Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

reliability of innertube patches

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

reliability of innertube patches

Old 04-28-17, 08:19 AM
  #26  
kcblair
Old Legs
 
kcblair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Mass.
Posts: 1,205

Bikes: '80 Strayvaigin, '84 Ciocc Aelle-Shimano 105, '90 Concorde Astore /Campy Triple ,85 Bridgestone 500/Suntour, 2005 Jamis Quest, 2017 Raleigh Merit 1, Raleigh Carbon Clubman

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 300 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
This. It's counterintuitive but that's the way.
Agree, it's important. Never had a patch leak. KB
kcblair is offline  
Old 04-28-17, 09:25 AM
  #27  
davidad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,622
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 558 Post(s)
Liked 159 Times in 128 Posts
A course sandpaper can cut small groves into the rubber that will allow air to leak out.
I repair most of my tubes at home after a ride. I sand and then clean them with acetone to remove the mold release. I let the cement dry for at least 5 minutes or more before installing the patch and then burnish the patch with an old socket.
davidad is offline  
Old 04-28-17, 11:33 AM
  #28  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,856

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 138 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5251 Post(s)
Liked 2,813 Times in 1,663 Posts
Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Are these regularly available at a LBS, or are they a special order thing? It would be nice to buy a couple nice patch sets, that can be used more than once, than cheap ones which are basically a one-time use because the glue dries out.
They should be available. If not, the shop can order them from QBP. Look for the green box.

__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 04-28-17, 01:28 PM
  #29  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1570 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times in 359 Posts
I can't remember ever having a bicycle tire patch fail but I don't get a whole lot of punctures so I have somewhat limited experience. Honestly, I don't do anything special.

I save up my punctured tubes for doing on a rainy Saturday. I like to do a batch at one time because the vulcanizing fluid seems to evaporate once the little tube is punctured. The directions on the patch kit say to let the vulcanizing fluid to dry for 5 minutes BY THE CLOCK. That's 1 reason why I don't like to patch on the road. 5 minutes seems like an eternity when you are waiting for the clock to go around. After I finish, I sprinkle a little baby powder around the patch so the tube won't stick to the inside of the tire.

We get lots of posts about using rubber cement or cutting up old tubes for patches etc. I don't do that. I'm about to the point of saving up my old tubes in a box for a couple of years, buying a brand new patch kit each time to repair them all, and throwing the remains of the patch kit away when I'm finished.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 05-06-17, 10:07 AM
  #30  
sbslider
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 317

Bikes: 2011 Surly Cross Check

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
I have had reasonably good experience with cheap chinease 25mm patches on road width tubes up until recently. Somewhere around a 90-95% success rate. I suspect the patches were bought 3 or more years ago. They sit in the garage in a ziplock. I generally gather up 10-15 tubes and patch them all at one setting. Kind of boring work but once you get in the groove its not so bad. Definitely don't patch on the road, although I did use glueless patches for a few years on the spot. I have found better patch reliability with my present method, but until recently.

My most recent batch of tubes I have patched, the patches are just not reliable. I have had multiple failures. I suspected that the patches are just old. They have always been too big for these tubes, but generally worked well. I did not realize patches have a shelf life until yesterday when I started looking into getting Rema patches to replace my old ones. The Rema website says 5 year shelf life. I suspect under the right conditions,that could be extended. But patches don't last forever.

https://www.rematiptop.com/technical/...be-Repairs.pdf

So, that is part of my rationale for this post. Long time member, but infrequent poster. I just bought 100 Rema F01 patches. I don't want to end up throwing away the last third of them. So I would like to offer smaller quantities to folks who are interested. I would like to keep 1/3 of these for the pile of tubes I have, and offer the remainder at what I think is a reasonable price. 33 patches shipped to you in an envelope (no tracking info) for $10. You can get them in 100 quantity for cheaper price per patch (as I did), but then you have 100 that may get old and be not effective toward the end. PM me if you are interested.

Last edited by sbslider; 05-06-17 at 10:42 AM.
sbslider is offline  
Old 05-06-17, 10:27 AM
  #31  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,343 Times in 850 Posts
Self Vulcanizing Fluid is not the same cas Rubber Cement.. good luck with your substitution.

like so many other jobs surface preparation is the Key.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 05-06-17, 10:39 AM
  #32  
wphamilton
Senior Member
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 340 Times in 227 Posts
Is this for sure vulcanizing and not just cement? I can't tell from the product page or googling, although AutoZone does list it under "Vulcanizing Cement". 8 oz can of Rema Vulcanizing costs more than twice, which makes me hesitant to trust that it's not just cement.

