Riding and being diabetic?
05-25-23, 09:34 AM
#27
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,095 Times
in
5,053 Posts
There seems to be an emerging consensus that some people can reverse it, but there's absolutely no consensus on the idea that this is universally true or even true for a substantial proportion of people with it. You might want to look at the research concerning T2D in India where the disease IS NOT linked to obesity. There's a very strong genetic component operating and a lot suggesting that obesity may be more of a symptom than a cause.
05-25-23, 09:40 AM
#28
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,095 Times
in
5,053 Posts
There seems to be a lot of misinformation about diabetes on this thread.
Firstly, the categorization of type 1, type 2, MODY, and LADA is still misleading. As we're finding more information about diabetes, it turns out there are way more types and originating factors than autoimmune and too much of the carb.
A pancreas can just give out. Sometimes organs do that. That's type 2 that isn't induced by bad habits.
Type 2 is also more hereditary than type 1, even though type 1 if often considered to be the hereditary type.
Type 2 can actually be a variation of MODY but diagnosed as type 2.
Type 2 also isn't really reversible. Once you have it, you're not getting rid of it no matter how well you control the symptoms. You might think you got rid of it, but you probably didn't.
What I'm saying is that it's complicated. Calling type 2 self inflicted is both false and unhelpful. While lifestyle choices can play a role in the onset of type 2 diabetes, they also may not.
Also, too much insulin doesn't cause health issues other than hypoglycemia. I don't understand where this myth that high insulin levels or insulin spikes cause harmful effects has come from. If you have high BG's and can't manage them without insulin, it is infintely better to lower them with supplemental insulin (alongside with other treatment options) than to try to tough it out until you get your insulin sensitivity back. Getting your insulin sensitivity back can take years but high BG's are causing damage NOW! So first, get your BG's to acceptable levels and if you need supplemental insulin, start working on lowerin that after your BG's are ok.
Insulin resistance is complicated. Stating it's caused by too much insulin is too simplified and false. Too much insulin plays a role, but high BG's cause insulin resistance as well both directly and also via secondary effects. Mainly low level infection, damage to the body and weakening of the immune system.
There are other things that can directly cause insulin resistance and the solution isn't just "get thin, exercise and eat less carbs".
Some alternative tips for getting insuling resistance in check.
1) Brush your teeth twice a day, floss regularly and get your teeth checked out and treated for any issues.
2) Get rid of any muscle spasms, tight shoulders, etc. Massage won't cut it. If you have chronically tight shoulders etc. you'll need to exercise those areas. Physio is good for that.
3) Try to verify you do not have any underlying chronic infections such as yeast infections, long term localized skin issues and that sort of thing.
Infections and various types of overloading of the body can cause insulin resistance. HIIT and other high intensity exercise can put your body on a rollercoaster ride of insulin resistance as those work by effectively overloading the body. It's a good idea to do them when able (verify that you're able) but don't be surprised if you have trouble managing blood glucose for up to a week after.
Even type 2's may need to refuel during exercise. Type 2's have glycogen stores just like everyone else. If they run out, they're going to bonk just as hard as anyone else. If you're type 2 and are going for a ride that's 2+ or 3+ hours long (and are not on keto or some other restrictive diet), it's a good idea to carry some carbs or have a rest stop planned as a backup plan in case you bonk or want to prevent a bonk.
Firstly, the categorization of type 1, type 2, MODY, and LADA is still misleading. As we're finding more information about diabetes, it turns out there are way more types and originating factors than autoimmune and too much of the carb.
A pancreas can just give out. Sometimes organs do that. That's type 2 that isn't induced by bad habits.
Type 2 is also more hereditary than type 1, even though type 1 if often considered to be the hereditary type.
Type 2 can actually be a variation of MODY but diagnosed as type 2.
Type 2 also isn't really reversible. Once you have it, you're not getting rid of it no matter how well you control the symptoms. You might think you got rid of it, but you probably didn't.
What I'm saying is that it's complicated. Calling type 2 self inflicted is both false and unhelpful. While lifestyle choices can play a role in the onset of type 2 diabetes, they also may not.
