n2t

Hello again guys...I may have made a mistake? I posted the thread first new bike in years and picked up a Trek Verve 3. And when riding it by my house, and turning right, staying on black top...it was fine. But I was getting a lot of sliding in gravel and on washboard was really having to ride the brakes. Then my buddy invited me to an intermediate trail ride. And I took him up. I spent most of the time walking my bike. I slid on grass, I slid in sand, I slid on rocks. Hills were too hard to climb as my back tire spun and slipped and got me nowhere. Turning was horrid. My GF who isn't a bike was behind me on a 400 dollar Bikes Direct Gravity and had to pass me as I struggled. This trail is 20 mins from my house and the area actually has 6 trails, the one I was on was the easiest, though still listed "difficult". Being as this is the area I am most likely to ride regularly. I headed over to the local bike shop and traded for a Roscoe 6. It was a spur of the moment decision and the first bike Trek had suggested before I got the Verve. Did I make an error or was this an upgrade for my type of use?

70sSanO

The Verve 3 is a hybrid. The geometry isn’t a good choice for mtb trails, especially technical trails. You can probably swap out the tires so they won’t slip as much, but you will be limited on the width of tires you can use. The Verve will have limitations with low end gearing.

The Roscoe 6 is a mtb and will be a better choice for technical trails. You will be high end gearing challenged, 28-11, so it won’t be as good on faster gravel. The Suntour coil spring fork will probably leave you wanted to upgrade to an air fork.

John

n2t

So they took back the verve and I got the Roscoe for 1200. I know it's not the fastest, but I'm 43 and no speed demon. I am riding this on hunting trails, and I live on dirt roads and gravel. I'm not doing fast downhills, just controlled rides. I was doing great on the Verve on blacktop, but getting wrecked on gravel and dirt. Since 90% of my riding is gravel and dirt, that was kinda an issue. I know the Roscoe 6 is the low end Roscoe, and the forks are less than ideal, but my GF was riding a Bikesdirect mtn bike with Suntour lower end forks and crushed me. They soaked up the small stuff a lot easier where I was slipping, sliding, losing control and taking a beating the whole time. I'm hoping I didn't just make a bad choice spur of the moment, and if I do decide to upgrade forks, doesn't Suntour have an upgrade program?

Tomm Willians

What tires and pressure are you running? Paved road pressures usually don’t work as well off-road.

n2t

Not sure, probably higher than I should have for sure. But they were also narrow and slick. Hopefully a 200 dollar tire change wouldn't have solved the problem and I just dropped 1200 bucks for nothing, lol.

70sSanO

So they credited the Verve 3 towards the Roscoe 6?

If you are riding more mtb trails, you did fine.

I can hit 15mph on my 26” mtb with a 34-13. Your 28-11 with 27.5 is probably close to that.

John

n2t

Yeah, they credited me. Which I think was more than fair. I had already put 40 miles on the Verve. I won't lie, walking my bike most of the trail was a real bummer. And the fact that my GF was behind me in a 400 dollar mountain bike... Since this network of trails is right by my house and I spend a LOT of time up in that area. It seemed silly to keep a bike where I was struggling so bad. I couldn't climb, I couldn't make hills, I was sliding like I was on an ice rink. I felt like I just couldn't make the bike do what I wanted. Where as she, who isn't a rider either was eating me alive with a 400 dollar mtn bike with coil spring shocks and no lockout. The shocks on the Roscoe being Suntour scares me..but other than that...it seems like the bike fits my needs more.

70sSanO

Getting credited for the Verve basically let you try it out.

Just ride the Roscoe and have fun with it.

John

Edit added: Suntour does make some air shocks that are decent without breaking the bank. If you ever want a change.

katsup

Watch Hardtail Party's review of the Roscoe.

Note that the Roscoe 7 and higher are better geometry than the 6. He covers that in the video.

n2t

I've actually watched that, the 7 is a huge step up. However the Roscoe 6 was 1299 and the Roscoe 7 was 1843. That's close to 600 dollars difference and I, not having ridden a real bike in decades will not notice 3 degrees here and there. The forks are an upgrade, but what forks will the 600 dollar difference get me after market once I learn more about them? I kinda felt the 6 was my best bang for the buck entry.

Kapusta

Of course the Roscoe is a better bike for mountain biking than the Verve. It is a mountain bike, the Verve is not. What is your question, exactly?

Milton Keynes

I would bet anything it's the narrow and slick road tires which were causing your problems. I've ridden narrow (700x25) tires on gravel, but never again. It gets pretty hairy especially in large, loose gravel. That's why I have a separate bike for riding on gravel, and my 25mm tires only stay on pavement.

katsup

The fork on the Roscoe 7 will cost you about $300 new. Then it's only $300 more for a better base.

