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Want a 46 -24 double crankset

Old 11-23-21, 01:19 PM
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Want a 46 -24 double crankset

Can it be done ? A 46 with a 24 or 26 small ring? I know Chris White Industries had one that you could order but it was very pricey and their website has been down for sometime. Can I create one from an available triple or switching out rings on a double that could handle the needed distance between bolts. As always, thank you for your input.
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Old 11-23-21, 01:22 PM
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Sure, you could do it with a regular 110/74 BCD triple. Just use a 24T granny ring and put a 46T ring in the middle position with short bolts. Won't make any guarantees about shift quality, though.
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Old 11-23-21, 02:08 PM
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It's just White Industries, no Chris. The guy's name is Doug White. And while possible like Thermonic posted, it won't shift worth a damn. That's a 22 tooth difference. Modern compacts with a 16 tooth difference are pushing it IMO.
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Old 11-23-21, 03:26 PM
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I believe you can still get the White Ind VBC cranks and chainrings. The widest spread seems to be 46/26. VBC is a variable bolt circle with slots to allow for different BCD’s. You have to use their chainrings, which means one day you may be out of luck getting them.

They are most likely not any better than going with a 110/74 triple and using middle/inner.

The rings don’t appear to have any sort of special pins or ramps for that tooth range. I could see it as a possible 1x with a rarely used granny as you can coax “almost” any shift.

Like others using both rings consistently on a ride, might leave shifting performance to be desired.

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Old 11-23-21, 03:43 PM
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How are you planning of shifting this?

I am thinking it would need to be vintage with a triple front detailler to handle that range. Current compact double that I have seen set a 16 tooth difference up front (50/34) 48/32
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Old 11-23-21, 03:50 PM
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I'm thinking I could get by with that 46-26 double and go 11-36 in the rear. I'm considering using this for touring. In the past and currently I tour on a 46-36-24 with an 11-34 cassette and find I only drop out of the big ring on rare occasions. Basically the 26 would be a bail out ring when climbing and fully loaded. I run a 46-30 on my cycle cross bikes so I somewhat have a feel of what shifting will be like. Thanks again for everyone's suggestions and insights here.

Btw, using Shimano brifters presently and yes, they can be sometimes finicky shifting with a triple.
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Old 11-23-21, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by robow View Post
I'm thinking I could get by with that 46-26 double and go 11-36 in the rear. I'm considering using this for touring. In the past and currently I tour on a 46-36-24 with an 11-34 cassette and find I only drop out of the big ring on rare occasions.
Why not just stay with a 46-36-24 triple then?

Originally Posted by robow View Post
I run a 46-30 on my cycle cross bikes so I somewhat have a feel of what shifting will be like.
46/30 (16T difference) is within Shimano specifications, whereas 46/26 is not; why not go 46/30 with a bigger 11-40 or 11-42 cassette shifted by a GRX rear derailleur?
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Old 11-23-21, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
Why not just stay with a 46-36-24 triple then?



46/30 (16T difference) is within Shimano specifications, whereas 46/26 is not; why not go 46/30 with a bigger 11-40 or 11-42 cassette shifted by a GRX rear derailleur?
Because that's beyond the spec of the derailleur. Both of them.
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Old 11-23-21, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
Because that's beyond the spec of the derailleur. Both of them.
Oops. I don't know anything about the front triple, but Shimano GRX RD specs says up to 42T?

RD-RX812 (shimano.com)

Or is this RD not compatible with a front triple?
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Old 11-23-21, 06:12 PM
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You need to learn more about derailleur spec. The 810 is the 'double' specific rear derailleur. It works w/ a max cog of 34, and wraps 40t of chain. Shimano says a max difference between front chainring of 17t...not triple compatible. The 812 is the '1x' rear derailleur, it will work with a max cog of 42t but it only has 31t of chain wrap capacity. You have to keep BOTH max cog size and capacity in mind when looking at rear derailleurs.
ETA: 'both of them' referring to both GRX 11spd rear derailleurs, the 810 and 812, NOT the front and rear derailleurs.
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Old 11-23-21, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
why not go 46/30 with a bigger 11-40 or 11-42 cassette shifted by a GRX rear derailleur?
Steps are larger than what I like.
I'll tolerate a 11-36 (I think)
Btw, running an older XT rear derailleur in 10 speed presently
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Old 11-23-21, 10:01 PM
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White Industries would be the go to but again shifting issues, maybe a triple derailleur would work but that is a big leap.
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Old 11-23-21, 10:28 PM
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The 135/74, 130/74, or 110/74 triple crank without the outer ring is the way to go. A "doublized triple", so to speak. With the specified BB axle length, it should put your 46 in line with the center of the cassette, which is what you want if you use the 46 most of the time and the granny only in desparation. Regard your gears as 1x with bailout. With a modern chain, cross-chaining is no big deal if the chainline hits cassette centre, so your entire cassette should be accessible from the 46.

