Wildwood 

... the operative word being 'should'.
What if it is a pavement Model T and you want narrower whitewalls, era appropriate?

Clinchers on a classic racer? Those original rims?


edit: I did see a close-out sale recently on 20s, but forget the tread or sidewall details.
Try the 'Want to Trade' thread.

Andy_K 

I just found something. It doesn't cover 42mm tires, but it's a start.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/aero...orld-bicycles/

From the article: "And what about those wide tires? The data showed a very slight increase in air resistance when going from 25 to 32 mm tires, but the difference was too small to be statistically significant. It may be real, or it may just be in the noise of the data collection. In any case, it’s smaller than many other factors, such as your stem height or the clothes you wear."

Regarding the clothes you wear: "The difference between a close-fitting jacket and a looser cycling jacket is a full 8% increase in the overall wind resistance of your bike!" I've also found this to be true in a very unscientific test I conducted several years back. I live on a steep hill, and I had the idea that I could compare the rolling resistance of various tires by picking a starting point, letting myself coast from that point, and recording my max speed when I got to the bottom of the hill. What I found was that whether or not I was wearing a jacket was the only thing that made a reliable difference. With different tires and the same clothes, the max speed was typically less than 0.5 mph different and not repeatable. Wearing a jacket reduced my max speed by around 5 mph. I started out thinking I had a way to measure rolling resistance, but it turned out I was measuring aerodynamic drag. I should repeat this experiment with wide and skinny tires.

52telecaster

This is great info. I would imagine my clothing choices cause a great deal of drag. Also when touring headwinds suck but tailwinds are maximized with panniers an big clothing.

smd4

It's OK. Rather not hunt for hand-me-downs or close-outs. I think I made my point. The tires I and others want are not available because the manufacturers have told us that what "the market" wants are wider, cushier, fatter, less-fast, less-light tires.

And yes, they're original rims.

ThermionicScott 

The "Duro" brand appears to still make 700x20C tires: https://www.duro.com.tw/en/product/b...01a057b88e9f9/

At least many companies are still making 23s. Maybe if you searched for the absolute lightest ones, you might find a company that's undersizing them to hit that goal.

bamboobike4

Once in a while, you see Hutchison Fusions in 19mm for sale. They are not slicks, though.
I've had some (a shop gave them to me after the customer brought them back).
Very hard, very fast (seemed, anyway).

I also have ridden Panaracer Tecnova II 700x19's that had raised lettering stating 700x18. Nearly slicks.
Very hard, seemed fast, but my C&V wheels went out of true after 3-4 rides. Repeatedly, until I swapped tires for 23's.

I then tried Tufo 700x20 clinching tubulars. Hard, but sluggish. Tire construction had to have played a part in that.

All the research aside, riding skinnies at high psi just seems.... efficient.

smd4

Thanks! I'll check out Duro. I did pick up two pairs of Veloflex 23s.

bamboobike4

Especially about climbing. It's a sign.

zandoval 

Anybody headed back to Sew Ups... Most likely... NOT...

Edit: Maybe??? ...Ha

SurferRosa

Take your pick: apologies in advance or you're welcome.

Bad Lag

What was of interest to me, was the rolling resistance difference between latex and butyl tubes - latex was a lot lower than butyl.

Now, think of the extra time spent pumping them up before every single ride. Remember also, the time and energy lost when you get a flat and have to stop and patch them (and reinflate them).

NOTHING is slower than a tire that leaves you by the side of the road fixing a flat.

Wildwood 

They are getting cheaper than tubeless ready tires, lighter wheels, so yes = a continuing tubular tire user. I may switch to tape instead of glue.

SurferRosa

And ... I've never seen you flat.

Do you ever flat?

HTupolev

Not necessarily. Depends on flat rate and the particular tires being compared, and how long you take to resolve punctures. A fast racing tire can often be faster over a century than something like a Marathon Plus even if you suffer a couple flats.

I check and set inflation before every ride regardless of the tire setup I'm using. And while latex does require a clean install, if anything, out on the road I seem to get fewer flats than with butyl.

dedhed

There's a reason those are $400 tires.

