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Western US cyclist: are you riding in the smoke?

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Western US cyclist: are you riding in the smoke?

Old 09-11-20, 08:37 AM
  #26  
billridesbikes
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If it’s a green or yellow air day (<100) I’m fine with it. If it rises to orange or red I’ll skip any recreational riding. Purple and I’m staying inside with the doors and windows shut.


Airnow.gov
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Old 09-11-20, 08:44 AM
  #27  
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LOL, if you live in the west and you want to ride you have to ride with the smoke. There really is no option unless we can ever get back to responsible fire management and stop all these huge crazy fires we see now days. Yet another mess created by overzealous environmentalist with too much political clout. We've really tipped over to the stupidity side of the scale as of late with our ability to manage these fire problems.
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Old 09-11-20, 10:32 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak
LOL, if you live in the west and you want to ride you have to ride with the smoke. There really is no option unless we can ever get back to responsible fire management and stop all these huge crazy fires we see now days. Yet another mess created by overzealous environmentalist with too much political clout. We've really tipped over to the stupidity side of the scale as of late with our ability to manage these fire problems.

It has nothing to do with environmentalists. Fire has always been part of the West, that coupled with a megadrought cycle is what is causing fires. There were much bigger fires out west in the 19th century, when we didn't have pesky environmentalists. In the 1800's it is estimated that each year some 145 million acres burned annually during fire season, about 10 times more than recent bad fire seasons.


If you mean responsible fire management is starting more proscribed burns, I would agree. But a policy of aggressive fire suppression is a fools errand that will cost huge amounts of money and kill firefighters for nothing.
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Old 09-11-20, 10:37 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by billridesbikes
It has nothing to do with environmentalists. Fire has always been part of the West, that coupled with a megadrought cycle is what is causing fires. There were much bigger fires out west in the 19th century, when we didn't have pesky environmentalists. In the 1800's it is estimated that each year some 145 million acres burned annually during fire season, about 10 times more than recent bad fire seasons.


If you mean responsible fire management is starting more proscribed burns, I would agree. But a policy of aggressive fire suppression is a fools errand that will cost huge amounts of money and kill firefighters for nothing.
Prescribed burns is exactly what I'm talking about. It is at the heart of the problems we keep encountering now days. Effective preventative programs have been squashed and have us in the position we are in now.
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Old 09-11-20, 11:02 AM
  #30  
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I'm in the SW USA, and we had some kind of haze earlier this week (Mon/Tues I think) that I think was from the SoCal fires. It all cleared up by Wednesday and yesterday was very clear. I rode my usual 35 km after-work route yesterday but I took my touring bike out to test some new bits. The air quality was actually great and the temperature was considerably cooler than the last time I went out (92F vs 109F OR 33.3C vs 42.7C) The worst part about the ride was that apparently my rear brake was rubbing in one spot. So tonight I get to futz around with my rear wheel and try to re-adjust the brake, and I get to finish upgrading my wife's road bike from 7 speed to 9 speed (just have to mount the front derailleur and tune it up).

Today, the sky looks hazy again, like it did on Monday/Tuesday, but the air quality is being reported as not that bad. It's in the "unhealthy for sensitive groups" range. Idk if that's from the fires or just the usual late-summer crud here, since I've only been here for about 4 months.
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Old 09-11-20, 11:17 AM
  #31  
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Socal was at 53 on Wednesday so wife and I embarked on a 15 mile (round trip), 2000' ascent. Stopped and returned about halfway since our eyes were affected. Learned later that the national forest where we rode was closed. Yesterday was at 70 or so and the same today. Eschewed outdoor exercise yesterday, but may try today.
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Old 09-11-20, 11:20 AM
  #32  
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It's pretty awful today. I was hoping to ride outside, but I will be on Zwift again tonight.
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Old 09-11-20, 11:24 AM
  #33  
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Our AQI was 456 this morning, and we are on Level 1 evacuation notice, so we are not going far from the house for awhile. However, we have two of bikes ready to go on the bike rack if we do have to leave
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Old 09-11-20, 11:29 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak
LOL, if you live in the west and you want to ride you have to ride with the smoke. There really is no option unless we can ever get back to responsible fire management and stop all these huge crazy fires we see now days. Yet another mess created by overzealous environmentalist with too much political clout. We've really tipped over to the stupidity side of the scale as of late with our ability to manage these fire problems.
I totally disagree, and that is coming from a retired forester with 47 years experience. I echo billridesbikes' post.
Do a search for "fire return interval" and it will give you an idea of how 75 years of stomping out every small fire has actually increased the size and intensity of many fires today.