There are other significant differences between the two, such as 29" tires, 10sp vs 12sp, boost rear hub and almost 5 pounds lighter
https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=t...-roscoe-7-2022

In any case, if you are happy with the 6, then ignore me.

big john

Obviously riding on dirt and gravel takes practice, skills need to be learned, etc. The tires and tire pressure are a huge factor. You will skate around on good mtb tires if the pressure is too high. Sometimes you have to experiment with pressure to find what works best.

On my last mtb with 26x2.3 tires, I never used more than 30 psi and sometimes lower than that. The bike I use now has 27.5x2.8 tires and I run 15 psi in front and 17-23 in the rear, depending.

When I used to ride dirt bikes I ran 9 psi in the front tire for the dry, slippery terrain we have. Yes, 9 psi.

Certain tires work better in certain conditions but whatever tires you have will be affected by pressure. Beyond that it takes time to get used to the bike sliding around a little.

biker128pedal

Ride it like you stole it. Hit the trails. Replace what breaks. After a couple of years save and upgrade.

DMC707

This.

However OP, if it ever becomes an issue, -- i thought Suntour sold a air conversion kit for some of their forks , --- but i recall your original post about the Verve and thinking it looked like a nice bike for your needs, -- but granted i didnt check out the tires that closely.

Im betting the Sun tour fork will hold up fine for most uses though

raqball

When buying a bike know it's intended use and do some research via other riders you know, here and other places on the internet. The Verve is more hybrid and not really suited if you want to ride the harder and more technical MTB type off road trails. You could have saved yourself some trouble had you done a little more research before buying the Verve..

Glad you got it sorted out but something to consider for your next bike purchase.

VegasTriker

If I crash a bike on gravel or sand, I usually blame it on myself, not the bike. I've long ago changed the tires on my two MTBs to city tires for riding on the road so I don't use it off road very often. I don't expect relatively smooth tires to work well on gravel or sand. They are a lot quieter and smoother riding than the original MTB tires.

I looked at the specs for the 2022 Trek Roscoe 6 and saw the tires are Schwalbe Rocket Ron 27.5 x 2.8. That's wider than what I was using for off road on my old bikes and the picture shows a knobby tire with what Schwalbe advertises as "Super Ground Addix Speed Grip". I'm no fan of Schwalbe on my recumbents but most people who use them are happy. The Bontrager H5 tires on the Verve 3 are about the same as my city tires. I wouldn't expect them to be suitable for riding on loose gravel. They are about an inch narrower than on your new bike. I didn't crash a lot when I was using knobby tires in the past.

n2t

Well, it's better than the Verve for my needs (I had thought I could just put wider, more aggressive tires on and be ok...but I think there may be more to it than that. My hope is that the Roscoe 6 is decent, because I really can't do 1800 bucks for the 7. 1200 is tough enough....so I hope that I still got something decent for the money.

n2t

Well, it's better than the Verve for my needs (I had thought I could just put wider, more aggressive tires on and be ok...but I think there may be more to it than that. My hope is that the Roscoe 6 is decent, because I really can't do 1800 bucks for the 7. 1200 is tough enough....so I hope that I still got something decent for the money.

n2t

Yeah, being a person that hasn't biked much, I thought I would stay on pavement and light dirt road. Then hunting trails came up...then all my buddies heard that I was getting back into biking and wanted me to join them on some local trails, then my GF wanted to hit some trails..and it became a thing....

n2t

I think I'll be happy with the 6 for a while. I'm coming from a 400 dollar Bikesdirect and haven't ridden in a decade or two. This is kinda a huge step up for me, lol.

n2t

That's kinda what I'm thinking and if I really feel the need, do the Suntour upgrade program and get an air shock.

n2t

100%, I had talked to Trek on several occasions and a couple local bike shops and thought the Verve would fit my needs. But I wasn't expecting the number of people around me that were mountain bike trail riders. So what I thought were my needs (dirt roads, fitness, biking out my front door) turned into invites to actual bike trails and a renewed interest in biking from the GF who instantly started researching what was around it. Kinda thought I would hop on and go down the road and just put in miles for fitness. Now I find there's three trails within 20 mins of my house. So my expectations changed quickly. Worst case would have been me buying two bikes. One for road, one for trails, and I may end up doing that anyway, but trails seems to be the more likely ride now.

n2t

Oh I knew they would be a little rough, but I figured I would try it. Once I realized that what I thought I was going to do wasn't what I would be doing...I had to decide if I was going to upgrade or buy two bikes right off. The upgrade is easier, and I doubt I'll be mad I have those tires on the dirt roads near my house either.