Is There A Reason Why Threaded Freewheels For 120mm Hub Max Out At 34T?
05-09-21, 05:24 PM
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Is There A Reason Why Threaded Freewheels For 120mm Hub Max Out At 34T?
Jus Thinken...
Is There A Reason Why Threaded Freewheels For 120mm Hub Max Out At 34T?
I have been real happy with my economical Shimano 6 speed 14-34T touring freewheel and; I actually spend more time on my 34T cog than I would like to admit.
Is There A Reason Why Threaded Freewheels For 120mm Hub Max Out At 34T?
I have been real happy with my economical Shimano 6 speed 14-34T touring freewheel and; I actually spend more time on my 34T cog than I would like to admit.
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05-09-21, 05:49 PM
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They don't, or didn't. Suntour made a 38 as did Sachs. Of course it was helicomatic but it was still a thread on.
I'm sure there's specific engineering arguments for why they didn't go bigger but the obvious answer was to add smaller chainrings to expand the range of gearing.
edit...on second thought, the Sachs was likely spaced for 126. I've got one and will check.
I'm sure there's specific engineering arguments for why they didn't go bigger but the obvious answer was to add smaller chainrings to expand the range of gearing.
edit...on second thought, the Sachs was likely spaced for 126. I've got one and will check.
Last edited by clubman; 05-09-21 at 05:58 PM.
05-09-21, 05:49 PM
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Not much demand and not many RDs that have that sort of capacity. The real problem is that you are talking about huge jumps in your gearing since you can only fit 5 or 6 in 120 OLD. Better to go smaller up front to get the gears you need either with a triple or a "compact" double. That's how I just set up my 70s Motobecane Grand Record, with 50/34 chainrings and a 14-28 freewheel. If I needed better climbing gears, I could have installed smaller chainrings.
05-09-21, 06:21 PM
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According to Sheldon Brown:
Beyond 6-speeds the axle starts becoming an issue, especially with lower gears or in touring conditions. So you risk the axle snapping.
But if it is 120 OLD you are looking for then check out this 120mm cassette hub by SunXCD (Modern Suntour) and build your own 6/7-speed cassette in 14-36 if you want.
Freewheels screw onto the hub without any tools, then, as you ride the bike, your pedaling effort tightens them down.A freewheel that has been ridden for a long time, especially by a strong rider with low gears, may be quite difficult to remove because the threads are so tight.
But if it is 120 OLD you are looking for then check out this 120mm cassette hub by SunXCD (Modern Suntour) and build your own 6/7-speed cassette in 14-36 if you want.
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05-09-21, 06:23 PM
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The Sachs SDS-8 was indeed 120 but not a 38 tooth. At least you got 8 cogs...
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05-09-21, 06:30 PM
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Not much demand and not many RDs that have that sort of capacity. The real problem is that you are talking about huge jumps in your gearing since you can only fit 5 or 6 in 120 OLD. Better to go smaller up front to get the gears you need either with a triple or a "compact" double. That's how I just set up my 70s Motobecane Grand Record, with 50/34 chainrings and a 14-28 freewheel. If I needed better climbing gears, I could have installed smaller chainrings.
05-09-21, 06:34 PM
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With a suitable triple crankset, there's really not a reason to go bigger than 30 or 32T.
Steve in Peoria
05-10-21, 07:12 AM
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Obviously, cyclists back then were much stronger and tougher than the softies we see today.
Actually, I suspect it is because the >34T sprockets are mainly useful for off-road riding, which didn't become popular until around the same time that freehubs/cassettes also became popular.
Actually, I suspect it is because the >34T sprockets are mainly useful for off-road riding, which didn't become popular until around the same time that freehubs/cassettes also became popular.
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05-10-21, 07:31 AM
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Not much demand and not many RDs that have that sort of capacity. The real problem is that you are talking about huge jumps in your gearing since you can only fit 5 or 6 in 120 OLD. Better to go smaller up front to get the gears you need either with a triple or a "compact" double.