You will want your 46 to be a "middle" position ring, so that you get shift aids. You are going to need all the help you can get with shifting that gap. Spa Cycles in the UK has lots of choice in 46T middles, and may begin shipping to Canada/US soon. You will also want a chain keeper to re-rail the chain if it overshifts inward. Deda Dog Fang is one, there are others. I think you want to bring the front derailleur cage down as close as 2 mm from the 46T ring to prevent overshifts. This may be tricky with a braze-on front derailleur, but should be no sweat with a clamp-on,

You may need an older front derailleur, as some have mentioned. Watch your derailleur wrap capacity and chain length, both less troublesome with a moderate cassette. Don't listen to the mega-cassette evangelists.
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Old 11-23-21, 10:44 PM
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Every time I suggest a Schlumpf Speed Drive, High-Speed Drive, or a Mountain Drive, nobody ever gets one. I don't get it.

With a Type '08 Speed Drive a 27 tooth cog multiplies out (1.65:1) to a 44.5 tooth big ring or a more common 34 tooth on the conventional 110 bcd multiplies out to bigger than a 56 tooth big ring.

With a High Speed Drive a 27 chainring multiplies out to a 67.5 big ring & a conventional 110bcd 34 tooth small ring would be equivalent to a 85 tooth big ring.

Likewise with a mountain drive you would see a 2.5:1 reduction. You want a 24 tooth small? Use a 60 tooth big ring in direct. The 2.5:1 reduction makes it effectivly a 24.

Pair any of them with any of the 1x drivetrain cassette/derailleur combos you wish. Off-hand, a Mountain Drive would get you a 24, 46 small/small combo with an 60, 11 big/big with a run of the mill XT derailleur & still be with in specs in terms of 35 tooth wrap & max cog size. I dunno about you, but I can't imagine a scenario where I'd need more than 14.2 to 148 gear inches of range with a 700x32c tire...Need a lower low equivalent to a 20 tooth small? Use a readily available 5x110bcd 50 tooth instead.

With your desired gearing stated in your original post, you probably want the standard Speed Drive 1.65:1 mated to any of the modern wide range 10-50 1x options.

Schlumpf drives by Haberstock Mobility are more than worth it. I have 2. Email them. They'll invoice to Paypal & ship direct.

Last edited by base2; 12-01-21 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 11-24-21, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Every time I suggest a Schlumpf Speed Drive, High-Speed Drive, or a Mountain Drive, nobody ever gets one. I don't get it.
Really? You don’t get why nobody is spending $750 for something that can be accomplished with a $25 front derailleur that weighs less and has less drag?

$750 and you still need gears in the rear?

If I am going to spend that kind of money on losing derailleurs, I'll get an IGH in the rear, and I won’t need anything in the front other than a single ring.

I am sure these serve some niche function very well (they are still in business, so someone is buying them). But for most people in most situations, they make little sense.

Last edited by Kapusta; 11-24-21 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 11-24-21, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Really? You don’t get why nobody is spending $750 for something that can be accomplished with a $25 front derailleur that weighs less and has less drag?

$750 and you still need gears in the rear?

If I am going to spend that kind of money on losing derailleurs, I'll get an IGH in the rear, and I won’t need anything in the front other than a single ring.

I am sure these serve some niche function very well (they are still in business, so someone is buying them). But for most people in most situations, they make little sense.
The OP doesn't say what the rest of his gearing is, or what the end goal is. Only that he wants a combination with a ridiculous spread & presumably a lower low. With conventional components that leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

(46−24)+(28−11)=39 That's a heck of a tooth capacity the OP is trying to accomplish with cheap (meaning old tech) derailleurs. All for 0.85:1?

This leads me to believe that one way or another, he's going to be buying a new drivetrain before this is all finished. Why not buy the thing that suits his needs? XTR, Ultegra, Quarq, FSA SL-K all are expensive AF & none cover his needs. I am not suggesting those. This is not about price.

I guess he *could* pick up a Shimano FC-M3000 Acera Square Taper Crankset - 9 Speed, if he could find one for about $46 & accomplish the lower half of his goal. What good is that? It leaves us right back where we started.

The OP may find an XT/XTR rear derailleur, 42-11, 11 speed cassette on a 8,9,10 speed freehub body, & trigger shifter a better solution. At a cost of ~$260 or so but he'll still need to address the maximum 16 tooth jump on his existing crankset. Say "hello" to new rings/crankset. 40-11 isn't a very tall big gear. This is better still but moreorless leaves us back where we started. This is where the Schlumpf steps in: 1x simplicity & a range far greater than a triple can offer.

The OP is asking for the near impossible: Greater than the range of a triple. It is possible. You just get what you pay for.

$1000 in total to get exactly what you want, & to be the only kid on the block with a machine that can do it all with no compromises anywhere? Sounds like a deal to me.

Last edited by base2; 11-24-21 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 11-24-21, 10:51 AM
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Microshift has bar end shifters in both 10 and 11 speed that work with Shimano MTB (Dynasys?) rear derailleurs. I think the SGS versions may have the range.
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Old 11-24-21, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Microshift has bar end shifters in both 10 and 11 speed that work with Shimano MTB (Dynasys?) rear derailleurs. I think the SGS versions may have the range.
As does Gevenalle.
Like it or not, I think the OP is due for a 2x11 mountain drivetrain. One way or another.