Also, too much insulin doesn't cause health issues other than hypoglycemia. I don't understand where this myth that high insulin levels or insulin spikes cause harmful effects has come from. If you have high BG's and can't manage them without insulin, it is infintely better to lower them with supplemental insulin (alongside with other treatment options) than to try to tough it out until you get your insulin sensitivity back. Getting your insulin sensitivity back can take years but high BG's are causing damage NOW! So first, get your BG's to acceptable levels and if you need supplemental insulin, start working on lowerin that after your BG's are ok.
Insulin resistance is complicated. Stating it's caused by too much insulin is too simplified and false. Too much insulin plays a role, but high BG's cause insulin resistance as well both directly and also via secondary effects. Mainly low level infection, damage to the body and weakening of the immune system.
There are other things that can directly cause insulin resistance and the solution isn't just "get thin, exercise and eat less carbs".
Some alternative tips for getting insuling resistance in check.
1) Brush your teeth twice a day, floss regularly and get your teeth checked out and treated for any issues.
2) Get rid of any muscle spasms, tight shoulders, etc. Massage won't cut it. If you have chronically tight shoulders etc. you'll need to exercise those areas. Physio is good for that.
3) Try to verify you do not have any underlying chronic infections such as yeast infections, long term localized skin issues and that sort of thing.
Infections and various types of overloading of the body can cause insulin resistance. HIIT and other high intensity exercise can put your body on a rollercoaster ride of insulin resistance as those work by effectively overloading the body. It's a good idea to do them when able (verify that you're able) but don't be surprised if you have trouble managing blood glucose for up to a week after.
Even type 2's may need to refuel during exercise. Type 2's have glycogen stores just like everyone else. If they run out, they're going to bonk just as hard as anyone else. If you're type 2 and are going for a ride that's 2+ or 3+ hours long (and are not on keto or some other restrictive diet), it's a good idea to carry some carbs or have a rest stop planned as a backup plan in case you bonk or want to prevent a bonk.
Thank you! You are the voice of sanity here, but alas, I think you'll probably be ignored.
Part of the issue here is that there's a lot of quack-marketing going on on the subject generally, and there's also a tendency to turn anything that MIGHT be related to diet into a morality play.
Likes For livedarklions:
05-25-23, 10:18 AM
#29
Senior Member
Not sure its a myth. I'm not digging to deep into it, but you can research it yourself. Quick quote:
"Because of the largely unrestricted insulin signaling, hyperinsulinemia increases the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease and decreases health span and life expectancy. In epidemiological studies, high-dose insulin therapy is associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease".
High levels of insulin are associated with all of the metabolic conditions and weight gain/fat storage.
"Because of the largely unrestricted insulin signaling, hyperinsulinemia increases the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, and cardiovascular disease and decreases health span and life expectancy. In epidemiological studies, high-dose insulin therapy is associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease".
High levels of insulin are associated with all of the metabolic conditions and weight gain/fat storage.
Hyperinsulinemia likely causes obesity, type 2, cardiovascular disease etc. because too much insulin makes you hungry all the time. If it also causes hypo's and the following high's because of binging, well that's the real killer. Most damage is done, when you hypo and get a hyper right after when you fix it either consciously on unknowingly.
Insulin is the glucose transfer and storage hormone, so it directly follows that high insulin levels would lead to higher levels of fat storage.
My take (not an all-encompassing statement, I know everyone/situation is different) -
-In The years building up to a T2 diagnosis, the body is making more and more insulin to cover higher BG's due to insulin resistance. It produces more insulin until the point where it can't overcome the bodys resistance & high BG's are now a symptom of the problem.
-These high levels of insulin are contributing to high blood pressure, cholesterol issues, fat storage in all the wrong places, higher levels of insulin resistance - and possibly contributing to dementia and even Altheimer's
-In The years building up to a T2 diagnosis, the body is making more and more insulin to cover higher BG's due to insulin resistance. It produces more insulin until the point where it can't overcome the bodys resistance & high BG's are now a symptom of the problem.
-These high levels of insulin are contributing to high blood pressure, cholesterol issues, fat storage in all the wrong places, higher levels of insulin resistance - and possibly contributing to dementia and even Altheimer's
The vast majority of T2's still make insulin at the time of DX. Rather than adding more insulin to a system that is already overloaded with insulin just flat makes no sense to me. Get a meter, test 1 hour before, 1 and 2 hours after - learn what foods cause spikes in BG's - don't eat that food anymore.