05-10-21, 07:45 AM
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In the 1960s Chuck Harris offered super wide gearing set-ups in limited quantitites, under his Beech Hill brand. Frank Berto reported that Harris' favourite set-up paired a 13-17-26-34-42T freewheel with 68/44/26T chainrings. In addition to manufacturing the cogs and chainrings, he also manufactured the deralilleurs to handle them.
05-10-21, 08:39 AM
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In the 1960s Chuck Harris offered super wide gearing set-ups in limited quantitites, under his Beech Hill brand. Frank Berto reported that Harris' favourite set-up paired a 13-17-26-34-42T freewheel with 68/44/26T chainrings. In addition to manufacturing the cogs and chainrings, he also manufactured the deralilleurs to handle them.
05-10-21, 08:47 AM
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For the Back In The Day part of it, I think it was less an issue of lack of demand and more that triple cranksets with small inner chainrings were a far better/easier solution. For all the reasons called out above.
I think the move to those few 38t freewheels was due to the touring boom and the emergence of the ATB market, where a larger number of buyers found a need for gears lower than 24f/34r. And by then the market was moving to 126mm axle spacing.
For the present day part of it, I think it's a combination of lack of enthusiast demand for 120mm freewheels, and low overall production volume. But I know pretty much nothing about modern worldwide low-end bicycle spec.
And for significantly lower gears on a vintage 120mm-axle rig, either a triple w/tiny granny gear or a double with significantly smaller rings is still the easiest/best route to Low Gear Nirvana. And good luck trying to find a front der that's going to allow a small outer ring on a vintage frame with over-bb cable routing. Even under-bb routing can be tough.
I think the move to those few 38t freewheels was due to the touring boom and the emergence of the ATB market, where a larger number of buyers found a need for gears lower than 24f/34r. And by then the market was moving to 126mm axle spacing.
For the present day part of it, I think it's a combination of lack of enthusiast demand for 120mm freewheels, and low overall production volume. But I know pretty much nothing about modern worldwide low-end bicycle spec.
And for significantly lower gears on a vintage 120mm-axle rig, either a triple w/tiny granny gear or a double with significantly smaller rings is still the easiest/best route to Low Gear Nirvana. And good luck trying to find a front der that's going to allow a small outer ring on a vintage frame with over-bb cable routing. Even under-bb routing can be tough.
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05-10-21, 12:11 PM
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05-10-21, 05:58 PM
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that reminds me of a couple of articles in the Rivendell Reader about Mr. Chuck Harris.
I've got the first one scanned from issue #5 (just scanned it today).
There's another one that I have yet to scan, which gives details about one of his bikes and the drivetrain. Amazing stuff!
Steve in Peoria, where the scanner has been getting a heck of a workout lately!
I've got the first one scanned from issue #5 (just scanned it today).
There's another one that I have yet to scan, which gives details about one of his bikes and the drivetrain. Amazing stuff!
Steve in Peoria, where the scanner has been getting a heck of a workout lately!
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05-10-21, 06:24 PM
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5 speed freewheeled bikes were often setup for half step gearing.
14-17-21-26-32 and say a 45/50 up front. That is what I used. I don't recall anything bigger than 32 and if so, it would mess up the half step pattern.
14-17-21-26-32 and say a 45/50 up front. That is what I used. I don't recall anything bigger than 32 and if so, it would mess up the half step pattern.
05-10-21, 06:30 PM
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I have a 14-17-21-26-32-38 Suntour Perfect on my Miyata 1000, with a 28-42-46 in front. It's a good half-step setup. I don't use the 28-38 very often, but I find it comforting to have it available.
Suntour Perfects are cheap, plentiful, and easy to customize. The 38 cogs aren't exactly plentiful, but they're not hen's teeth, either.
Suntour Perfects are cheap, plentiful, and easy to customize. The 38 cogs aren't exactly plentiful, but they're not hen's teeth, either.
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05-10-21, 06:49 PM
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My "Beast of the East" Suntour ProCompe Ultra spaced 6 speed in my 120mm spaced 1971 Schwinn Paramount P13.
