New bike again, I may have made an error?
#1
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New bike again, I may have made an error?
Hello again guys...I may have made a mistake? I posted the thread first new bike in years and picked up a Trek Verve 3. And when riding it by my house, and turning right, staying on black top...it was fine. But I was getting a lot of sliding in gravel and on washboard was really having to ride the brakes. Then my buddy invited me to an intermediate trail ride. And I took him up. I spent most of the time walking my bike. I slid on grass, I slid in sand, I slid on rocks. Hills were too hard to climb as my back tire spun and slipped and got me nowhere. Turning was horrid. My GF who isn't a bike was behind me on a 400 dollar Bikes Direct Gravity and had to pass me as I struggled. This trail is 20 mins from my house and the area actually has 6 trails, the one I was on was the easiest, though still listed "difficult". Being as this is the area I am most likely to ride regularly. I headed over to the local bike shop and traded for a Roscoe 6. It was a spur of the moment decision and the first bike Trek had suggested before I got the Verve. Did I make an error or was this an upgrade for my type of use?
#2
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The Verve 3 is a hybrid. The geometry isn’t a good choice for mtb trails, especially technical trails. You can probably swap out the tires so they won’t slip as much, but you will be limited on the width of tires you can use. The Verve will have limitations with low end gearing.
The Roscoe 6 is a mtb and will be a better choice for technical trails. You will be high end gearing challenged, 28-11, so it won’t be as good on faster gravel. The Suntour coil spring fork will probably leave you wanted to upgrade to an air fork.
John
The Roscoe 6 is a mtb and will be a better choice for technical trails. You will be high end gearing challenged, 28-11, so it won’t be as good on faster gravel. The Suntour coil spring fork will probably leave you wanted to upgrade to an air fork.
John
#3
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The Verve 3 is a hybrid. The geometry isn’t a good choice for mtb trails, especially technical trails. You can probably swap out the tires so they won’t slip as much, but you will be limited on the width of tires you can use. The Verve will have limitations with low end gearing.
The Roscoe 6 is a mtb and will be a better choice for technical trails. You will be high end gearing challenged, 28-11, so it won’t be as good on faster gravel. The Suntour coil spring fork will probably leave you wanted to upgrade to an air fork.
John
The Roscoe 6 is a mtb and will be a better choice for technical trails. You will be high end gearing challenged, 28-11, so it won’t be as good on faster gravel. The Suntour coil spring fork will probably leave you wanted to upgrade to an air fork.
John
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What tires and pressure are you running? Paved road pressures usually don’t work as well off-road.
#5
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Not sure, probably higher than I should have for sure. But they were also narrow and slick. Hopefully a 200 dollar tire change wouldn't have solved the problem and I just dropped 1200 bucks for nothing, lol.
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So they credited the Verve 3 towards the Roscoe 6?
If you are riding more mtb trails, you did fine.
I can hit 15mph on my 26” mtb with a 34-13. Your 28-11 with 27.5 is probably close to that.
John
If you are riding more mtb trails, you did fine.
I can hit 15mph on my 26” mtb with a 34-13. Your 28-11 with 27.5 is probably close to that.
John
#7
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Yeah, they credited me. Which I think was more than fair. I had already put 40 miles on the Verve. I won't lie, walking my bike most of the trail was a real bummer. And the fact that my GF was behind me in a 400 dollar mountain bike... Since this network of trails is right by my house and I spend a LOT of time up in that area. It seemed silly to keep a bike where I was struggling so bad. I couldn't climb, I couldn't make hills, I was sliding like I was on an ice rink. I felt like I just couldn't make the bike do what I wanted. Where as she, who isn't a rider either was eating me alive with a 400 dollar mtn bike with coil spring shocks and no lockout. The shocks on the Roscoe being Suntour scares me..but other than that...it seems like the bike fits my needs more.
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Getting credited for the Verve basically let you try it out.
Just ride the Roscoe and have fun with it.
John
Edit added: Suntour does make some air shocks that are decent without breaking the bank. If you ever want a change.
Just ride the Roscoe and have fun with it.