Originally Posted by johnny99 View Post
I use those little tubes for emergencies only. For home use, get an 8 ounce can of vulcanizing cement for $5-$7 at auto parts stores. Works great with bicycle patches.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003V9UU66
wphamilton is offline  
Old 05-06-17, 10:48 AM
  #33  
johnny99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 10,879
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Is this for sure vulcanizing and not just cement? I can't tell from the product page or googling, although AutoZone does list it under "Vulcanizing Cement". 8 oz can of Rema Vulcanizing costs more than twice, which makes me hesitant to trust that it's not just cement.
I have patched dozens of inner tubes with the Slime cement and genuine Rema patches. No problems. There is a nice brush inside the can that makes it very easy to apply in a thin smooth layer.
johnny99 is offline  
Old 05-06-17, 11:21 AM
  #34  
1989Pre
Standard Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Posts: 3,285

Bikes: 1948 P. Barnard & Son, 1962 Rudge Sports, 1963 Freddie Grubb Routier, 1980 Manufrance Hirondelle, 1983 F. Moser Sprint, 1989 Raleigh Technium Pre, 2001 Raleigh M80

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 893 Post(s)
Liked 238 Times in 151 Posts
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I use Park glueless patches. I have had great success with them, some have been on tubes for more than 2 years. I only throw away a tube after it gets another puncture after 3 patches, or a puncture in an unusual place.
I was skeptical of those, but the reviews were good, so I tried them.., and they work! I ride with 110psi in both tires and have never had a problem with a correctly-installed patch, whether from a kit, or one of the Parks glueless.
1989Pre is offline  
Old 05-06-17, 02:19 PM
  #35  
Arthur Peabody
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 528
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked 80 Times in 51 Posts
I use the cheapest patches 'Slime 4060-A Classic rubber patch kit 27-piece', not even made for bicycle tubes (cheapest at Autozone - even cheaper than Walmart). I cut the smallest patches in half, so I get some 60-70 patches in a kit (some of the patches are larger). I hate patching on a ride, so I replace the tube and repair it when I get home. I scuff the rubber rough, clean it with isopropanol, apply a lot of rubber cement, set a timer for 10 minutes, put the patch on then, clamp it with a couple of pieces of scavenged plastic (an old small patch kit, cut up) in a vise-grip, forget about it until the next day. They hold. I inflate to 105 psi.
Arthur Peabody is offline  
Old 05-07-17, 08:38 AM
  #36  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,856

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 138 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5251 Post(s)
Liked 2,813 Times in 1,663 Posts
Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
Is this for sure vulcanizing and not just cement? I can't tell from the product page or googling, although AutoZone does list it under "Vulcanizing Cement". 8 oz can of Rema Vulcanizing costs more than twice, which makes me hesitant to trust that it's not just cement.
It's hard to tell but from what I can tease out of the SDS on the Slime rubber cement and the Rema vulcanizing fluid, I would say that the Slime is just rubber cement. It's SDS says that it contains a number of hydrocarbons as solvents and under heading "Possibility of hazardous reactions", it only lists flammability hazards.

The Rema fluid, on the other hand, say the following about the hazardous reactions

Stability and Reactivity Data =================

Stability Indicator/Materials to Avoid:YES
STRONG ALKALIES, OXIDIZERS.
Stability Condition to Avoid:EXTREME HEAT, OPEN FLAME, WELDING ARCS
Hazardous Decomposition Products:BURNING: HYDROGEN CHLORIDE/TRACES OF PHOSGENE.
The hydrogen chloride and phosgene are decomposition products of the trichloroethylene (TCE) used as a solvent...the Slime cement doesn't have any of that. But the note to avoid strong alkalies and oxidizers are due to the presence of an accelerator in the fluid. Oxidizers and alkalies shouldn't have any effect on TCE.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 05-07-17, 01:52 PM
  #37  
wphamilton
Senior Member
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 340 Times in 227 Posts
Originally Posted by johnny99 View Post
I have patched dozens of inner tubes with the Slime cement and genuine Rema patches. No problems.
I understand - I just want to verify whether it is actually vulcanizing, because I prefer that to cement for long-term reliability.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
It's hard to tell but from what I can tease out of the SDS on the Slime rubber cement and the Rema vulcanizing fluid, I would say that the Slime is just rubber cement.
Thanks.
wphamilton is offline  
Old 05-07-17, 02:00 PM
  #38  
Bike Gremlin
Mostly harmless
 
Bike Gremlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Novi Sad
Posts: 4,271

Bikes: Custom made on Scott Speedster frame, Custom made on a 1996. steel MTB frame (all but frame changed at least once in the past 20 years).

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1026 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 74 Posts
Vulcanizing (proper one) doesn't allow patches to be removed with heat.

Rema patches can be removed with heat. So it's not vulcanizing, but the patch will stick very well, if patched properly. Better than most other I've tried.