IIRC, 17-20-25-30-34-38 coupled to 50-42-31.
The Suntour 38T will fit on Perfect, ProCompe, Winner, New Winner, and Winner Pro and I believe Alpha bodies. They are not easy to find, but keep checking ebay.
IIRC, 17-20-25-30-34-38 coupled to 50-42-31.
The Suntour 38T will fit on Perfect, ProCompe, Winner, New Winner, and Winner Pro and I believe Alpha bodies. They are not easy to find, but keep checking ebay.
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05-10-21, 07:13 PM
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My "Beast of the East" Suntour ProCompe Ultra spaced 6 speed in my 120mm spaced 1971 Schwinn Paramount P13.
..........
IIRC, 17-20-25-30-34-38 coupled to 50-42-31.
The Suntour 38T will fit on Perfect, ProCompe, Winner, New Winner, and Winner Pro and I believe Alpha bodies. They are not easy to find, but keep checking ebay.
..........
IIRC, 17-20-25-30-34-38 coupled to 50-42-31.
The Suntour 38T will fit on Perfect, ProCompe, Winner, New Winner, and Winner Pro and I believe Alpha bodies. They are not easy to find, but keep checking ebay.
A mystery for the ages!
... or did the Duopar-ish Mountech handle cogs of that size?....
I'm also trying to figure out why I have this derailleur, but no plans to ever use it.
Steve in Peoria
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05-10-21, 07:16 PM
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I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why SunTour made a 38T cog when none of their derailleurs (to my knowledge) could handle it.
A mystery for the ages!
... or did the Duopar-ish Mountech handle cogs of that size?....
I'm also trying to figure out why I have this derailleur, but no plans to ever use it.
Steve in Peoria
A mystery for the ages!
... or did the Duopar-ish Mountech handle cogs of that size?....
I'm also trying to figure out why I have this derailleur, but no plans to ever use it.
Steve in Peoria
05-10-21, 07:26 PM
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I've been riding my Borthwick for TOMRV lately, configured with one of those fancy modern 8 speed cassettes. I think it is 11-28 right now, and with the 34-50 compact crank, it handles the hills of TOMRV well enough.
I'm pretty sure I used to ride the Borthwick with a 39 x 26 low gear, but that was probably 30 years ago. The hills were smaller then.
Steve in Peoria
05-10-21, 07:38 PM
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I had to do a double take. I have a coupled bike in British Racing Green.
05-10-21, 07:53 PM
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maybe if I was running a 42-52 crankset.
I've been riding my Borthwick for TOMRV lately, configured with one of those fancy modern 8 speed cassettes. I think it is 11-28 right now, and with the 34-50 compact crank, it handles the hills of TOMRV well enough.
I'm pretty sure I used to ride the Borthwick with a 39 x 26 low gear, but that was probably 30 years ago. The hills were smaller then.
Steve in Peoria
I've been riding my Borthwick for TOMRV lately, configured with one of those fancy modern 8 speed cassettes. I think it is 11-28 right now, and with the 34-50 compact crank, it handles the hills of TOMRV well enough.
I'm pretty sure I used to ride the Borthwick with a 39 x 26 low gear, but that was probably 30 years ago. The hills were smaller then.
Steve in Peoria
05-10-21, 08:01 PM
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I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why SunTour made a 38T cog when none of their derailleurs (to my knowledge) could handle it.
A mystery for the ages!
... or did the Duopar-ish Mountech handle cogs of that size?....
I'm also trying to figure out why I have this derailleur, but no plans to ever use it.
Steve in Peoria
A mystery for the ages!
... or did the Duopar-ish Mountech handle cogs of that size?....
I'm also trying to figure out why I have this derailleur, but no plans to ever use it.
Steve in Peoria
Last edited by clubman; 05-10-21 at 08:06 PM.
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05-10-21, 08:13 PM
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SunTour AG Tech derailleur (5000)
this has a discussion of the AG rear derailleur and Suntour’s 14-38 5 speed freewheel
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05-10-21, 09:00 PM
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