John
Edit added: Suntour does make some air shocks that are decent without breaking the bank. If you ever want a change.
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#9
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Watch Hardtail Party's review of the Roscoe.
Note that the Roscoe 7 and higher are better geometry than the 6. He covers that in the video.
Note that the Roscoe 7 and higher are better geometry than the 6. He covers that in the video.
#10
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Watch Hardtail Party's review of the Roscoe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_YsFYCBsck
Note that the Roscoe 7 and higher are better geometry than the 6. He covers that in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_YsFYCBsck
Note that the Roscoe 7 and higher are better geometry than the 6. He covers that in the video.
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Of course the Roscoe is a better bike for mountain biking than the Verve. It is a mountain bike, the Verve is not. What is your question, exactly?
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I would bet anything it's the narrow and slick road tires which were causing your problems. I've ridden narrow (700x25) tires on gravel, but never again. It gets pretty hairy especially in large, loose gravel. That's why I have a separate bike for riding on gravel, and my 25mm tires only stay on pavement.
#13
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I've actually watched that, the 7 is a huge step up. However the Roscoe 6 was 1299 and the Roscoe 7 was 1843. That's close to 600 dollars difference and I, not having ridden a real bike in decades will not notice 3 degrees here and there. The forks are an upgrade, but what forks will the 600 dollar difference get me after market once I learn more about them? I kinda felt the 6 was my best bang for the buck entry.
There are other significant differences between the two, such as 29" tires, 10sp vs 12sp, boost rear hub and almost 5 pounds lighter
https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=t...-roscoe-7-2022
In any case, if you are happy with the 6, then ignore me.
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Obviously riding on dirt and gravel takes practice, skills need to be learned, etc. The tires and tire pressure are a huge factor. You will skate around on good mtb tires if the pressure is too high. Sometimes you have to experiment with pressure to find what works best.
On my last mtb with 26x2.3 tires, I never used more than 30 psi and sometimes lower than that. The bike I use now has 27.5x2.8 tires and I run 15 psi in front and 17-23 in the rear, depending.
When I used to ride dirt bikes I ran 9 psi in the front tire for the dry, slippery terrain we have. Yes, 9 psi.
Certain tires work better in certain conditions but whatever tires you have will be affected by pressure. Beyond that it takes time to get used to the bike sliding around a little.
On my last mtb with 26x2.3 tires, I never used more than 30 psi and sometimes lower than that. The bike I use now has 27.5x2.8 tires and I run 15 psi in front and 17-23 in the rear, depending.
When I used to ride dirt bikes I ran 9 psi in the front tire for the dry, slippery terrain we have. Yes, 9 psi.
Certain tires work better in certain conditions but whatever tires you have will be affected by pressure. Beyond that it takes time to get used to the bike sliding around a little.
Last edited by big john; 09-12-22 at 04:21 PM.
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Ride it like you stole it. Hit the trails. Replace what breaks. After a couple of years save and upgrade.
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This.
However OP, if it ever becomes an issue, -- i thought Suntour sold a air conversion kit for some of their forks , --- but i recall your original post about the Verve and thinking it looked like a nice bike for your needs, -- but granted i didnt check out the tires that closely.
Im betting the Sun tour fork will hold up fine for most uses though
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When buying a bike know it's intended use and do some research via other riders you know, here and other places on the internet. The Verve is more hybrid and not really suited if you want to ride the harder and more technical MTB type off road trails. You could have saved yourself some trouble had you done a little more research before buying the Verve..
Glad you got it sorted out but something to consider for your next bike purchase.
Glad you got it sorted out but something to consider for your next bike purchase.
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If I crash a bike on gravel or sand, I usually blame it on myself, not the bike. I've long ago changed the tires on my two MTBs to city tires for riding on the road so I don't use it off road very often. I don't expect relatively smooth tires to work well on gravel or sand. They are a lot quieter and smoother riding than the original MTB tires.