Many T2 diabetics are learning this now - and it flat out works for a ton of people, not everyone - I understand... but docs will not tell you this, their first line of defense is meds/insulin vs lifestyle and diet changes. And I don't think this does anything positive for the patient to address long term care, treatment and even remission of the disease.
At least that's what I hear from my doctor wife and all her colleague friends. But what do they know. They only work in the field.
Likes For elcruxio:
10-20-23, 04:10 PM
#31
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 87
Bikes: 2018 Specialized Roll Elite
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times
in
31 Posts
I posted this thread back in May so here's a little update for anyone that might be interested. So since the 2nd week in December til now I use to take 4 shots a day. Fast forward til as of this week my A1c is now at 6.0, I lost 101 lbs (309 down to 209) and I only take one small shot a week and pretty much reversed my Diabetes. I have gone from a size 48 waist to lest than 36 inch. All I did was change my diet which is no fast food, eat smaller portions, very little grams of sugar intake and no soda. I do kayak fish on the weekends, ride my bike some on local rain trails and been disc golfing for about 1 month. I feel a whole lot better. My doctor is actually shocked and I now take no chlorestrol meds along with my only 1 shot a week. Never thought I could lose this much weight and get to where I'm at now but I have.
Last edited by wyd; 10-29-23 at 06:54 PM.
10-21-23, 06:07 AM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 923
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Liked 462 Times
in
256 Posts
I posted this thread back in May so here's a little update for anyone that might be interested. So since the 2nd6.0 week in December til now I use to take 4 shots a day. Fast forward til as of this week my A1c is now at 6.0, I lost 101 lbs (309 down to 209) and I only take one small shot a week and pretty much reversed my Diabetes. I have gone from a size 48 waist to lest than 36 inch. All I did was change my diet which is no fast food, eat smaller portions, very little grams of sugar intake and no soda. I do kayak fish on the weekends, ride my bike some on local rain trails and been disc golfing for about 1 month. I feel a whole lot better. My doctor is actually shocked and I now take no chlorestrol meds along with my only 1 shot a week. Never thought I could lose this much weight and get to where I'm at now but I have.
12-17-23, 02:08 PM
#33
Newbie
As a newbie here on the forum I've been reading through a lot of the threads and as a type 1 diabetic I found this one very interesting. I was diagnosed with diabetes in my mid 40's (LADA) with no history of it in my family. I was not overweight and was very active at work, heavy construction. It was a real learning curve as I knew nothing about it. Shortly after being diagnosed I went on shift work where my schedule was evenings and mid nights and usually a lot of double shifts. I was on a real roller coaster but finally got to where I was in pretty good control. After some pretty serious work injuries I retired and was pretty limited to my abilities to ride. After many surgeries I finally started to ride again and yes the addiction returned. I try to do 25 miles about 5 times a week and am working towards my goal of the Tour de Cure 63 mile ride in Orlando in March. I've developed Rheumatoid Arthritis and getting treatments from that now. I try not to let any of this stop me from riding and continue to push on. When I ride I always bring a bottle of water and a bottle of Gaterade. I also bring some a granola bar with me and usually stop for a break after 15 miles and have that if I'm getting low. I wear a CGM that works through my phone so I can see where I'm at as I ride. Diabetes is not a one size fits all disease and everyone is different. As one of my doctor's put it - no matter what you are in life, you are a diabetic first. Finding the right medication, exercise, and diet is a lot of work. Getting burned out from diabetes is very normal because it's with you all the time. Don't expect to take a pill or a shot and think that's all you have to do. I don't know a lot of people that are type 1's so reading this thread is good for me to get different people's prospective on this subject. I'll be going out of the country for 10 days starting tomorrow so I won't be able to read anyone's response to this after tomorrow morning, so Merry Christmas everyone and Happy Riding.
