSanO

It all depends on who is inventing the term.

Someone can coin the term brifter and it lives on indefinitely.

Others create a term and it lives on until Page 2.

John

Kapusta

I am guessing “Aggro-Gravel” (at least as a rebranding term for XC Race bikes) will not enjoy the longevity that “brifter” has.

Ironically though, the label may not be far off the mark.

70sSanO

The word “Aggro” is the kiss of death.

Not even extreme sports incorporate Aggro in their title. Think tow-in surfing, base jumping, etc.

John

Kapusta

Also, "aggro" sounds too much like "agro". People will think these bikes have something to do with farming.

livedarklions

There's something about the repeated gr-gr that makes it sound like a medical condition to me.

Kapusta

Graggro Gravel

wolfchild

I clicked on the link and all I see is a bunch of modern MTBs...Am I missing something here ??

rosefarts

69 degrees vs 65 degrees head tube angle

Kapusta

Those are not MTBs. Those are Aggro-Gravel.

Erzulis Boat 

Besides the "Aggro Gravel" name, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Sonder geometry. Many trails are absolutely conducive to tight/light setups. This is my rig for dry fast trails, and it worked fantastic in Sedona (for example) a few months ago. I use my full suspension/dropper maybe 10% of the time max.

wolfchild

Those bikes look like XC 29"ers. I have no idea why anybody would call it something else.