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need information about bike. Nervex lugs and campa dropouts and reynolds 531 tubes

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need information about bike. Nervex lugs and campa dropouts and reynolds 531 tubes

Old 05-03-12, 05:01 PM
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maym036
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need information about bike. Nervex lugs and campa dropouts and reynolds 531 tubes

Can anyone help me identify this frame.
It has very nice nervex lugs, campy dropouts, reynolds 531 tubes and is build up with early campy stuff.
The best is you have a look at the pictures. The bike was build up by Nicolas Frantz, an old luxemburgish cyclist who had
his own shop. He had it build up for a very good friend of his. The bad thing is that there are only decals on it from his shop, so it is not easy for me to find out what frame it actually is.

Everything is in very good condition for it`s age and with a little polish the components and frame will look very nice again.

One other question I have. I heard that Campagnolo did fabricate only one saddle, the electa. But now I had a closer look at the saddle of this bike and noticed a Campagnolo stamp on the top of it. Also the rails have writen Campagnolo on it. Has anyone more info about this?








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Old 05-03-12, 05:03 PM
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Old 05-03-12, 05:12 PM
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I can't tell you anything about the frame, but the saddle is a Brooks Campagnolo version with narrow rails - and the seatpost also has the cradles top and bottom designed for this special narrow saddle.

DD
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Old 05-03-12, 05:26 PM
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yah thats a cool saddle, I have two sets of the narrow hardware but dont think ill ever find a saddle to match either of them up with.

The bike, as far as the parts go looks like early 60s, maybe even late 50s

I figured it was French until you mentioned Lux.

The rake on that fork is awesome!

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Old 05-03-12, 05:26 PM
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very interesting! some very rare bits on that fine-looking frame: is this an alloy-armed cottered TA crank? And early Campy hubs? 4-S freewheel? In spite of the Nervex lugs and BB, and the 531 plain-gauge tubing, and "Brit" looking lining I'm thinking it could be Italian due to all the early Italian components, but I have no confidence in that guess.
Hope a real expert chimes in...maybe made in Benelux? Swiss?

Last edited by unworthy1; 05-03-12 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 05-03-12, 05:37 PM
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BB thread might answer some ideas as to its origins.
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Old 05-03-12, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by spurious
BB thread might answer some ideas as to its origins.
I'm sure it will do reasonably well on ebay unless you price it too aggressively.
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Old 05-03-12, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
very interesting! some very rare bits on that fine-looking frame: is this an alloy-armed cottered TA crank? And early Campy hubs? 4-S freewheel? In spite of the Nervex lugs and BB, and the 531 plain-gauge tubing, and "Brit" looking lining I'm thinking it could be Italian due to all the early Italian components, but I have no confidence in that guess.
Hope a real expert chimes in...maybe made in Benelux? Swiss?
I am not sure that is cottered. I think it is this, a TA 1500 It might be considered cottered, but not in the usual sense.

That is an interesting bike.
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Old 05-03-12, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CV-6
I am not sure that is cottered. I think it is this, a TA 1500 It might be considered cottered, but not in the usual sense.

That is an interesting bike.
Yep, I think it is that TA 1500 Criterium...just hard to see the unique shape of the spindle end due to something (a wad of old chewing gum?) obscuring it.
I'm guessing again (while waiting for the OP to provide the BB threading clue) that TA BBs were offered in French and British but not Italian...did I guess right?

EDIT: No, at least for later cotterless BB units, the '73 catalog shows 3 threadings: BR FR and Ital (I got to start making better guesses!)

Last edited by unworthy1; 05-03-12 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 05-03-12, 07:00 PM
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Very cool looking.
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Old 05-03-12, 07:37 PM
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You can distinguish French from Italian by the BB shell width (68 vs 70mm), the BB threading (35x1 vs 36x24), or the outer diameter of the seat tube (28 vs 28.6). Cool bike!
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Old 05-03-12, 08:03 PM
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If this bike was built for the shop by a contract builder, then that is what the bike is, a "Franz". Or are you saying that Franz took another bike, took off the decals and applied his own "Franz" decals?
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Old 05-03-12, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by John E
You can distinguish French from Italian by the BB shell width (68 vs 70mm), the BB threading (35x1 vs 36x24), or the outer diameter of the seat tube (28 vs 28.6). Cool bike!
Given the 27.0 seat post, I'm pretty sure it's not metric 531 tubing...and I doubt that the Ambrosio stem is stuck in a FR (22.0) steerer...but not going to say 100% sure about anything at this point. If I had to bet right now, I'd bet that it's British or Dutch, with a tilt toward Dutch.
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Old 05-04-12, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dbakl
Very cool looking.
+1. That is one beautiful (and pretty rare) bike. Once cleaned up it will look absolutely stunning - congrats on a great find!