I looked at the specs for the 2022 Trek Roscoe 6 and saw the tires are Schwalbe Rocket Ron 27.5 x 2.8. That's wider than what I was using for off road on my old bikes and the picture shows a knobby tire with what Schwalbe advertises as "Super Ground Addix Speed Grip". I'm no fan of Schwalbe on my recumbents but most people who use them are happy. The Bontrager H5 tires on the Verve 3 are about the same as my city tires. I wouldn't expect them to be suitable for riding on loose gravel. They are about an inch narrower than on your new bike. I didn't crash a lot when I was using knobby tires in the past.
I looked at the specs for the 2022 Trek Roscoe 6 and saw the tires are Schwalbe Rocket Ron 27.5 x 2.8. That's wider than what I was using for off road on my old bikes and the picture shows a knobby tire with what Schwalbe advertises as "Super Ground Addix Speed Grip". I'm no fan of Schwalbe on my recumbents but most people who use them are happy. The Bontrager H5 tires on the Verve 3 are about the same as my city tires. I wouldn't expect them to be suitable for riding on loose gravel. They are about an inch narrower than on your new bike. I didn't crash a lot when I was using knobby tires in the past.
#19
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Well, it's better than the Verve for my needs (I had thought I could just put wider, more aggressive tires on and be ok...but I think there may be more to it than that. My hope is that the Roscoe 6 is decent, because I really can't do 1800 bucks for the 7. 1200 is tough enough....so I hope that I still got something decent for the money.
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#21
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I would bet anything it's the narrow and slick road tires which were causing your problems. I've ridden narrow (700x25) tires on gravel, but never again. It gets pretty hairy especially in large, loose gravel. That's why I have a separate bike for riding on gravel, and my 25mm tires only stay on pavement.
#22
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The fork on the Roscoe 7 will cost you about $300 new. Then it's only $300 more for a better base.
There are other significant differences between the two, such as 29" tires, 10sp vs 12sp, boost rear hub and almost 5 pounds lighter
https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=t...-roscoe-7-2022
In any case, if you are happy with the 6, then ignore me.
There are other significant differences between the two, such as 29" tires, 10sp vs 12sp, boost rear hub and almost 5 pounds lighter
https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=t...-roscoe-7-2022
In any case, if you are happy with the 6, then ignore me.
#23
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Thread Starter
#24
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Thread Starter
When buying a bike know it's intended use and do some research via other riders you know, here and other places on the internet. The Verve is more hybrid and not really suited if you want to ride the harder and more technical MTB type off road trails. You could have saved yourself some trouble had you done a little more research before buying the Verve..
Glad you got it sorted out but something to consider for your next bike purchase.
Glad you got it sorted out but something to consider for your next bike purchase.
#25
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Thread Starter
If I crash a bike on gravel or sand, I usually blame it on myself, not the bike. I've long ago changed the tires on my two MTBs to city tires for riding on the road so I don't use it off road very often. I don't expect relatively smooth tires to work well on gravel or sand. They are a lot quieter and smoother riding than the original MTB tires.
I looked at the specs for the 2022 Trek Roscoe 6 and saw the tires are Schwalbe Rocket Ron 27.5 x 2.8. That's wider than what I was using for off road on my old bikes and the picture shows a knobby tire with what Schwalbe advertises as "Super Ground Addix Speed Grip". I'm no fan of Schwalbe on my recumbents but most people who use them are happy. The Bontrager H5 tires on the Verve 3 are about the same as my city tires. I wouldn't expect them to be suitable for riding on loose gravel. They are about an inch narrower than on your new bike. I didn't crash a lot when I was using knobby tires in the past.
I looked at the specs for the 2022 Trek Roscoe 6 and saw the tires are Schwalbe Rocket Ron 27.5 x 2.8. That's wider than what I was using for off road on my old bikes and the picture shows a knobby tire with what Schwalbe advertises as "Super Ground Addix Speed Grip". I'm no fan of Schwalbe on my recumbents but most people who use them are happy. The Bontrager H5 tires on the Verve 3 are about the same as my city tires. I wouldn't expect them to be suitable for riding on loose gravel. They are about an inch narrower than on your new bike. I didn't crash a lot when I was using knobby tires in the past.