79pmooney

Were you on the Trask River Trail ride 5 years ago with Gugie and Andy K. A dozen or so of us in a variety of tires. Almost everybody had flats; some many, I rode large Paselas, 38 front and 35 (the limit in my Mooney) in back. No issues at all. I also rode the 25 miles to get to the ride start and 20 or so miles we all did on pavement. I had by far the best compromise for the day. (Got so far ahead descending that when no one showed up, figured they or I was lost and it was time to fend for myself. Got to our destination an hour and a half before the next riders. (Granted, I wasn't sitting around killing time watching others repair their tires.)

I also had a frame pump (that got damaged when I lent it to someone else for his umpteenth flat). Used it to top off when I hit the pavement west of the logging roads. Never used a gauge but I was running probably 60-70 on the pavement and maybe less than 30 in front on the logging roads.

So, for me, a 90 mile day and if I were to do it again, I'd use the same tires. (Well, if Vittoria made a G+ version of 38s and 35s and someone else paid for them, I'd step up.)

squirtdad

I use both and in a current build my tubular set is going to be the more durable wheelset and tires

Considering all the issues I see on mechanics forum with tubeless and issues if you do flat on the road and sealant or plugs don't work, i truly don't see why more people don't go tubular, which are really not that hard at all to deal with

79pmooney

Not there yet but I'm stockpiling rims. When my current rims die (maybe sooner as I run out of my Clincher stash), my wheels are getting re-laced with sewup rims. The workhorse rims, Mavic 400+g with 300g sewups for all-purpose use, lighter of both when I want to have fun. Now my driving reason isn't either flats or rolling resistance/weight/speed but the wonderful resistance of well glued sewups from coming off rims. I've had a clincher come off at 25 mph. Injury-wise, a top 5er. I now cannot clear the "what if" from my mind on high speed descents. Takes a lot of the joy out of riding hills.

I downplay speed but - that bike in my avatar is just crying for wheels like I raced 45 years ago. Put a fully race worthy deep V aero rim in back, a 330g in front and 200g Corsas and that bike will be in ecstacy. Same rims and 250-270g road tires (modern equivs to Clement silks, Criterium and Paris-Roubaix) and I get to have fun in the hills and mountain descents!

Wildwood 

Rarely, but it happens. Most are slow leaks found the day after a ride. I am regularly on 2 major traffic roads with all manner of debris. (Issaquah-Hobart Rd, Coal Creek Pkwy)

1. I do not ride 'tough' gravel roads (but I do have a set of 33mm cyclocross, in case)
2. I invest in good tires on all the bikes
3. I try to ride bikes in rotation, so minimal miles per tire, compared to many.
4. I visually check tires, sometimes rinsing/wiping them after a gritty/glassy ride (and brake rims)
5. Lucky, but always prepared. (Hehehe, there is a weird sense of something when wearing the 2nd tubular spare around shoulders)

edit: yes (again) on future tubular use.

Andy_K 

Even if the century doesn't actually take longer with the Marathon Plus, it will definitely feel longer.

bamboobike4

Still using them a lot.
1-Tape makes them easier.
2-Excellent wheels are often cheap, used, like Zipp 404’s for $300, with Campy hubs even cheaper.
3-Better luck with flats, in general.

I’m 1 for 3 with tubeless, so the jury is still out.

bamboobike4

I get a kick out of some of her stuff. So thanks.

bamboobike4

Succinct

Bad Lag

There are so many variables which affect riders in different areas, it is unlikely there is just one "best" solution. The difference between riding on gravel, off road, or on smooth black top or smooth concrete paving is just one example.

Even within a single type of road bed, the surface condition is important - the level of maintenance and debris/litter/broken glass is a factor; or the size and sharpness of the gravel; whether the blacktop is smooth or rough and gravely.

I gave up on sew ups when living in New York City - the roads had too much broken glass and a single spare was not enough. I also tired of fixing flats in sew ups. I gave up on latex tubes again just recently when each tube flatted, more or less spontaneously (not punctured). I'm quite good at fixing flats (fast) but prefer to not do it.

I have developed a tried and true set up for my area and conditions that does not flat very often. I'm not saying it a slow, ponderous set, either, I believe it is quite slick and I can go for years without a flat.

To me, that outweighs any rolling resistance argument "by miles".

Road Fan

I knew my project to buy a set of used car tires would help my cycling!