Likes For boomer58:
12-17-23, 11:35 PM
#34
Full Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Albuquerque NM USA
Posts: 482
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 215 Post(s)
Liked 299 Times
in
190 Posts
I posted this thread back in May so here's a little update for anyone that might be interested. So since the 2nd week in December til now I use to take 4 shots a day. Fast forward til as of this week my A1c is now at 6.0, I lost 101 lbs (309 down to 209) and I only take one small shot a week and pretty much reversed my Diabetes. I have gone from a size 48 waist to lest than 36 inch. All I did was change my diet which is no fast food, eat smaller portions, very little grams of sugar intake and no soda. I do kayak fish on the weekends, ride my bike some on local rain trails and been disc golfing for about 1 month. I feel a whole lot better. My doctor is actually shocked and I now take no chlorestrol meds along with my only 1 shot a week. Never thought I could lose this much weight and get to where I'm at now but I have.
Good job and keep on pedaling!
Likes For Mtracer:
12-18-23, 06:24 PM
#35
Full Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: georgia
Posts: 388
Bikes: Caloi MTB, Raleigh heritage international
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times
in
29 Posts
Too many of my relatives have died, or are suffering from T2D that i've made it a priority to never get it. My Mom's husband has lost a retina and absolutely refuses to stop eating carbs. Horrible to watch from afar but it is his life, his choice.
It's the number one 100% voluntary disease in the world. And the medical industry makes a fortune selling stuff to enable people to keep damaging themselves rather than address the root problem.
It's the number one 100% voluntary disease in the world. And the medical industry makes a fortune selling stuff to enable people to keep damaging themselves rather than address the root problem.
Likes For margoC:
12-19-23, 06:24 AM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Eastern Shore MD
Posts: 861
Bikes: Lemond Zurich/Trek ALR/Giant TCX/Sette CX1
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 553 Post(s)
Liked 747 Times
in
391 Posts
My directions from the doc were to take insulin and eat 45-60 grams of carbs per meal. Up to 180 grams of carbs per day**, offset by a lifetime of medicine(s) - both oral in injectable, a lifetime of needles and supplies, a lifetime of finger pricks and test strips...
**at the time of my diagnosis, 40 grams of carbs sent my BG's into the 300+ range. So eat 45-60 per meal**********??
And to be told flat out that the disease is progressive and will ultimately require more treatment.
Zero talk from my doc about carbs, insulin response, insulin resistance and how it works - zero. All the talk was about meds and more meds.
Luckily, I had some clue as to how foods worked and what the macro's were about.
Completely on my own, against the wishes of my docs - I figured out how to treat the disease without meds. Not only treat the disease but put it into full remission.
So, 4+ years now of normal A1c, normal fasting numbers... and zero meds, zero needles, zero finger pricks (I do spot test just to baseline)...
The medical industry may not be forcing people at gunpoint - but their solution isn't helping people to eat better or teaching them how to eat better.
12-19-23, 10:58 AM
#38
Full Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: georgia
Posts: 388
Bikes: Caloi MTB, Raleigh heritage international
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked 58 Times
in
29 Posts
Nope, not them either
People can choose between convenience and real food. And before someone says junk food is cheaper, save it.
I go to the grocery store with a friend sometimes. I mostly get real food, like fresh or frozen produce, and other real food. Her family gets stuff in boxes and other processed food. Her weekly bill isn't less than mine.
And it shows in other ways, we are about the same age, I drop her off at the door because it's too much trouble for her to walk. The family seems much older than me.
Another phenomena, unhealthy people addicted to junk are very picky about what they eat. I think it's because when I took home-ec and learned about nutrition I learned to choose and like healthy real food.
I go to the grocery store with a friend sometimes. I mostly get real food, like fresh or frozen produce, and other real food. Her family gets stuff in boxes and other processed food. Her weekly bill isn't less than mine.
And it shows in other ways, we are about the same age, I drop her off at the door because it's too much trouble for her to walk. The family seems much older than me.
Another phenomena, unhealthy people addicted to junk are very picky about what they eat. I think it's because when I took home-ec and learned about nutrition I learned to choose and like healthy real food.
12-30-23, 10:32 PM
#39
Newbie
Now that we got all the reasons why we are diabetics figured out, just wondering how do you guys and gals wear your pumps when riding ? I find my pump clipped in to my shorts can be a little uncomfortable as I ride. I'm thinking about some kind of fanny pack setup that I can wear with my pump in it and also has room for some snacks and glucose tabs. As always, I appreciate your opinions and advice, boomer.