I now use only Rema glue and patches.
Bike Gremlin is offline  
Old 05-07-17, 07:42 PM
  #39  
TheLastOfUs
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i hear stability depends on puncture size
TheLastOfUs is offline  
Old 05-07-17, 07:52 PM
  #40  
drlogik 
Senior Member
 
drlogik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,611

Bikes: '87-ish Pinarello Montello; '89 Nishiki Ariel; '85 Raleigh Wyoming, '16 Wabi Special, '16 Wabi Classic, '14 Kona Cinder Cone

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 621 Post(s)
Liked 324 Times in 196 Posts
Over the years I've boiled good long standing patches to these main points:

1) If you're at home, wipe the hole area with alcohol and a rag before buffing with sandpaper. This gets the tube clean which is important.
2) Use good quality vulcanizing fluid not the cheap stuff.
3) Let glue dry until it is bone dry (as has been stated)
4) Really "stitch" the patch onto the tube. The round edge of a wooden spoon works well. I've also used the end of a small Crescent wrench. A tire lever will work also. Work it back and forth crisscrossing as you go. Press hard! This step may be the most important for patch longevity.

Side notes: I, too, use Rema patches and fluid. I use regular 100 to 120 grit sandpaper to buff the tube. Wrap the sandpaper around a round wooden dowel and sand tube on your knee. I also use the 92% rubbing alcohol so that it dries fast. Don't over-saturate to prevent it from going down into the hole being patched.

Funny thing...we recently moved and I found an old tube in a box. The tube was probably 20 years old or more as it was a 27 x 1 14" tube and I haven't had those in years. Patch was still stuck good but the tube was deteriorating. The patch outlasted the tube.


-

Last edited by drlogik; 05-07-17 at 08:01 PM.
drlogik is offline  
Old 05-08-17, 07:45 AM
  #41  
u235
Senior Member
 
u235's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times in 86 Posts
Originally Posted by Arthur Peabody View Post
I use the cheapest patches 'Slime 4060-A Classic rubber patch kit 27-piece', not even made for bicycle tubes (cheapest at Autozone - even cheaper than Walmart).
I have the same kit. I have been using it for years mainly on tubes less than 70psi. No tricks or rituals. I rough up a little, apply a light amount of glue to tube, apply patch, hold for a minute or so, reassemble. I'll round the corners of the square patches but I haven't done any repeatable tests or research to see if that really matters or not. I usually get new tubes with new tires if they have any patches or after about the 3rd patch on one tube, which ever comes first. I recently switched to just having Skabs with me for quick fixes, I've only had to use one so far and it worked.

Last edited by u235; 05-08-17 at 08:08 AM.
u235 is offline  
Old 05-08-17, 08:37 AM
  #42  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,856

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 138 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5251 Post(s)
Liked 2,813 Times in 1,663 Posts
Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Vulcanizing (proper one) doesn't allow patches to be removed with heat.

Rema patches can be removed with heat. So it's not vulcanizing, but the patch will stick very well, if patched properly. Better than most other I've tried.

I now use only Rema glue and patches.
Rema is, indeed, cold vulcanization. It makes new rubber. If the patch can be removed with heat, there are factors that influence that. The adhesion of a Rema patch is immediate but the chemical reaction takes time to complete. How long that is, I can't say but I suspect that it takes quite a while as this is a room temperature process which can be very slow.

Incomplete buffing of the tube may result in the patch not completely adhering as well. The reaction can form new rubber with the tube if it is blocked by non-rubber substances. Overbuffing can also have a similar result as it pushes particles down into the tube which results in poor adhesion and incomplete reaction.

Another, very important factor, is the concentration of reactants. Rema's system is a two component system with a reactant and an promoter in the two different parts of the system. I'm not sure whether the patch contains the reactant or if the vulcanizing fluid contains the promoter or vise versa. But the amount of each is limited. We tend to make a very thin layer of fluid so that it dries more quickly but that may not be enough for the reaction to run to completion.

Finally, there is a shelf life to the patches. Rema says 5 years, which I assume is at room temperature. Many people may have patches that are many years older than that...I know I do...and they aren't usually stored at the optimal temperature.

They are very good patches but they do have to be installed and used properly. Frankly, I've never tried to remove one at all. I don't know why you would.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
gearbasher
Classic & Vintage
9
05-31-18 01:45 PM
AS Collie
Bicycle Mechanics
30
01-29-14 05:55 AM
Scorer75
Road Cycling
31
10-03-13 01:45 PM
DOS
Bicycle Mechanics
71
12-30-12 04:18 PM
wroomwroomoops
Bicycle Mechanics
38
06-07-10 01:52 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.