In Ponderosa pine timber type, which is common in eastern Oregon, the fire return interval was about 10-15 years in much of the area. This would reduce the amount of young undergrowth trees, ladder fuels, which made future low intensity fires in the area the norm, while leaving most of the larger trees unharmed.

For timber types west of the cascades the fire return interval was about 200 years. Most of the fires in this type were large and intense because of the tremendous fuel accumulations during that relative long period. Look at the Tillamook Burn history for a good example.

This is just a thumbnail sketch; you can find reams of papers written about this subject.

Contrary to popular opinion, Smokey the Bear was not as much a friend of the forests as he was made out to be. Yes, there are many times when it is necessary to suppress wildfires as quickly as possible. There are other times when thinning and controlled prescribed burns can reduce fuels and get the forests back into a more natural composition. California fires are another matter due to the fuel types.

And yes, Global warming is real!

Last edited by Doug64; 09-11-20 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 09-11-20, 11:58 AM
  #35  
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Right now, the AQI here (Grants Pass, OR) stands at 532. No way am I spending anymore time outdoors than absolutely necessary. Even indoor, my eyes are watering and I'm sneezing frequently. We've got 2 uncontained fires within 30 miles, both being driven our way by windy conditions. If I go outdoors today, it'll most likely be to evacuated.
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Old 09-11-20, 01:24 PM
  #36  
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/11/c...gtype=Homepage

Hope you can access this.
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Old 09-11-20, 01:30 PM
  #37  
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AQI is 144, higher than I've ever seen it here in Tacoma where it rarely surpasses 60 and is usually in the teens.

I just got back from Home Depot where I purchased two box fans and some air filters. Tape the air filter to the back of the fan and run it inside the house, hoping to clean up the air inside a bit. No AC here because it never gets that hot.

One of the two fans inoperable (faulty switch maybe?). Tried to blame it on China but it says "Proudly Built in the USA!" on the side fo the box. Oh well, at least I kept the receipt.
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Old 09-11-20, 01:41 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Doug64
Contrary to popular opinion, Smokey the Bear was not as much a friend of the forests as he was made out to be. Yes, there are many times when it is necessary to suppress wildfires as quickly as possible. There are other times when thinning and controlled prescribed burns can reduce fuels and get the forests back into a more natural composition. California fires are another matter due to the fuel types.

And yes, Global warming is real!
Wasn't "squash all fires immediately" originally about the timber companies not wanting to see their profits go up in smoke?
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Old 09-11-20, 01:43 PM
  #39  
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AQI is 245 here, and sitting inside with all the windows and doors shut I still have a headache and my throat is burning. No riding for awhile.
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Old 09-11-20, 01:56 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
When the wind is right, some days here in Nebr, we have a very red sun in the morning, and you can actually smell the smoke.
My house has been closed up since Monday morning. Smells and feels like a fireplace fire with the damper closed but it is still enough better than outside that we are just dealing with it. (I saw an AQI of 250, I have no reason to question it.) I took the furnace filter out (new last winter, should be in very good shape) and it was deep in dust the same color as the air outside.
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Old 09-11-20, 02:12 PM
  #41  
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Worst I've seen smoke in Seattle since moving up here nearly twenty years ago. Rode to the store, that's it.
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Old 09-11-20, 04:48 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Doug64
I totally disagree, and that is coming from a retired forester with 47 years experience. I echo billridesbikes' post.
Do a search for "fire return interval" and it will give you an idea of how 75 years of stomping out every small fire has actually increased the size and intensity of many fires today.

In Ponderosa pine timber type, which is common in eastern Oregon, the fire return interval was about 10-15 years in much of the area. This would reduce the amount of young undergrowth trees, ladder fuels, which made future low intensity fires in the area the norm, while leaving most of the larger trees unharmed.

For timber types west of the cascades the fire return interval was about 200 years. Most of the fires in this type were large and intense because of the tremendous fuel accumulations during that relative long period. Look at the Tillamook Burn history for a good example.

This is just a thumbnail sketch; you can find reams of papers written about this subject.

Contrary to popular opinion, Smokey the Bear was not as much a friend of the forests as he was made out to be. Yes, there are many times when it is necessary to suppress wildfires as quickly as possible. There are other times when thinning and controlled prescribed burns can reduce fuels and get the forests back into a more natural composition. California fires are another matter due to the fuel types.