04-15-24, 02:24 PM
#40
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Antioch, CA
Posts: 4
Bikes: Now:''08 Reliegh Cruiser, Sold:'11 Trek Evo 7 & '93 GT RTS-1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
This will sound snarky but it isn't meant to be. Diabetes has an onset of 10 years. No one is ever 'new to it'. If you want to increase your activity level to burn additional calories that's a good thing. So burn away. You'd have to be on some kind of Century (100 miles) event to be in such a big calorie deficit to have to worry about blood sugar levels. So don't. This advice applies to people treating their Diabetes with diet and exercise. If you are on medication then you also have been given glucose tablets or have been advised to keep sugar candy close at hand. Follow doctors advice and you'll be fine.
Type I diabetic here, cancer treatment side effects (opdivo and yervoy cocktail) took out my pancreas in a month.
My normal route is a 12 mile round trip ride. I eat a decent meal before the ride and by the time I get to my turn around point my blood sugar levels are crashing downward so I must eat right away or I'll be laying on the sidewalk. I plan on mounting my meter on my bars and then snack more often which would be a safer option. While I have a formula for carbs vs walking, I have not made one for carbs vs riding yet.
No insulin pump for me, I just wear my Dexcom meter to give me my blood sugar levels. In fact I don't think I've taken my insulin on a ride with me since I know I'll be burning the carbs while riding.
Likes For Mike94531:
04-16-24, 07:30 AM
#41
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 87
Bikes: 2018 Specialized Roll Elite
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times
in
31 Posts
A new update. Come July 1st my doctor is taking me off my last little bit of insulin I take once a week. My A1c is now down to 5.8 and my weight is down 110lbs in 15 months by just diet change. I couldn't be happier as I haven't been 199lbs in 24 years. I feel a lot better and overall and super happy with the results and getting back to not taking any shots. My whole journey will have taken 18 months to go from when I when in the hospital in December 2022 with a A1c at 14 and my glucose was 900 and had Ketoacidosis and was 8 hours from dying is what the doctors said. Today my A1c is 5.8, weight is 199 to 205 now and going off the insulin in July. Never thought I could do this but I have and been able to stay my course. Was told I would be on insulin all the time and now soon to be none. My doctor, family and friends couldn't be more pleased. Now I will just make sure I keep doing what I do and I won't ever be going back to the way I use to me.
Likes For wyd:
04-16-24, 05:04 PM
#42
Newbie
Wyd - So glad to hear about your progress. I have known some diabetics who think that by taking a shot or a pill they can eat a couple eclairs or donuts on their way to the McDonalds for a big mac. I look at bicycling as a perfect exercise for me as I am doing something that I love and getting a great workout. I do not have to compete against anyone but myself. I will never be a Lemond or Armstrong or anything close to the people on here that ride a lot. I am comfortable doing a 40 - 50 mile ride and feel great doing it. You should be very proud of yourself for your journey. Congratulations and thank you for sharing your story, boomer.
Likes For boomer58:
04-17-24, 07:42 AM
#43
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 87
Bikes: 2018 Specialized Roll Elite
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times
in
31 Posts
Wyd - So glad to hear about your progress. I have known some diabetics who think that by taking a shot or a pill they can eat a couple eclairs or donuts on their way to the McDonalds for a big mac. I look at bicycling as a perfect exercise for me as I am doing something that I love and getting a great workout. I do not have to compete against anyone but myself. I will never be a Lemond or Armstrong or anything close to the people on here that ride a lot. I am comfortable doing a 40 - 50 mile ride and feel great doing it. You should be very proud of yourself for your journey. Congratulations and thank you for sharing your story, boomer.
04-17-24, 08:27 AM
#45
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 87
Bikes: 2018 Specialized Roll Elite
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times
in
31 Posts
Yeah I keep those to a minimum. When I do eat any of those I keep it to a small portion vs the old me would eat as much as I wanted. The big things that have worked for me have been I only eat 5 to 6 grams of sugar per meal, I now have portion control, no soda, don't eat after 7pm and eat more protein and veggies.. Keep my calorie count 1500 to 1800 a day but normally closer to the 1500 side of things. Been working great for me but I do understand everyone will have to adjust to what works for them but for me that's how I lost all my weight and getting off all insulin.