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Old 05-04-12, 12:42 AM
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Thanks for all the great help and numerous posts!
I will check which BB threading it has as soon as I am at home this evening. The little somewhat that is obscuring the view of the end of the spindle appears to be cork or something like that.
Oh, and Repechage, I think it is going to be a keeper as I do not have any similar bike.
Also I should ad that the seller offered me the bike for free ( I still made a small donation), so I think it would not be fair to make profit out of it.

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Old 05-04-12, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by vjp
If this bike was built for the shop by a contract builder, then that is what the bike is, a "Franz". Or are you saying that Franz took another bike, took off the decals and applied his own "Franz" decals?
From what the seller told me ( the son of the friend of Nicolas Frantz) it is the second option. However it does not really make a differnce. Either way I`d like to know who build the bike.
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Old 05-04-12, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
very interesting! some very rare bits on that fine-looking frame: is this an alloy-armed cottered TA crank? And early Campy hubs? 4-S freewheel? In spite of the Nervex lugs and BB, and the 531 plain-gauge tubing, and "Brit" looking lining I'm thinking it could be Italian due to all the early Italian components, but I have no confidence in that guess.
Hope a real expert chimes in...maybe made in Benelux? Swiss?

5 speed by the looks of it.
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Old 05-04-12, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by spurious
5 speed by the looks of it.
you're better at counting than me.
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Old 05-04-12, 09:03 AM
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Oh pretty.
Sorta reminds me of my Motobecane Grand Record '72 frame.

It too has campy dropouts, Nervx lugs and the fork rake looks similar. Reynolds 531 too.
Though, mine has no braze on anything. I see your top tube has some braze ons. Maybe they were added after the fact?

Last edited by yellowdog76; 05-04-12 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 05-04-12, 09:05 AM
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that looks like a diamond in the rough! no idea on the builder, though.
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Old 05-04-12, 09:08 AM
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I know nothing but those decals and head badge look original to me. At least from this seat. Who is N. Frantz? Shop owner? Maybe a contract builder who built frames for shops to stick their logos on.
If it were mine, I wouldn't change a thing on that bike, aside from maybe new brake cable housings if you're not able to save the originals. Shorten the rear dérailleur housing a bit, and find a nut for the front brake caliper through bolt.
Very cool old bike.

Last edited by rootboy; 05-04-12 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 05-04-12, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rootboy
I know nothing but those decals and head badge look original to me. At least from this seat. Who is N. Frantz? Shop owner? Maybe a contract builder who built frames for shops to stick their logos on.
If it were mine, I wouldn't change a thing on that bike, aside from maybe new brake cable housings if you're not able to save the originals. Shorten the rear dérailleur housing a bit, and find a nut for the front brake caliper through bolt.
Very cool old bike.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Frantz
He was the shopowner in a village next to my city

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Old 05-04-12, 09:25 AM
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Oops. I should have looked that up. I wonder if the family would know anything about who, or what shop Mr Franz contracted out his name to, to build frames? Could be a long shot. Does your generous donor still have contact with the Franz family?
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Old 05-04-12, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by John E
You can distinguish French from Italian by the BB shell width (68 vs 70mm), the BB threading (35x1 vs 36x24), or the outer diameter of the seat tube (28 vs 28.6). Cool bike!
The BB shell widht is 70mm and the diameter of the seat tube is 28.6. That makes it italian threading I guess?
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Old 05-04-12, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
Yep, I think it is that TA 1500 Criterium...just hard to see the unique shape of the spindle end due to something (a wad of old chewing gum?) obscuring it.
I'm guessing again (while waiting for the OP to provide the BB threading clue) that TA BBs were offered in French and British but not Italian...did I guess right?

EDIT: No, at least for later cotterless BB units, the '73 catalog shows 3 threadings: BR FR and Ital (I got to start making better guesses!)

I think you are right, it is the TA 1500 Criterium
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