I set up my wifes bike with a 28-44 crankset by taking the 44 off a triple & spacing it inboard with some 2.1mm washers & mated it to an 11-42 cassette. 18 to 108 gear inches all operated via Gevenalle brifters.

Similar can be done with Shimano 11 speed road (if the OP is a brand loyalist) & a Wolf Tooth Tanpan.

Taking the above Schlumpf posts into consideration, the Microshift or Gevenalle may be the less expensive proposal. I still don't think cooking along in small cogs is ideal, but at least the range the OP wants is covered.
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Old 11-24-21, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
The OP doesn't say what the rest of his gearing is, or what the end goal is. Only that he wants a combination with a ridiculous spread & presumably a lower low. With conventional components that leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

(46−24)+(28−11)=39 That's a heck of a tooth capacity the OP is trying to accomplish with cheap (meaning old tech) derailleurs. All for 0.85:1?

This leads me to believe that one way or another, he's going to be buying a new drivetrain before this is all finished. Why not buy the thing that suits his needs? XTR, Ultegra, Quarq, FSA SL-K all are expensive AF & none cover his needs. I am not suggesting those. This is not about price.
.
Any triple will get him the range he needs in the front. And any number of long cage RDs will give him the capacity to do so. No need for anything exotic or expensive to do this.

You are way over-complicating this.

Last edited by Kapusta; 11-24-21 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 11-24-21, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Any triple will get him the range he needs in the front. And any number of long cage RDs will give him the capacity to do so. No need for anything exotic or expensive to do this.

You are way over-complicating this.
Probably.
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Old 11-24-21, 01:57 PM
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Yea, I could slap a Dura ace bar end shifter on the left side, friction mode, and leave my triple and brifters in place. Btw, I'm not looking to increase the gear inch range by going to a double. Actually I'll lose an inch on the lower end but I could live with that in order to simplify my occasional shift to the smaller ring.
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Old 11-24-21, 09:13 PM
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I’ve posted this a few times in other threads because it is pretty intriguing… Salsa Fargo Tiagra. No one can confirm if this means any mtb FD, but a Tiagra 4700 double shifter is paired, and sold as OEM, with a Deore FD.

I’ve interpreted this to mean the new pull ratio is compatible to the newer designed road FD and (current/older???) mtb FDs. That may give you an option for a triple mtb FD with road double shifter. Depending on the FD, it should cover your 26 to 46.

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Old 12-01-21, 02:24 AM
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is a 46/30 close enough for you ?

I have this on my bike.
https://www.amazon.com/Cannondale-Sp.../dp/B07Y26L1P3
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Old 12-01-21, 06:43 AM
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I did a "doublized triple" the other day
bought this frame:





Nice 22/32/44 Sugino triple
Messed up middle ring.
I couldn't find a good middle replacement so I just put the big ring in the middle position, with some short aliexpress bolts.

Now it's 44/22
Shifting with a tricolour 600 road mech and a deore friction thumbie.

The shifting is surprisingly excellent. It's good for trail riding even.
The 22t gap? No problem at all. Could be bigger.
The only annoying part is it requires quite a lot of trimming, but that is only because the cage curvature of the road mech is not ideal for a 44t cog.



Maybe this is helpful. You can definately do what you want with a triple. I just advise a friction shifter.
48, 44, or 42 are much more common than 46 though. Maybe pick one of those
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Old 12-01-21, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by robow View Post
I'm thinking I could get by with that 46-26 double and go 11-36 in the rear. I'm considering using this for touring. In the past and currently I tour on a 46-36-24 with an 11-34 cassette and find I only drop out of the big ring on rare occasions. Basically the 26 would be a bail out ring when climbing and fully loaded. I run a 46-30 on my cycle cross bikes so I somewhat have a feel of what shifting will be like. Thanks again for everyone's suggestions and insights here.
Why not just do the easy thing and remove your inner chain ring? You’ll need to move the outer ring to the middle position and get shorter chain ring bolts or spacers but this would be the easiest way to accomplish what you want. At least you can experiment before you dump money into a new crank. At worst it won’t work. At best, you won’t have to do a whole lot of work or spend a whole lot of money.

Use your existing front derailer as well. It already does the job so just let it keep doing the same job. I also wouldn’t worry too much about being out of spec on derailers. Shimano Sora says it has a capacity of 20 teeth. I’ve used them on cranks that have 48, 46, and 44 tooth outer rings with 20 tooth (yes, 20 teeth) inner ring. That 8, 6, and 4 teeth past the “capacity” of the derailer. The derailer has no issues with handling any of those capacities.

Btw, using Shimano brifters presently and yes, they can be sometimes finicky shifting with a triple.
Your set up may be wrong. I use Shimano STI for decades with zero front shifting issues even on extremely wide range cranks. If you are using a mountain bike triple…which sounds like you are…, you may want to move the crank inward a few millimeters. Mountain bike cranks stick out to the right about 5mm more than road cranks. Road fronts tend to not move far enough outward to accommodate that. Moving the crank inboard solves that problem nicely.
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