And yes, Global warming is real!
LOL, I think my post was not very clear. I'm talking fire prevention methodology not quickly putting out a fire.
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Old 09-11-20, 04:57 PM
  #43  
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Played pickleball this morning in Tacoma before it got bright enough to see how bad it is. My throat still feels swollen, although toking 1-1.5g/day will also do that to you.
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Old 09-11-20, 05:23 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak
Prescribed burns is exactly what I'm talking about. It is at the heart of the problems we keep encountering now days. Effective preventative programs have been squashed and have us in the position we are in now.
The problem there isn't environmentalists. I would argue quite the opposite. The problem is that, due to a lack of sufficient regulation, people have been permitted to build way too many houses and towns in high fire danger areas. As a result, almost any fire is a huge problem. It makes it much more difficult to allow controlled burns in many areas. There should have been more land use regulation, not less.
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Old 09-11-20, 07:49 PM
  #45  
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I rode about 20 miles last night, probably unwise but after a stressful day of work it was needed. I don't know the AQI but visibility was less than a mile. On the bright side, the MUP was empty. Mask worn, for what that was worth.

I'll probably skip the weekend ride though.
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Old 09-11-20, 09:33 PM
  #46  
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AQI near Cle Elum (central Washington, eastern slope of the Cascades) early this morning was in the yellow zone so I went out of a 40 miler. Felt great and no after effects that I can detect. Air quality is deteriorating as I type, not planning to ride tomorrow (Saturday).
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Old 09-11-20, 10:40 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak
LOL, if you live in the west and you want to ride you have to ride with the smoke. There really is no option unless we can ever get back to responsible fire management and stop all these huge crazy fires we see now days. Yet another mess created by overzealous environmentalist with too much political clout. We've really tipped over to the stupidity side of the scale as of late with our ability to manage these fire problems.
get all the rednecks outta Cali. Most fires are start by these woody rednecks.
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Old 09-12-20, 03:20 AM
  #48  
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too many greasy palms in regards to land use regulation in the west. the southern tejon ranch area north of la on the east side of the
5 freeway along the "grapevine" is being developed for a massive amount of homes. there will eventually be a catastrophic wildfire event(s)
in an area not designed for the population density that is about to come into existence. it could be arson. it could be a downed power line.
it could be a spark from a motorcycle or a tossed cigarettte. doesn't really matter. loss of property, life and livelihood is always tragic but what is
it when it is calculated into the equation? am i/are we still supposed to feel sorry for you when you court disaster and discount it and then lose at the gambling table?

it's a combination of nimbys mixed with people actively selecting homes that deal with some amount of firescape/burn interface.
in san diego county (where i live), i would conservatively estimate that approx 15-20% of the entire country's population lives in a "fire zone."
when you realize that, under the right (or wrong) conditions, a wind-blown ember from an existing fire can travel over a half-mile to ignite another
blaze, it make you humble to the power of nature. there are many places we never should build or never should have built. in san diego
county alone, i'd point out most of both sides of the north/south 15 freeway corridor from the 8 freeway north to the border checkpoint south of temecula.
don't get me started on the santa monica mountains/hollywood hills in la. when winds are 50+ mph in a multiple times yearly santa ana condition, is it the fire depts
fault when they can't protect your home because you live in an indefensible area? you could have plenty of brush clearance space but if your eaves (or roof) are susceptible
(and many are), you could have six trucks and forty firefighters at your house attempting to solely save it and still fail under regularly experienced climactic conditions here in socal.

the nimbys complain that prescribed burns devalue their properties but then want (and get) taxpayer funds to rebuild after their houses go up in flames because
there's too much fuel nearby. repeat as necessary. is that fair? people actively live where they shouldn't and then get taxpayer bailout? similar to beachfront
home owners miffy about flooding/surge/wave damage but that's another topic (altho related). why are we paying for people to live in areas that they shouldn't?
the southern california scrub/chaparral community is meant to burn. it actively seeks it. a little like the ring looking to return to its' master in the lord of the rings trilogy.
not exactly the brightest idea to cozy up next to said community and expect it to behave when it only wants to party. and then the winter/spring mudslides when it does burn.
sorry not sorry if your poodle, labradoodle or housecat gets snarfed by a mountain lion or coyote. it's a sign and be glad it's not your 4 year old kiddo-because it could be.

really haven't ridden much the last two weeks because of the aq. hopefully soon tho.

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Old 09-12-20, 07:56 AM
  #49  
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AQI 240 this morning. Has gone up 40+ points in 24 hours. I am going for a power walk with a N95 industrial mask and see if I can manage not to fog up my glasses or have eye irritation. A bike ride does not sound like a good idea for awhile until a front blows the smoke out to the Inland Empire where riders are more hearty.
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Old 09-12-20, 10:07 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by jamesdak
Yet another mess created by overzealous environmentalist.
That's why the mega-fires in Oregon are interesting. The climate used to be cool, damp and rainy, which helped to contain wildfires. It provides a good control with respect to climate change vs "overzealous environmentalists" being at fault, especially with all of the clear-cutting.

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